MIDI wish list - but before I do I should mention that I can get by with Sonar, I've tried most if not all of the other DAWs, and it causes me the fewest headaches, which is something I guess<G>. Cubase is a step or two ahead of the pack for MIDI, but dang, the rest of it makes my head explode! I am anxiously awaiting some rumored improvements in MIDI for Studio One V3, we'll see...

and now...

1) better drawing tools in the PRV controller pane - the only way I can get decent curves for continuous controllers is to 'play' them in - which I guess is not all bad, but for tweaks it would be nice to have better drawing tools.
 
2) dedicated pane - or maybe there is even a better way - to control articulations. What I'd like, and I can do this to a degree with drum maps - so maybe that's the starting point - is the ability to send CC messages from widgets, so there could be buttons along the left vertical axis, and they would send the necessary message. This has a couple of benefits - CCs can be chased, key switches can't, and CCs won't mess up the notation, key switches do, just for starters. There are still some libraries and VSTs that don't let you choose how you select articulations, so a means to translate CC to key switch, and vica-versa, would have to be a component of this tool.
 
This can be extended to all VST Instruments, while master.ins does allow you to create patch maps, managing them is non-trivial. When the world was filled with external hardware synths it was understandable (although MIDI Quest did make it a lot easier), but these days most of my synths are plug-ins, and I can't believe there  is no way to query them!
 
3) any to any routing, both destructive and non-destructive. For those with a little gray in their hair I'm thinking about the model used in Bars&Pipes (an Amiga sequencer).

4) bring back CAL support, or find a new scripting language - no matter how many MFX tools are developed there will always be something else someone needs. Even better, create hooks for Max, PD, Bidule, or even LUA? We know this works because SoundQuest did it with Infinity. Bidule lets you do this now, but it is clumsy - or perhaps I'm missing something, or maybe it is just the limited routing?
 
I guess you could also ask for something akin to "Expression Maps" - but try as I might (admittedly using a demo version) I've just not found them to be all that useful. I did get a chance to play with SkiSwitcher2 in Logic recently, and that is another potential avenue... maybe?

If I were to distill this down to functions instead of features:
1)  the ability to draw periodic and arbitrary curves
2) the ability to manage articulations and patches
3) any-to-any routing
4) support to special functions or processors
 
Sonar is  deep (pun unavoidable), so it could well be that I am missing things, and that we can already do all these things. If so please feel free to make me feel silly!!

Thanks

azslow3

tenfoot

Sanderxpander
Thanks I'll try using that instead. If it works well my feature request is mainly a matter of reorganization - put a wuantize midi effect on every clip by default (set to zero strength perhaps) and put some sliders in the PRV or imspector. Although, does the quantize midi effect actually visibly move the notes? Sometimes that's quite helpful.

That would all certainly be great Sanderxpander. Unfortunately  the notes do not move when using the quantize plugin which I too think would be very useful. 

General MIDI plug-ins do unpredictable from Sonar perspective changes. In general, they can generate different result every time they run (like some Synth do, there was long thread about it and the result was patch points feature in Sonar). And so, in general it is not possible to show what some effect produce till it is applied. And every time it is applies, the result can be different. If they try to show that in PRV, every time you modify some note they re-render effect for the whole clip and you see all notes are changes. Can that be helpful? I do not think so. The only possible solution I can imagine is "freezing clip" with all local effects applied, so it function like "bounce" but with possibility to unfreeze and tune parameters/modify notes. But I guess that is not exactly what you want.
 
Another possibility is to introduce dedicated set of MIDI effects, so there behavior is known (for example they always produce the same output for any particular note). That can do the trick. Unfortunately what is going to happened we can see in audio "filters", introduced in Sonar long time ago. At some point they was converted to ProChannel. And while the effect on audio is exactly the same as from normal Audio FX, thanks to "very special" logic that part is quite buggy from many perspectives...

Well I was talking about quantize specifically. Unless you use a random element there, the result should be the same every time. I don't know if you've ever seen how Logic does this but it's really elegant. Basically it works like a combination between Sonar's quantize plugin and the actual quantize function - anything you do is instantly visible but it's entirely nondestructive. 

Sanderxpander
Well I was talking about quantize specifically. Unless you use a random element there, the result should be the same every time. I don't know if you've ever seen how Logic does this but it's really elegant. Basically it works like a combination between Sonar's quantize plugin and the actual quantize function - anything you do is instantly visible but it's entirely nondestructive.

Sorry, I am noob in DAWs world. I have not seen anything apart from Sonar. I have tried some trials but deleted them within an hour.
 

wst3
4) bring back CAL support, or find a new scripting language - no matter how many MFX tools are developed there will always be something else someone needs. Even better, create hooks for Max, PD, Bidule, or even LUA? We know this works because SoundQuest did it with Infinity. Bidule lets you do this now, but it is clumsy - or perhaps I'm missing something, or maybe it is just the limited routing?

As an ordinary user I have no control over CAL. But I was thinking about binding some scripting language with MFX. LUA looks reasonable (I have just visited there site for the first time). Do you have an interest in such project? I mean at least one "beta tester" is good to have to not feel myself lonely... As my other tools that is going to be free to use.

azslow3
As an ordinary user I have no control over CAL. But I was thinking about binding some scripting language with MFX. LUA looks reasonable (I have just visited there site for the first time). Do you have an interest in such project? I mean at least one "beta tester" is good to have to not feel myself lonely... As my other tools that is going to be free to use.

