Locked[Implemented] Realtime internal recording.

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perfectprint
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2014/10/03 19:15:56 (permalink)
4.88 (33)

[Implemented] Realtime internal recording.

I want to be able to set my virtual instruments outputs to various tracks and record audio direct to those tracks. No bouncing, no freezing, just recording straight audio from both instruments and other tracks. 
 
 
[troubleshooting scenario example deleted to focus on feature request]
 
THANK YOU CAKEWALK and the community for voting. This feature has now been added to the IPSWICH update.  
 
#1

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    Splat
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/03 19:29:46 (permalink)
    0
    Can you explain actually what happened? (what is the detail of "****ed up?"). A crash? From the sound of what you are writing you are saying that rendering with a dummy clip is just slow?
     
    Well this is something I've wanted anyway. 
     
    Cheers...
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/03 19:44:45

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    #2
    scook
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/03 19:32:07 (permalink)
    +3 (3)
    Alex, this is the Features & Idea forum. I believe the OP just wants to be able to record synth output in real time. It is essentially the same as wanting to record audio with effects applied. It is something which Cakewalk products have never done. Would be an interesting addition.
    post edited by scook - 2014/10/03 19:41:15
    #3
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/03 19:39:40 (permalink)
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    I'm just asking what he means by ***ked up, and I have backed up and agreed with his proposals Scook.
    Yup will edit that last line out as it is irrelevant sorry.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/03 19:51:46

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    #4
    perfectprint
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/03 19:49:52 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    parameters inside of my twisted tools ensemble were changed as sonar attempted to freeze the synth. the resulting audio was NOT what I originally had orchestrated.
     
    this was just the latest scenario that Sonar has shown its shortcomings by not having this simple feature - not looking for a workaround or alternate solution. just venting a little frustration and would really like to see it implemented.
     
     
    i believe internal real time routing and recording is a feature of most other DAW's, Ableton and Pro Tools for sure. It is a great resampling utility, it increases workflow, and all around makes a ton of sense.
    post edited by perfectprint - 2014/10/03 19:58:33

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    Splat
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/03 20:06:19 (permalink)
    0
    That's weird. Undo did nothing?
    If you have steps to reproduce it would be great if you could throw us a new thread here:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Problem-Reports-f77.aspx

    Anyway I still agree with the feature request.

    Cheera

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    #6
    gcolbert
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/06 11:22:30 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I realize that there are 'other and better' ways of recording MIDI/Synth that are available, but sometimes I just want to use my MIDI keyboard and a VSTi like I would if it were an external synth and record the audio in a project.  I would go as far as to argue that this is a common expectation that new users have of a DAW's capability.  I believe that this expectation is prevalent enough in new users that it even deserves a track type dedicated to it (real-time synth or some such) that records the audio output from a soft-synth.  This needs an easy-to-select (idiot-proof) setup that allows the midi/synth/audio routing to be an audio input like a microphone for a regular audio track.
     
     

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    #7
    stevec
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/06 14:11:20 (permalink)
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    Voted. Not something I'd use a lot, at least not in the past, but the more I play with Reaktor...
     

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    sharke
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 10:19:22 (permalink)
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    Yes I've run into this problem with both Reaktor grooveboxes and Geist (when I arrange the drum parts within Geist itself). The dummy MIDI track works but when I was using Reaktor grooveboxes a lot I had a workflow down whereby I'd export the section of the track I wanted and dragged the clip back into an audio track. But many people, myself included, have expressed a wish to be able to record the output of VSTi's onto an audio track. It seems like a no-brainer and in fact I was very surprised when I first discovered you couldn't do it. 

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    #9
    lawp
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 10:36:16 (permalink)
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    Historically it's been said that it is to prevent simpletons introducing feedback loops

    sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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    scook
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 11:04:49 (permalink)
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    it does that
    #11
    johnnyV
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 11:19:56 (permalink)
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    Stupidly enough this was one feature my POS sound blaster Audigy card could perform, it had a little GUI mixer. Each source had a few options and "REC" had the "What you hear" option. 
    I was so dumb I didn't know Cakewalk Guitar Studio had an Export feature, so I used to set Wave Lab in record mode and flip back to GS and hit play. I did this for a year! But this make me think I probably could have set an Audio track in Cakewalk to also record the output of the sound card. 
     
    I know a What you Hear option is probably not possible with a proper ASIO audio interface, but are there not a few interfaces that allow loop back in the software routing? 
     
