>>Do you really, truly believe
>>-- that people buy the software in order to complain about it, but never use it? Really?
No I didn't mean that at all. The vast majority of our users buy and use our software because it is a useful tool to them or lets them be more creative. I didn't imply that nobody has issues. You read what you wanted to read in my post.
 
>>-- that a) trying to make music with Sonar, and b) encountering Sonar bugs in the process, are somehow wholly unrelated?
Again that's not at all what I said. We have a specific place for reporting issues and discussing them in context. See below.
 
>>-- that the "primary objective" of the forum is not to talk about bugs, but rather, is to talk about how one >>makes music with Sonar (avoiding mentioning bugs)? (If so, a lot of folks apparently didn't get the memo, and >>you'd better take a machete to the vast majority of posts here, because they are about problems users have, >>to which they seek solutions by coming here.)
 
That is correct - the primary objective of the SONAR forum has always been to discuss the use of the software rather than bugs or general software development opinions. Here is the "memo" right on the forums landing page:
 
SONAR 
Discussion focused on the use of SONAR Producer, Studio, Essential and Base

 
Problem Reports
A place to document verified problem reports regarding the use of Cakewalk products.

 
As above we have specific places to discuss problem reports and a different place to discuss the use of the software. Here are some useful links to our forum guidelines for anyone who missed reading them.  
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Feedback-Loop-Handbook-Please-read-before-posting-m3151738.aspx
Welcome to the Feedback Loop! This area of the forum is here specifically for sharing your ideas and reproducible problems. We do ask that this area is kept on-topic and focused. Discussions and questions about products will be moved to the appropriate forum. First, a few ground rules:
Be courteous 
Be constructive 
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Code-of-Conduct-m3096118.aspx
 
These forums have a reputation of providing a friendly environment to get help with Cakewalk products, discuss ideas, and connect with other members. Much of this is because our members treat each other with respect and courtesy, and we are dedicated to continuing this tradition.
 

Notice in the list below that the words, "some" and "not always," occur regularly. If Cake had to have a team of QC sit there and click on every single possible combination of selections within features, whilst loading and changing through every 3rd party vendors plugins, to go with the afore mentioned every single combination of selections possible within the program? I have a feeling they'd need to charge about $2000 a year for membership to cover the staff required to do that.
 
Instead Cake (and every DAW) offer a cheaper option. In this case a $150 a year membership (or less if you sit out a cycle,) with the understanding that users may encounter some problems, but that when they do, Cake will look into it and role out fixes for those issues. If some of these outside software devs can deliver a program for the same price or cheaper, with as many features as Sonar (or indeed more?) and having to interact with a bunch of 3rd party stuff at the same time?... Then what are you waiting for? Please release this DAW of all DAWs, that you are capable of delivering! I'll be sure to come onto your forum and chew out your quality team for every small hiccup we users encounter...
 
Fixed issues in the upcoming release are:
 Drag copy (CTRL+drag) would not include controllers in the PRV when Select Controllers Along with Notes was enabled
 Waveforms were not displaying with Playback Timing Master set to None
 Scrolling didn’t always work as expected when editing events in Event List view
 Shift lasso was not extending selection in track view
 PRV Draw tool could behave unexpectedly with snap set to measure
 Bouncing MIDI clips would cause Controller data not to display in PRV
 Accessing properties dialog (right click) on notes would not work correctly in Staff View  Audition of MIDI FX did not always work
 Painting problems could occur when scrolling in Console View
 Sample entry in the Snap to Grid module would not work initially
 Edit select functions were not actually selecting clips under common conditions
 Cropped clips would not draw correctly when dragged in the Track view
 ProChannel EQ interface had inconsistencies
 PRV Lasso select could unexpectedly select both Piano roll notes and drum pane notes
 MIDI cross talk could occur on an un-armed and focused MIDI track during loop recording
 Clip waveform was not drawing correctly with tempo changes
 Drag select would fail if hidden tracks were present in the project
 MIDI input ports could unexpectedly re-route when devices are added.
 "Dock in multidock" keyboard shortcut didn’t always work
 ProChannel modules would not load correctly from a cloned track.
 Under some conditions drag selecting a clip could crash SONAR
 Selecting tracks could fail in Track View if the view was scrolled
 VST Time info was reporting incorrect values for the nanoseconds field
 Drag ordering in the ProChannel FX chain could have unpredictable results
 Media Browser would stop previewing after 60 seconds
 Long project name display issue with Start Screen
 Audio engine dropouts could occur under certain conditions
 Normalize and Gain would not work when applied to audio clip under certain conditions
 The draw tool would not draw over CC lines in the Piano Roll View.
 Redo of Style Dial insert would draw the wrong GUI.
 Sends were not feeding side chain plugins when first launching projects
 Loop recording with Patch Points could cause sync issues with delay-compensated plugins
 Playing through a tempo change in a project could cause DXi input echo to become delayed
 German translation needed fixes
 VST3 plugins were not processing mono interleave correctly
 Some step sequencer clips could cause Sonar to stop or hang during playback
 Insert problems could occur with Track and Template insert; inserting multiple tracks should now be much faster
 Some VST3s (example: AIR Loom) had a significant input echo delay
 Multi-out synths combined with allow arm changes led to performance problems
 Playing projects in Playlists had delays
 Synth input recording was not working properly with allow arm changes enabled
 Allow arm changes was not functioning for audio
 Some VST3 plug-ins when panned could cause silent audio output
 Recording MIDI data could crash with automation write enabled
 Nudging clips could cause clips to disappear
 Multi-channel audio output was not working correctly with Vienna Pro VST3
 Projects at idle were consuming CPU threads
 SONAR could hang when bouncing or exporting using real-time rendering.
 Delay compensated plug-ins could cause timing issues with MIDI playback
 Inserting Metric Halo plug-ins in FX bin could cause problems
 MIDI plug-in presets were not displaying in MIDI FX
 Audio export could cause crash when some hardware outs were muted
 Controller lanes would not update in PRV when switching between MIDI clips
 In some cases deleting synths from a synth rack could cause a crash
 Arpeggiator presets buttons would stop working after selecting other tracks
 SSL Nuendo VST3 plug-ins were not processing audio
 Drum Replacer would have inconsistent volumes during playback under certain scenarios
 Recurring scanning of certain plug-ins (i.e., iZotope RX and Ozone VSTs)
 
