• SONAR
  • Change of focus... (p.3)
2016/05/01 19:52:58
dannyjmusic
Hey Craig...one more thing...I would love to have more funtionality in using video...being able to import mp4 files, which are standard these days...Sonar doesn't seem to like them...and being able to slide them back and forth on the timeline like audio, and maybe even to split them into pieces. It would be really helpful when writing to video. 
Video is so big these days...a lot of people are wanting to add music to video for YouTube, so i think it would be well received. I've been fighting scoring to video for 10-15 years and the video functionality hasn't changed much at all.
Thanks again!
2016/05/02 06:02:15
Kylotan
I can't guess what the developers actually intend but my experience is definitely that in the last few years Sonar has focused on being a digital mix console for the PC rather than a general purpose MIDI and audio editing tool. Almost all the significant features and additions have been aimed at people who track large blocks of pre-written audio and then want to tweak and edit it. The ProChannel, Drum Replacer, VocalSync, Mix Recall, Patch Points/Aux Tracks, Style Dials, tons of effects chains and templates, and more. What did we get for songwriters and arrangements? Onscreen Virtual Controller?, ...er.... some sample and loop packs... er... Pattern Tool perhaps... that's about it.
But perhaps worse is how this forum sees a constant churn of "how do I perform basic task <X> that is simple in <other DAW Y>", such as moving or copying a section of the song to somewhere else, or even just being able to delete a section of the song reliably. It comes up time after time and there doesn't seem to be any movement towards even fixing this basic functionality, never mind adding advanced features that songwriters would benefit from.
 
So, I'd say you can draw your own conclusions.
 
Anderton
It would probably be helpful if someone presented a specific list of desired functionality for songwriting. So far all I keep seeing mentioned is an arranger track a la Cubase, and a more sophisticated staff view. Also break these down into audio functions and MIDI functions. The other sense I get it most people are talking specifically about MIDI, but I could be wrong...



Cakewalk need to just start acting on some of the things that have been said over the last few years while they've been supplying mix engineers with new toys monthly. I don't think when we say 'songwriting tools' we mean low-level stuff like harmony generators or rhyming dictionaries or whatever. Personally, I just mean 'tools that let me use Sonar during songwriting', instead of the status quo where Sonar punishes you for changing a song once you've started recording it.
 
Yes, a proper arranger track like Cubase or Studio One would be great, and especially the S1 scratch pads, but even just something like the old Cubase Play Order system would be a step up, or just a more versatile loop system (allowing the equivalent of D.S. Al Coda and the like). Anything to work in a non-linear way, to let me see which sections go where, to let me quickly and easily double or halve the length of a section, to see how something is going to flow before committing to keeping that structure.
 
But even if they never did any of this, if they just fixed the editing so it was easy and reliable to quickly drag and drop sections around and delete from the middle of a track, lots of us would just use it that way. But even that is currently a real hassle.
 
And don't get me started on how hostile Take Lanes are to even the simplest of attempts to move sections within a song. If I have the audacity to move sections around where there are existing take lanes, boom, I get even more take lanes. Sometimes it'll spread what used to be 3 clips in one take lane out into 3 separate take lanes, just to be sure. It's a complete productivity disaster. People on here say "always work with the Take Lanes open and specifically record into a lane", so I do, and it gets progressively more and more unwieldy as Sonar creates more lanes without us asking for them, and they've steadfastly refused to add the old 'rebuild layers' that's been gone for seven years because f*ck songwriters who want to move things after they're recorded, right? Should have just written the song beforehand and recorded it into Sonar in full takes (because that's the only way that the comping feature acts in anything resembling a sane manner).
 
Cakewalk either need to address these flaws, or add new functionality that sidesteps them and provides a different workflow for songwriters.
2016/05/02 07:18:02
tenfoot
On the the hand, so many perceived funcionality 'issues' in Sonar could so easily be avoided if people actually read the manual.
 
2016/05/02 07:47:13
icontakt
Top 3 areas that need fixes and enhancements (which will make songwriting much easier):
 
1. Take lanes
2. PRV Controller lanes
3. Automation lanes
 
For details, please visit the Feedback Loop forum section.
 
2016/05/02 10:08:44
Anderton
The OP was not talking about fixes to existing features, but about new tools for songwriting ("I see lot of new tools that have come out and/or are due to come out, but none seem to be focused on actual songwriting"). I was asking about the nature of these tools and what they would do. It would be helpful if people offered some specific examples because then something specific could be proposed to Cakewalk. Diverting the thread to issues that already exist and are known will not help define new tools for songwriting.
 
I should add that in addition to a chord track, a few people have picked up on my request for a "drum machine mode" for MIDI. That would be very useful for creating beats as an alternative to the step sequencer.
2016/05/02 10:29:37
icontakt
Maybe the OP should clarify what "songwriting" means and if what's needed for his songwriting is only new "tools."
For example, this request has been supported by 43 people so far and it definitely helps songwriting. But it's not a tool. It's a feature. And one Baker even said in some other thread that they often consider implementing it. I find it difficult to understand why Add Track was prioritized over it. 
2016/05/02 10:33:31
Kylotan
Anderton
The OP was not talking about fixes to existing features, but about new tools for songwriting ("I see lot of new tools that have come out and/or are due to come out, but none seem to be focused on actual songwriting").



I read it differently; the OP doesn't seem to be asking for 'tools for songwriting', but has noted their absence and is taking it as an implicit admission from Cakewalk that performing songwriting within Sonar is obviously low on their list of priorities. I think the failure to fix basic functionality that is necessary for songwriting is another large piece of evidence that supports this viewpoint.
2016/05/02 10:35:36
Kylotan
tenfoot
On the the hand, so many perceived funcionality 'issues' in Sonar could so easily be avoided if people actually read the manual.



No, mostly it's a mixture of bugs and an 'intended' workflow that is designed for mix engineers rather than songwriters.
2016/05/02 11:39:27
Anderton
icontaktI find it difficult to understand why Add Track was prioritized over it. 

 
I presume it's because the Tempo Extraction, LP EQ, LP MB, Help Module, and TH3 VST Persistence Compatibility were all in development during that time, and Add Track (which has been on their to-do list for a long time based on watching users who were getting started with SONAR) was something relative easy to implement while all those other "difficult" developments were occurring.
 
Anyway it seems I'm not going to get an answer about new "tools," so I'll move on. I was hoping there were more ideas waiting in the wings like chord tracks or whatever. Meanwhile, per the request I'll write up the Chord Library and how I use it in songwriting. I've found it tremendously helpful; several of the songs on my YouTube channel would not have been written without it. 
2016/05/02 11:47:21
tenfoot
Kylotan
No, mostly it's a mixture of bugs and an 'intended' workflow that is designed for mix engineers rather than songwriters.



 
I cannot conceive of separating these two roles: now days many if not most song writers are producer/engineers, and vice versa. That is the beauty of affordable DAW's. 
 
I guess Sonar's workflow suits some more than others, but that will be true of any subjective choice.
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