2016/04/17 00:11:25
brian brock
I still can not believe that cakewalk removed layers from sonar. I don't like the new thing and the more I use it the more unwelcoming I feel toward it.

I also find the removal of the stereo/mono switch to the track inspector to be a bewildering choice.

Sucks for me because I still use sonar for a lot of things.
2016/04/17 00:38:01
John
I use Sonar for a lot of things too yet I have no issue with either of your issues. Because the stereo/mono switch is in the inspector it is always visible as long as you have the inspector. Where in the track header it was dependent on the vertical zoom of the track to see it as well as the width of the header. I never liked layers so lanes are welcomed by me. Before they came out I wasn't sure I would like them. It turns out I like them very much. 
2016/04/17 02:04:28
icontakt
brian brock
I don't like the new thing and the more I use it the more unwelcoming I feel toward it.

 
Any specific reason?
2016/04/18 11:25:44
brian brock
I find that in order to cross fade between two clips I have to collapse the lanes so that I can drag one clip over the other manually. There is too much fiddly half-automatic stuff going on when the lanes are expanded. The old system allowed me to manage the clips to my satisfaction.

i just hope cakewalk knows that they frustrate at least one person by arbitrarily changing these features without making the old functionality available as an option. I was looking into reinstalling 8.3 but it doesn't have melodyne integration.

The mono/stereo switch is less bothersome but more confounding, as you could edit the elements that were visible in track view, so that anyone who likes could easily guarantee that they never see it, but people who prefer not to display the inspector, which is generally fairly redundant by design, could see all functionality in the track view.
2016/04/18 23:14:00
Anderton
brian brock
I find that in order to cross fade between two clips I have to collapse the lanes so that I can drag one clip over the other manually.



That's not true. There are two ways to edit crossfades while clips are exposed in lanes.
 
  • Use the Edit tool to create the crossfade manually by doing a fade-out on one clip and a fade-in on the other (you can choose any of the available fade curves).
  •  Take advantage of the fact that all DSP functions work with Take Lane clips (Gain, Normalize, Fade/Envelope, Transpose, etc.). If you select two takes by selecting one and then Ctrl-clicking the other, you can apply the DSP menu's Crossfade option. The clips don't even have to be in consecutive Take Lanes, as long as they overlap. Being DSP-based this is a destructive edit, so you can't go back and change it except by stepping back through the undo history, but it has the advantage of not being a manual fade-in/out process.
 
You might find this Sound on Sound column helpful. I also did a thread in this forum on Solutions for Using Take Lanes as Layers
2016/04/18 23:49:29
Keni
I can do most things in Lanes that I could in Layers, though I can't zoom them small/large enough and that's a royal pain when setting clip automation and such in Lane view as well as some tight edits where I can't see well enough even with a large monitor....
 
Other than that they're not much different to work with... Bloated space needs is big on my issues list and this one ranks at the top...
 
I believe Lanes opened up opportunities for other though so I'm glad for them... I too would have loved having both at the user's choice, but I understand the sifficulties in maintaining both...
 
Some issues are a learning curve with this, so I do know it took me a while to get used to it....
 
Now if they would only remove the zoom limitations and can forget about the problems created by this for me and work in peace! ;-)
 
2016/04/19 00:36:04
VariousArtist
I miss layers -- they were cool and unique to work with. I've learned to live without them by adapting but to be honest I don't use lanes as much as I thought I might. I tend to use multiple tracks.

But layers were cool and unique to Sonar...
2016/04/21 13:29:23
brian brock
Doing a fade out on one clip and a fade in on the other is more fiddly and less precise than collapsing the lanes and dragging one clip over the other.  With layers it was even more efficient - for example, I could do all my edits, leaving space on each clip for the crossfades, and then simple drag one layer over the other, automatically creating crossfades at each overlap.  I haven't found that to work well now.  In the old model, I could hover between clips on two different layers, and a crossfade cursor would appear, allowing me to crossfade two clips easily (I think it was about a 10ms crossfade).  Now, there does occasionally appear a crossfade cursor, which has some nice functionality, but it only appears sometimes and frankly I'm not sure what makes it show up.  Now, yes I could find that information out, but then I have to keep track of some computer programs temperament rather than simply choosing what clips I would like to hear when. 
 
Sure, yes, Sonar in its current incarnation can be used to make music.  I hereby merely register my continued dissatisfaction with the new system.  It's a big change to working methods which continues to cause headaches and which it seems to me is entirely unnecessary, since with the 'edit focus' menu (whatever the thing is that lets you choose between clips, midi notes, etc) it would be possible to allow the old layers functionality as an option.  The stereo/mono switch thing is even more of a headscratcher since it's not like it was hurting anyone to have the possibility of seeing it in the track view.
 
I have no use for destructively edited crossfades.
 
Thanks for listening.
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