    Anyhow I'll vote for this feature even though I don't think I'd use it, I think a lot of people would for live synth tweaking. I have this KVR freebie "Warp Delay"  that would be best to record that way. 

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    #12
    perfectprint
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 12:02:24 (permalink)
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    theres an excellent warning sound that occurs telling you have introduced a feedback loop! the fact that it may be possible to introduce one is not reason to exclude it. 
     
    the recorded to tracks can simply be muted or input echo turned off, either manually! or Sonar should do it automatically. its not an issue preventing the feature at all. as stated above, other DAW's can manage it. 
     
    @johnnyV: one of my computers actually has an EMU 0404 that uses Patchmix software which can introduce sends at its output. I am lucky enough to be able to use this send as a tracks input to record back into Sonar a single output in realtime. trouble is its only one track at a time, and furthermore its only on one of my computers. @lawp @scook there is no feedback loop unless input echo is turned on. 

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    #13
    scook
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 12:10:05 (permalink)
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    This is all true. It does not change the fact that Cakewalk has used feedback loops as a reason for not implementing this feature. There are other software solutions to the problem such as VoiceMeeter. I intentionally bought an interface with more I/O than I need just for this purpose. I also agree it would be a nice feature to have, along with real time effect recording in audio tracks.
    #14
    Splat
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2014/10/07 12:17:02 (permalink)
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    If Cakewalk implements it, it a treads onto Ableton territory. That can only be a good thing....
     
    Cheers..

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    SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output 2015/02/07 17:05:02 (permalink)
    +2 (1)
    As per:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2949976

    At present Sonar X3 cannot record plug-in effects or synth output, and this is a BIG deal for people who own synths or controllers with multiple outs. The most that can happen is a bounce which is far too time consuming in a lot of scenarios...   For use case and better understanding of the requirement please check:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Waveform-Preview-m2949348.aspx

    Please can we have more flexibility with outputs in Sonar ! :)

    Quotes that may persuade you:

    Scook: "SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output without a plug-in recorder in the FX bin to save the output to a wave file outside of SONAR or use a loopback through the audio interface." "The subject comes up every now and then, Cakewalk has never provided the capability. "

    Sanderxpander: "Ableton does this just fine and I've used it effectively in the past."

    CakeAlexS "I have given up on religion now I realise I cannot do this. I have come to the conclusion that there is no God and I will be spending more time with the womens 5 a side hockey team than with my Native Instruments devices".  

    If that doesn't persuade you nothing will... I make light of this but it is a serious request.
     
    (note there is a workground using a muted clip, see references).

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    #16
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output 2015/02/08 19:03:13 (permalink)
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    This request appears quite frequently, and despite their being potential workarounds, I think a lot of folks would appreciate this functionality.
     
    I too vote for it, 
     
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    #17
    Afrodrum
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    Re: SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output 2015/02/08 19:48:19 (permalink)
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    +1 Funny I was looking for that feature today. I wanted to output audio track (with TH2 on it) --> input of another audio track to record the movement of microphone. Perhaps you can automate that, I just don't know how.

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    #18
    scook
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    Re: SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output 2015/02/08 20:01:10 (permalink)
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    Microphone position can be bound to the smart controls in TH2 which in turn can be automated. The process is beyond the scope of this thread.
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    swamptooth
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    Re: SONAR cannot record plug-in effect or synth output 2015/02/14 14:44:01 (permalink)
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    This is a simple example of an application for this, though it is more useful for random parameter switching synths.
    http://youtu.be/IDCA2ybiOqU

     
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    Vas
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 15:47:48 (permalink)
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    gcolbert
    I realize that there are 'other and better' ways of recording MIDI/Synth that are available, but sometimes I just want to use my MIDI keyboard and a VSTi like I would if it were an external synth and record the audio in a project.  I would go as far as to argue that this is a common expectation that new users have of a DAW's capability.  I believe that this expectation is prevalent enough in new users that it even deserves a track type dedicated to it (real-time synth or some such) that records the audio output from a soft-synth.  This needs an easy-to-select (idiot-proof) setup that allows the midi/synth/audio routing to be an audio input like a microphone for a regular audio track.
     



    This is February 14 and so it cannot be an April Fools" joke. Hard to believe that in the year 2015 in one of the top DAW's a musician cannot record audio from the VSTi in real time. How the heck did I end up in this alternate universe. How do I change to the universe where logic prevails.
     
