On a scale of 1 to 11 for missing the original points that were made here, I figure we have reached 11. It just goes to show that either.

a) The internet often can't handle any form of complexity, and all points must be turned into a boolean points.

b) If the internet can handle it then best to shout out a boolean point out really loud in the hope that people will adapt that boolean point and somehow talk about that than actual points raised.

c) If all else fails attempt to blow yourself up, your friends will hopefully rush in and repeat the boolean points that were never made for you.

d) Even better, people will start making the boolean point for the opposite case,then we finally are able to divide the discussion between good and evil, us and them, polarisation completed.

e) Process complete. We can question THEIR motivations. Witch!!! They probably don't make music. They are out to get our friends!! All they are moaning about is JUST bugs. They are making every trivial thing look bad. They are ruining the reputation of this software. What are their qualifications?

We now don't need to even discuss what was origianally brought up. All out war has removed any slight complexities in any points that were made. Like for instance..

"So in summary yup it's better, but something seriously needs to be done to improve the current situation. Bring on regular stability releases and schedule them so we know in advance is my opinion. The current model is a good start, please tweak it."

And

"Sure the monthly updates are better than X3 and before, sadly however the QA results seem to be about the same. I don't expect bakers to find every issue, QA is hard, the product is complex, it's impossible to find everything. Heck I did it as a job for several years in silicon valley, I should know, and I know part of the model has to be the customers end up being the beta testers, that's fine by me. It's a fact of life we all must deal with if we want good and cheap software"

I do love this forum sometimes... It can be quite a gladiator ring :)

(Edited)

I'm happy.

Another slab of typically self-absorbed waffle from the Dok up there.
 
No, it's not that the original point has been missed. The original point was disagreed with right back at the start. Which you, again, absolutely typically could not deal with.
 
Everyone knows your opinion by now. You are a pedant and a bore about it, and it's impossible to miss. Take a day off, for god's sake.

No they don't read them John. I've seen plenty of obvious references to me stating where I go wrong and then repeating the exact same point I've already made as though I don't agree with it... When I do. I would that's mostly down to people like you polarising... How can you say something was 'disagreed from the start'? You can say you disagree with it yourself fine, but you do not represent everybody's opinion here,and I certainly don't either.

The question was, "As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off?"
 
I'd say we are significantly better off.
 
Under the old model, we never knew (following a major release) exactly when or what bugs were going to be fixed, when if ever, new content/enhancements etc were going to be delivered.
 
This current model is sustainable and efficient, what more could anyone ask really, given the very finite nature of Cakewalk resources?

I think this had all been blown all out of proportion. I do not believe that anybody has said they do not recognize the existence of, or do not want bugs fixed. It should be possible to have a discussion, without people getting personal / offensive / (even) petty. It seems like (to me anyway) someone always has to bring it back to things that seems uncalled for. There is always someone a bit too aggressive, and someone a bit too touchy. What about a discussion on a civil level? I have seen it done...
Ps. I am not pointing fingers either way.
All the best.
PPs. I am much better of with this new model.

+1. I just restated the current model is a good start, recognised we all have to live with the position somewhat, and the situation is better than X3E, among other points. Straight away somebody states everybody has disagreed with this from the start.. I hope not. I assume he's just conviently skipped over that bit.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 
>>Do you really, truly believe
>>-- that people buy the software in order to complain about it, but never use it? Really?
No I didn't mean that at all. The vast majority of our users buy and use our software because it is a useful tool to them or lets them be more creative. I didn't imply that nobody has issues. You read what you wanted to read in my post.
 
>>-- that a) trying to make music with Sonar, and b) encountering Sonar bugs in the process, are somehow wholly unrelated?
Again that's not at all what I said. We have a specific place for reporting issues and discussing them in context. See below.
 
>>-- that the "primary objective" of the forum is not to talk about bugs, but rather, is to talk about how one >>makes music with Sonar (avoiding mentioning bugs)? (If so, a lot of folks apparently didn't get the memo, and >>you'd better take a machete to the vast majority of posts here, because they are about problems users have, >>to which they seek solutions by coming here.)
 
That is correct - the primary objective of the SONAR forum has always been to discuss the use of the software rather than bugs or general software development opinions. Here is the "memo" right on the forums landing page:
 
SONAR 
Discussion focused on the use of SONAR Producer, Studio, Essential and Base


Problem Reports
A place to document verified problem reports regarding the use of Cakewalk products.


As above we have specific places to discuss problem reports and a different place to discuss the use of the software. Here are some useful links to our forum guidelines for anyone who missed reading them.  


http://forum.cakewalk.com/Feedback-Loop-Handbook-Please-read-before-posting-m3151738.aspx
Welcome to the Feedback Loop! This area of the forum is here specifically for sharing your ideas and reproducible problems. We do ask that this area is kept on-topic and focused. Discussions and questions about products will be moved to the appropriate forum. First, a few ground rules:
Be courteous 
Be constructive 
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Code-of-Conduct-m3096118.aspx
 
These forums have a reputation of providing a friendly environment to get help with Cakewalk products, discuss ideas, and connect with other members. Much of this is because our members treat each other with respect and courtesy, and we are dedicated to continuing this tradition.
 

Noel, 
 
I did quote you directly and completely. I used your actual words. If they do not mean what you meant, perhaps you should say what you mean, and not something else.  
 
As for the rules re where to post about problems ... well, you are being very lawerly here, which is fair enough, citing the governing forum rules... but your selectiveness in doing so  undermines the credibility of your point. If what you say is true, then people "misuse" the forum left right and center by not posting in the right place, and I've not seen you object before ; in fact I've seen you respond to the subject, without saying "hey, wrong place". 
 
This particular thread of all places, asking what we think about the model, does seem to be a place to discuss what we think about the model, praise and criticism. The latter not surprisingly involves bugs.
 
Lastly, if disagree with someone specific, perhaps better to make that clear, or otherwise specify what you're objecting to, because as it stands, your use of "some people who" is vague; it could be interpreted as "all people who," this being the internet and all.
 
I also dislike it when the forums get nasty / personal. I have been annoyed by Doktor A at times (and I suppose vice-versa) but I do think he's made some valid points here.  I think they should be addressed on their own merits. 
 

lingyai
 
 
I have been annoyed by Doktor A at times (and I suppose vice-versa) but I do think he's made some valid points here.  I think they should be addressed on their own merits. 
 

They have been. He thinks the approach to updates should be different, and involve periods of feature lock and bug-fixing only. Cakewalk don't seem to agree. That's it. The rest is tedious repetition.

John T
They have been. He thinks the approach to updates should be different, and involve periods of feature lock and bug-fixing only. Cakewalk don't seem to agree. That's it. The rest is tedious repetition.

Er nope once again I said it should be 'tweaked', no issue with monthly updates.

Actually Cake has been doing this when major bugs have been found, and the latest update has a lot of bug fixes as well (fixes some old bugs anyway). We shall see how this plays out... I'm suggesting stability releases with feature freeze should be pubically and regularly scheduled,and there is too much of a backlog.

Cake really hasn't tackled this specific point at all head on.