*sarcasm* I think it's pretty clear that obviously no one is working on bugs, fixes or quality control! And I question each and every one of the QC team! Why aren't you guys sitting there clicking back and forth at a rate that might never be done under normal circumstances, in every available combination of selections/features, with every available combination of plugin sets possible, until you cause an error?

I like it!  Lots of great stuff this year...   Now I guess we need to decide if we will pay again next year???

Doktor Avalanche

I'm a dev however  . . . . .  I do not work on cakewalk software

And a collective sigh of relief rolls across the forums . . . . . . then a 'Thank God for that' is uttered by all in unison . . . . .
 
 
 
 
Then the silence is shattered by a lone voice "You couldn't develop a cold in winter"
 
 
 

Seriously Folks ,
What The Hell is Wrong with some of you people ? 
This forum is not meant to be the Freaking Roman Colosseum on Gladiator fight night .  
For me this forum has always been a place to learn new things relating to music production while using SONAR .
Anyway , nobody here can Jack me up . When I want a dose of humility all I have to do is listen to some of the music I have done over the years … a person has got to learn somehow right ?
Blaming it on the tools is a poor excuse . 
 
Kenny

I'm with minority here. I can absolutely understand people who become crazy because of annoying bugs. And absolutely can't understand people who defend bugs, and yes, it is what many of you do.
Oh, it is not a bug. Oh, maybe it is bug, but very small. Oh, you must be doing something wrong. Oh, you must learn better. Oh, you should do it other way, because there is only one right way to do it. Oh, I never saw any bugs. Oh, the tool is perfect and all problems is in your head. Oh, you must be bad musician, so you can't do music, and that is why you are sitting here and write about bugs.
It is complete nonsense and waste of time. It looks stupid for me.

I can't be ars** to read a load of bickering. I just wanted to tack on the end here that I'm completely satisfied with Sonar, and the subscription model, and will of course be renewing.

I think we are better off.  I upgraded whenever a new version was released, and will now "renew my membership" each year, so there is little or no difference financially for me.  I do like being able to recommend the monthly scheme to students, so they can try out Sonar.  Most of them stay with it, or change to yearly after they see what it is capable of.
 
I think the monthly cycle is a great improvement, with new features and bug fixes coming in far greater numbers over the year, when compared to the previous model.  Just make a list for yourselves.
 
I welcome people reporting bugs, but do find a small, vocal minority's , barrack-room-lawyer badgering tiresome.  I post here far less than I used to because of it, and recommend this forum far less to my students as well.  It is the relentless nature of a very few forum members (one in particular) that bring this place down, and can not help improve either the software or this forum.
 
I hope Craig returns soon, but understand his taking a break - it would try the patience of a saint.  I also hope it improves before more people are put off, and we loose the interaction with dedicated and helpfull Cakewalk staff forever.

charlyg
Please remember, this is about repetition of the same things over and over, not every complaint from users. It is the attitude as well.
To imply there can be no or few negative comments is disingenuous. It is always easy to poke holes in a comment, and that is part of the issue. You miss the general point being made as you have found a perceived weakness in another "point" that wasn't made, so that rules ANY comment from that source invalid.

 
^^^This.^^^

I wasn't going to post in this thread because when it was very new it seemed to me there was only one possible answer. 
 
What some here are forgetting is that this past year has in a real sense seen nearly 12 years of development in less than one year. The monthly updates are a fantastic model for CW to have implemented.  The fact they kept it on track without dropping a month is a true milestone. I am in awe of how CW has managed this. I will with out a doubt re-up when it is time to do so.  
 
There has been talk of people "defending bugs". I know of no such thing from anyone. The notion is preposterous on its face. No one is defending bugs here or elsewhere. What people are saying is bugs are fact of life that can not be fully removed because as one bug is killed another one takes its place. This is true of Sonar and all other software. Basic understanding of this will help ones own outlook on life and perhaps add years to ones life. 
 
Look around the internet and read any forum that is about software and it will have tons of posts about guess what, bugs. Expecting software to completely be bug free is expecting the impossible. The best one can hope for is that under most user situations bugs are not an issue.
 
Those that keep harping on the same tired lines of there are bugs that need to be fixed will always have something to complain about.  Its a form of job security.  If its constantly a major part of all they talk about over time people will learn to tune them out. They lose the bully pulpit to repetition and familiarity. People will realize that they have heard that before and dismiss it as more of the same.
 
Please don't worry about Craig or Noel. They are tough and have seen a great deal worse. Also one would hope that this forum will continue to be a light to all those using Sonar. The original question by the OP was a good innocent one in which he was simply asking what others think now about the model CW proposed way back last year.
 
It seemed to me to a very easy question to answer. One not needing pages to get at a consensus. Yet here we are. I don't believe that those pointing out that bugs exist are trying to undermine CW or the morale of this forum. I believe they truly believe without them Sonar will deteriorate and it is their duty to always add some reference to a bug or two in any post that has the potential to be favorable to Sonar. Lest we forget!
 
This thread should be all about praise for CW and all the people behind the company. They have pulled off one of the most remarkable innovations in software history.