• SONAR
  • [Solved] Importing Tempo Map from Melodyne...
2016/04/11 23:40:20
dantarbill
I started with a simple stereo guitar and vocal recording that came from the built in XY pair on a portable recorder...edited it so it started cleanly on beat one...and did the drag and drop thing.  It came up with a tempo map that kinda mostly fits the track...but it's double time.  The calculated tempo is around 150 to 160 bpm.  It really needs to be around 75 bpm.
 
Is there a way to "seed" Melodyne analysis engine with a more realistic target tempo at the outset so the output isn't off in OZ?
2016/04/12 00:27:31
noynekker
Dan . . . yes, double time ! . . . this exact thing was on my mind a few days ago when I finally got time to play with this new feature. I'm not using it in the same way as your example, but when I make my guitar a melodyne region FX clip, it works well and melodyne detects the tempo . . . until I drag it to the timeline, then it's 1/2 as long as it should be at the Sonar existing tempo ?
I'll admit I've only begun to test this feature out (I need to read the manual some more, wait, I can't find it in my manual yet ?)
In my case the Sonar tempo was 187.39 bpm, and in Melodyne's tempo options (Melodyne Studio 4) there are 3 buttons to choose:
1) Use the tempo grid detected by Melodyne (70.869 - 113.198 bpm)
2) Use the tempo grid from the DAW (189.394)
3) Set constant tempo grid:  93.073 BPM
 
I have to leave it on #1 . . . or dragging to the Sonar timeline cuts the clip to 1/2 size ?
Sorry, I don't have an answer to the question, but let me at least reassure you, there are now at least 2 of us that are confused about it.
2016/04/12 01:57:17
kevinwal
I don't own any of the fancy-schmancy Melodyne stuff beyond Essential, but I do recall a thread that mentioned that Melodyne Editor gives  you more options for dealing with these tempo detection ambiguities. I don't recall if it was more than what you get with Studio, however.
2016/04/12 02:59:29
anotherpaul
I had the opposite issue with melodyne assessing the track at 80 when it should of been 160 ish when using the drag to the timeline method.
What I did instead was to create a region fx of the track and then in the editor you can change the tempo to double or half etc and then set the tempo to that amount.
A bit of stuffing around but I don't know how to access melodyne from the timeline drag option.
It gets the tempo right most of the time and still easier than using audio snap to set the tempo.
I'm sure someone will understand how to do it simply .
 
2016/04/12 11:56:50
dantarbill
Ok...maybe there isn't an easy way to do this.
 
What would the hard way be?  Has there already been a discussion of how to go into Melodyne and produce something that can be imported into SPlat and used as a tempo map?
 
(It looks like this thread...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Melodyne-Tempo-Drag-n-drop-integration-a-serious-time-saver-Thank-you-Bakers-m3398876.aspx
...might be getting close to answering this...but hasn't gotten there yet.)
2016/04/12 23:12:41
dantarbill
Ok...
 
I've opened this in the stand-alone editor and putzed with it until I have a tempo map (in Melodyne) that matches up with the performance quite nicely.  I even exported the tempo map as a MIDI file.
 
I tried dragging the .mid file to a new MIDI track in the SPlat project.  (Doesn't do anything)
How about dragging from SPlat media browser?  (Nope)
Ok...I'll do an explicit MIDI file import.  (Nada)
 
Hmm...so...I look a the event list for the track.  There's stuff there...for every time I tried to pull the file in.
I deleted it all and tried again (once) and got a Control 120 event for each of the 16 MIDI channels.
 
There's a lot more than that in the 9k MIDI file...just by looking at it with a Hex viewer.
 
 
What's the real actual procedure supposed to look like?
 
I know someone explained this before the drag n' drop functionality came about...so...where's the thread?
 
Is it something like opening the tempo map MIDI file in a brand new project and then pulling in the audio?
 
 
2016/04/13 12:01:44
Keni
I don't remember reading of using a midi track for this... It's all about dragging audio to the timeline I thought...

...and I too keep getting crazy double time maps when I've tried...

I can't afford editor, so I'm stuck with the minimal... My understanding is that you can drag clips for the timing, but cannot edit in time in essential and drag the corrected map...
2016/04/13 12:10:28
dantarbill
Ok...I discovered that the forum search function isn't completely broken.  There's this thread...
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Will-Sonar-integrate-with-Melodyne-4s-new-tempo-detection-m3355350.aspx
 
...where Vastman appears to have gone down the same rat hole I did.  The useful information is here...
 
PeterMc
p.s. To get the analyzed tempo into Sonar, you export the tempo map as a midi file, then open this file in a new Sonar project.

 
...and here...
 
scook
I do not believe tempo data is imported with a MIDI file. To load tempo data with a MIDI file, the file must be opened using File > Open.

 
Then Boydie expanded on Vastman's summarized procedure...
 
Boydie
 
Here is my version of the steps to add what has already been discovered:
  • export the free form piano part or parts as a wav file
  • bring up M4studio or editor's external desktop program
  • load the wav into M4... select all (don't know if this is necessary)
  • Click Edit, go to Temp at bottom, click Detect Tempo of Selection
  • File export, Tempo map... save it
  • Go to Sonar, Go to file open, and select the saved tempo map (the .mid file in "5" above)
  • It will import the tempo map... there will be no MIDI data but the timeline and tempo should change (if you open the Tempo view you can see the changes)
  • Add a MIDI instrument and use Piano Roll (or your preferred method) to add a click track - I used a hi-hat on each beat of the bar, groove clipped it and dragged it for the whole length of the song
  • Select the MIDI track a click on "Copy Special" to ensure that copy tempo and meter changes (and any other options you want) are selected
  • Then go to your original song and use "Paste Special" to carefully paste it in at the beginning... ensuring that you have "tempo changes" and other things you want selected
  • VOILA! - your original project will now have the tempo map applied

 
There were also comments intimating that this was an interim solution...however...even after the drag n' drop implementation, it remains important to know how the "hard way" is supposed to work when the "easy way" fails.
 
Many thanks to all those who provided useful and helpful comments on this thread!
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