mudgel

Anderton
I'm pretty sure VoiceMeeter is Windows audio only, not ASIO. There are many non-ASIO solutions available for Windows.

Voicemeeter (Banana) (how's that for a version name) actually does ASIO.

Thanks for the correction. Good news!

Karyn
And thus the request to record the live audio from soft synths so that it Does sound the same on each playback.

As pointed out in this thread, there are many ways to do that without having to add another feature. I still think development time is better spent on fixes and features instead of duplication.

Woooe here comes the new staff view thread LOL.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I think you are missing something - its not just the random seed that is involved. If a synth has a patch with an ever varying oscillator that drives one or more of its components...

That is why I was writing "all generators", so ALL components which are not MIDI dependent but used in the sound generation, not only random seed.
 

However the start time of the oscillator is not guaranteed to be the same as when it was recorded so it will by definition sound different.

As you could notice, I was confused not my difference in notes and not by the different in sound from the same note sequence started later in time. But when I freeze the whole track/synth, everything is the same, including the distance from the time zero to each note in the whole project. So, in case "all generators" are reset at the beginning, freezing should produce the very same sound.
 
I am not expert in VST writing, I do not know which exact information is available to plug-in. And so I can not guess what is the best way to guarantee reproducibility if let say someone has started recording not at time zero. But I think some reasonable compromise is possible even in this case (I remember there are already quite some tricks implemented, for instrument changes for example, it is a kind of the same). But even if not, at least what is already recorded and not changed should sound the same. MIDI track for such "instrument" means nothing otherwise. "Record pads from time zero" sounds like a big limitation, but current situation is just "impossible"...
 

Anderton

Karyn
And thus the request to record the live audio from soft synths so that it Does sound the same on each playback.

As pointed out in this thread, there are many ways to do that without having to add another feature. I still think development time is better spent on fixes and features instead of duplication.

as pointed out in this thread, it's not duplication, but rather it's optimising workflow by making routing more flexible - but you can call it a feature if you (or marketing) like :-)
vote here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Realtime-internal-recording-m3099239.aspx
 

azslow3
As you could notice, I was confused not my difference in notes and not by the different in sound from the same note sequence started later in time. But when I freeze the whole track/synth, everything is the same, including the distance from the time zero to each note in the whole project. So, in case "all generators" are reset at the beginning, freezing should produce the very same sound.
 
I am not expert in VST writing, I do not know which exact information is available to plug-in. And so I can not guess what is the best way to guarantee reproducibility if let say someone has started recording not at time zero. But I think some reasonable compromise is possible even in this case (I remember there are already quite some tricks implemented, for instrument changes for example, it is a kind of the same). But even if not, at least what is already recorded and not changed should sound the same. MIDI track for such "instrument" means nothing otherwise. "Record pads from time zero" sounds like a big limitation, but current situation is just "impossible"...

 
I hear you. However as I mentioned in my post you can start recording at different times or even start playback at different times. There is no guarantee when you do so that the oscillator will start from the same spot. VST's are streamed data continuously so they do not get reset to zero each time you start playback from a different position like seeking on the transport. It would be unacceptable to do so since it causes other problems and even if we did it wouldn't solve this issue. When you freeze or bounce we start clean from the start point of the bounce. There is no guarantee that that time has anything to do with when the user recorded the part. This issue has nothing to do with VST. Its a general problem with any plugins that do time varying stuff dependent on the original start time. 
 
I would expect however in most cases that multiple fast bounces yield the same result for the actual notes since they are always starting from the same time - at least its that way with Z3TA. With the actual sound you can get subtle variations. Plugins (for better or worse) may not implement the randomness in a deterministic way so you could get variations...

azslow3
I am completely confused now... More that 50 years ago, when "randomness"  was introduced in military/scientific/economical modelling on computers, they have realized that a possibility to produce exactly the same random sequence is a must, to debug/prove/resurrect all related calculations. The implementation is pretty simple: computer (pseudo)random generators have a seed, which is just a number. If you start generator with the same seed, it will produce "random" but still the same sequence. You change the seed - the sequence is different.
 
MIDI recording has no big sense without reproducibility feature in case there is any "external" influence on the sound (not only "random", can be simple wave over time). The solution is still the same, just "reset to X" signal is needed (X is a preset setting) to make MIDI reproducible and so still usable is such cases.
 
Yet I have not found any discussions about that topic, nor "reset all internal generators" option in Z3TA documentation... Have I overseen something or the whole music world has still not adopted that simple concept to solve annoying (as seen in this thread) problem?

That would indeed solve the problem for me but I'm not aware that anyone has implemented it.
 
edit... missed Noel's post above so I guess it would not.

Beepster
Don't mistake my last post as dismissing the validity of these types of requests. It was about the seemingly persistent promotion of another DAW on this forum by one specific user. Not sure what that is all about. Just been seeing a lot of it.

I don't see the "Reaper can do it" posts as promoting Reaper.  I see it as rightfully pointing out that a competing product has the capability.
 
I would gladly trade everything Sonar has that Reaper is lacking in to have Sonar's UI bolted onto the front of Reaper.  THAT would be a most excellent starting point for opening up feature requests.  IMO, of course.
 
Other shoe & foot?  I can't believe how long Justin has allowed the UI & menu inconsistencies in Reaper go without being addressed.  There are some users that have done great themes, but I HATE relying on other users to provide me with functionality that I believe should be part of the core package.  THAT is the biggest reason I came back to Sonar after switching to Reaper for a couple of years.  The flow isn't there for me.  I LOVE the way I interact with Sonar.
 
Back to the OP.  I don't know the architecture of Sonar well enough to do more than guess, and my guess is that the code base is very old and complex, making things that seem simple to users not so simple to implement.
 
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would expect however in most cases that multiple fast bounces yield the same result for the actual notes since they are always starting from the same time - at least its that way with Z3TA. With the actual sound you can get subtle variations. Plugins (for better or worse) may not implement the randomness in a deterministic way so you could get variations...

 
Although note point 2...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2652130

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would expect however in most cases that multiple fast bounces yield the same result for the actual notes since they are always starting from the same time - at least its that way with Z3TA.

Z3TA+ 2. Factory Content. Pads. Waitress WRJ.
Record 20-30 second. Freeze once... Freeze second time... You will see what I mean without even listening anything.
 
To make arguments about the rest I have to look precisely into VST SDK.