Absolutely - sign me up! And while I haven't done a lot of programming in the last few years, I did spend considerable time as a C programmer, and still tinker in PERL and LUA from time to time.

kb420
Why do I have to mention 3 weaknesses?  Who said that?  Was that suppose to be a prerequisite for posting on this thread?  Did I miss something?  Oh well, These are just my personal grievances but here goes:

 
Hi, I'm sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. I became extremely busy after my last post.
 
You said that Sonar is absolutely the worst when it comes to MIDI, and I thought that just one or two problems can't make it the worst and said you need to cite at three weaknesses. Only saying that it's the worst and needs to get better without giving some examples (this also applies to the OP) probably doesn't help CW determine what areas of MIDI to improve.
 
You might think that they should check the Feature & Request forum and read various MIDI-related requests posted there. I'll make it easy and list the current top 5 rated MIDI-related requests below. (To see the the ranking of FRs sorted by number of ratings in descending order, go to the F&I forum, select "From the beginning" from the Time Filter drop-down at the bottom, click "Filter" at the top of the threads and select "Rating DESC" under Order By). I excluded a request titled "Staff View - Fix The Bugs," because it's a request for bug fixes, not a feature request.
 
#1 An arrange window
http://forum.cakewalk.com/An-arrange-window-m3104937.aspx
 
#2 Staff View - Triplet handling
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Staff-View-Triplet-handling-m3152863.aspx
 
#3 A feature for those that write string arrangements (MIDI note chase)
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Features-Ideas-f76.aspx
 
#4 Chord Track for Sonar Platinum
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Chord-Track-for-Sonar-Platinum-m3160700.aspx
 
#5 Staff View - note duration icons
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Staff-View-note-duration-icons-m3152971.aspx
 

Among these, the only request that is similar (if not same) to what you mentioned in your three examples, if I'm not mistaken, is #1 (btw, the only feature I really want among these 5 is #3). PRV and Take lanes are not there. So, you can see that it's better to state what exactly you want to see improved and why when you post in a thread like this. From my experience, I can say that discussions, including begging, criticizing, etc. in this main forum is more effective in changing the Bakers' mind than just posting feature requests in the F&I forum and receiving several votes (if you're lucky).
 
I appreciate that you posted the three examples, CW now know what you really want. I have some other comments to make about things said in this thread, but I'll post them when I have more time.

+1 for making midi better
I don't think that Sonar's MIDI implementation is bad. There are some really nice and good things and some not so good one. But overall, it has many room for improvements. I have the feel, that MIDI is in product development of Sonar the most neglected.
As an orchestral based music composer for film I need a lot of midi and virtual instrument handling. I would like to see some really fundamental new features that makes the work with virtual instrument, especially with sample libraries, much easier. Something like Steinberg's VST-Expression, but much bettet, would be something on the top of my wish list.
But also some simple things could make life easier. For example, writing the note value into the bars of the prv could improve the overview and handling of notes. I don't think this is very complicated to do and I saw such feature requests years ago.
I don't think it's necessary to collect all the feature requests here. The most important part is our wish of better MIDI implementation to Sonar. So let's go bakers...
 
-Markus

williamcopper
Maybe other than getting everything to do with midi entry and editing fast, what I'd really love is a Sonar on a diet, get rid of all the crap that needs to be turned off in order to get work done, while keeping the mini-bar available for those who want to indulge optionally.   Do I really want an "amp-simulator" in every project (part of prochannel)?  No, it's absurd.     Do I want to dial in how much grunge to add to every project?  No.  Make it optional, exceptional.   Do I want a "tube", whatever that is, on every track?  Hell no.   Do I want a line in the PRV for every controller on every midi channel on every track?   NO NO NO.    I can appreciate that some people do want some of these things, but Let .  Them . Be . Optional !!....

Except for the PRV, I use none of the components you mention.   You can customize (streamline) Sonar quite a bit, save as a template and start every project from that. 

Kylotan
 

If you take a look at Studio One,  which is primarily a linear sequencer,  you still have a super flexible way of recording midi when you consider the Arranger Track and the Scratch Pad.  With the Arranger Track,  you can actually treat whole sections of a song like patterns in a hardware sequencer and string them together any way you want to on a Scratch Pad.  The Arranger Track and the Scratch Pad are new to Studio One 3,  and they are what really gained my attention.

 
This is where I'll be spending my money next time around. Ableton is probably not quite right for me, being biased towards electronic music and MIDI-first composition, but Studio One strikes a good balance.

I doubt you will regret that move, I never have, (the only regret you may have is that you never did it sooner) never looked back really (checked in every now and then over the last 6 months or so, but have uninstalled everything Sonar now), and don't miss a thing.
 
Now to switch off these damnable forum and thread subscriptions.

Feature Request - MIDI Patch Point ?  Or a MIDI-HUB ? [January 08]
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3348419
 
Arpeggiator pattern - loading new [December 20]
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3337784
 
Chord Track - Pattern Insert - Populate to MIDI [September 01]
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3280492

+ 1 for midi improvements