• SONAR
  • Mr. Anderton, your EB5 DimPro freebies are phenomenal for metal. Thank you... (p.2)
2015/08/19 13:34:38
Tunerman
Graham at Recording Revolution commented on his fast style vs Pesaro's very slow style of mixing recently. 
Personally I find the faster I go the behind-er I get....
Looking forward 'One of ther days...' for your seminar!
2015/08/20 10:12:31
matt fresha
I also work on metal (and hard rock) and was looking at getting the EB5. Good to see that it works well. :)
 
Is there a clean DI patch with the commercial version?
2015/08/20 19:32:48
Anderton
Vern C
Is there a clean DI patch with the commercial version?

 
All the samples are 24-bit, recorded direct, one sample per note. There are eight programs for the eight pickup combinations. There are an additional eight "growl" programs that use the same samples, but take advantage of some of the processing in Dim Pro to rough up the sound a bit.
 
FWIW I always try to go for the most neutral, "honest" sound possible. That way you can process them any way you want - it's harder to add coloring to something that's already colored. There's always the temptation to include processing to make sounds more impressive, but I think SONAR users are probably a cut above average, so they probably want more control over the sound. 
 
I would recommend playing around with EQ for the EB5 patches to tailor it for the music in which they reside. I typically give it a bit of a "smile" curve.
 
2015/08/20 22:54:38
matt fresha
One other question/query:
 
Seeing as the OP said the EB5 programs are good for metal, I can only assume that there's round robins, or at least multiple velocity layers?
 
As far as EQing goes, I did EQ the freebie in DimPro, and then decided to see how it sounded when I processed it through my Darkglass B7K (yup) -> Studio Devil Virtual Bass Amp and it sounded really good.
2015/08/20 23:13:39
Anderton
Vern C
One other question/query:
 
Seeing as the OP said the EB5 programs are good for metal, I can only assume that there's round robins, or at least multiple velocity layers?



Actually, no. Again, I tend to do things a little differently. IMO a physical bass string is only one "sample." If you hit it harder, it gets brighter and the pitch might shift a bit if you hit it really hard. You can create these changes with a synthesis engine by tying velocity to brightness and judicious use of pitch envelopes. To my ears, that sounds more natural and "linear" than velocity-switching. You can't get away with that with all instruments, but you can to a great degree with bass.
 
I'm working on a sampled bass instrument now (Gibson Midtown bass) where I'm using Melodyne Editor to remove the pitch shift at the beginning of the note so it can be controlled entirely by the synth engine. So far the results are really promising in terms of creating a realistic plucked string sound that responds convincingly to velocity.
 
It also helps that when recording, engineers tend to even out the bass with compression. That removes a lot of the dynamics anyway. I've done multisampled basses, but never turned them into commercial products because I liked the sample+synthesis end result better.
 
With bass, I also program the mod wheel to to basically anything other than vibrato . That can give some real control over the sound.
 
FWIW this song uses the EB5 expansion pack. Several bass players have thought it was a physical bass, not a virtual one. (Also FWIW the "Rickenbacker 12-string" sound is from the Gibson Gold Top expansion pack, and all the amps are CA-X series amps.)
 

 
2015/08/21 13:27:07
Beepster
Anderton
Vern C
One other question/query:
 
Seeing as the OP said the EB5 programs are good for metal, I can only assume that there's round robins, or at least multiple velocity layers?



Actually, no. Again, I tend to do things a little differently. IMO a physical bass string is only one "sample." If you hit it harder, it gets brighter and the pitch might shift a bit if you hit it really hard. You can create these changes with a synthesis engine by tying velocity to brightness and judicious use of pitch envelopes. To my ears, that sounds more natural and "linear" than velocity-switching. You can't get away with that with all instruments, but you can to a great degree with bass.
 



Hi again, Craig. I am actually now a proud owner of these samples thanks to a generous forum friend (and for some reason a fan I guess... not sure how I deserve that but it's pretty awesome but thanks, buddy).
 
I was initially under the impression there were multi vel layers for these banks but based on this post I guess not. That's totally fine and I completely understand your reasoning. I am more interested in learning more about the technique you are referring to.
 
First... the reason the single vel layer thing screws up for my applications is that it's fast. Like we are talking 16-64th notes type fast and I am sure you are familiar with how that type of speed can sound. It's metal after all thus the speed. It sounds a little weird when a note is being ridden that fast for long periods without that extra complexity but with even the freebie pack (I have not inserted the full pack into my project yet) once it's in the mix you can't tell.
 
Still I was kind of hoping that there might be a few layers per sample but I like the idea you are talking about. It would work I just don't know how to program it.
 
As it so happens I had been pondering this type of thing in general and just posted a thread about it (but in a broader sense) here...
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/StrategiesTechniques-for-MANUALLY-humanizing-MIDI-notes-efficiently-in-Sonar-PRV-m3275430.aspx
 
So maybe if you get a chance you could toss some of your genius there or if you have specifics on the technique you are referring to regarding the EB5 pack here I think a lot of folks (especially me... ya I'm being selfish) would appreciate it.
 
Even better... maybe the stuff I'm asking about in the thread I posted could be a sweet full on article (or even vid) for us all to enjoy.
 
Title suggestion: "Humanizing MIDI In Sonar Like a BOSS!!!"
 
lol...
 
Either way, your posts in this thread have been helpful... as are the samples.
 
Cheers and thanks.
 
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