    Glad I read this thread as I would have spent hours and days trying to figure out how to record the audio on to a track in real time. It is obvious if I can record midi in real time why not also audio.
     
    If I have the waveform on a track I need not waste any time to do to what ever I want to do to it. In addition some parts of a synth are random and may not be exactly replicated in a record session afterwards.
     
    I bought Sonar 2015 three days ago and have not yet installed it. Is there a way to get a refund?
    post edited by Vas - 2015/02/14 16:15:53

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    #21
    swamptooth
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 16:27:48 (permalink)
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    Vas
    How do I change to the universe where logic prevails.
     



    Buy a mac?

     
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    #22
    gswitz
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 16:42:32 (permalink)
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    You can buy plugins that do this. They aren't expensive. Then you can capture the output to a file from any location in Sonar where you can put a VST.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #23
    Vas
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 17:08:51 (permalink)
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    gswitz
    You can buy plugins that do this. They aren't expensive. Then you can capture the output to a file from any location in Sonar where you can put a VST.


    Please show me the way.
     

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    #24
    Vas
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 17:09:58 (permalink)
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    I reviewed what is new in Sonar 2015
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
    and 
    http://blog.cakewalk.com/sonar-2015-under-the-hood-enhancements-and-fixes/
    and did not find anything new that will help to easily record a VSTi on a track in real time. Did I miss it?

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    #25
    Vas
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 17:16:59 (permalink)
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    swamptooth
    Vas
    How do I change to the universe where logic prevails.
     



    Buy a mac?



    You mean Logic.
    I mean common sense!
     
     

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    #26
    stevec
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 18:04:29 (permalink)
    0
    Have a look through this thread, including Silktone's custom sidechain plugin for this purpose...
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Plugin-now-available-Would-a-Sidechain-Mixer-plugin-be-useful-to-anyone-m3158831.aspx
     

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    #27
    gswitz
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/14 19:19:03 (permalink)
    0
    Vas
    gswitz
    You can buy plugins that do this. They aren't expensive. Then you can capture the output to a file from any location in Sonar where you can put a VST.

    Please show me the way.
     

    http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/product.php?id=MRecorder
     
    It's free.
     
    Once recorded, you'll have to import the wave file to the track of your choice.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #28
    Vas
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/15 19:06:40 (permalink)
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    I vote for the FR made by perfectprint. Below is not what he suggested but a workaround I spent many hours trying to get it to work and to simplify it.
     
    I am getting closer to understanding how to record from a VSTi. I am testing this on Sonar X3. I have been able to record the audio and view the waveform from the VSTi in real time without any plugins to help in this matter. Actually it is rather simple to do once you do this a couple of times.
     
    1. I select the VSTi and a track is opened. Solo is off. Arm record.
    2. I then I add an audio track.
    3. On the audio track select in the input of the VSTi which changes the track type.
    4. On the audio track I solo and enable the waveform.
    5. Now you can record the VSTi in real time form a midi keyboard controller.
    6. When done recording hit the freeze.
    7. Copy the waveform to another audio track. This audio clip now is independent.
    8. Unfreeze and the original waveform disappears and the Midi re-appears.
    9. Done but dang there must be an easier way.
     
    Is there something I am overlooking here? Any suggestions to improve on this procedure?
     
    PS. thanks to gswitz stevec and swamptooth for their input.

    Sonar Platinum, S1 3, FL Studio 12, Cubase 7.5, Komplete 8, Waves Gold, Melodyne Studio 4, Windows 10 - 64bit, GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2, Intel Xeon W3690, 12GB RAM, 23" 10-touch ViewSonic and iPad Air as midi controller, iConnectMIDI2+, FireBox, Shuttle Pro2
    #29
    brundlefly
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    Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/16 15:57:05 (permalink)
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    You're still not recording audio; You're recording MIDI, and the Freeze operation is generating the audio. The waveform preview is just a low-res visual representation of what the track meter is registering. You can get the same result by recording MIDI in a Simple Instrument track, and bouncing to another track. But you're still generating audio offline after the fact.
     
    There is a workaround involving bouncing the soft synth track to another track with Fast Bounce disabled, and Live Input enabled, but it's more trouble than it's worth.
     
    It'a best just to go ahead and create a loopback path, either with physical patching or in your interface's virtual mixer if it provides this functionaity.
     

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #30
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