Doktor Avalanche
I don't think though the solution is to go back to X3 release cycle, the solution is to improve the exisiting monthly cycle to concentrate disruption in specific areas whilst improvements are made. And there's little doubt cakewalk's regression testing needs improvement looking at the recent and rather obvious drum map bug. All this is doable....

Yes, all it takes is resources. But if the negativity from people who claim that the software is "unuseable" (seriously?) keeps others from upgrading - despite all the extremely positive accolades from the many customers who are using the "unuseable" software - the resources won't be there. It's ironic that the people who complain the loudest and most often have figured out the best way to make sure their complaints cannot be addressed.
 
This isn't to say people shouldn't complain about bugs; that's how bugs get fixed. But adding comments about Cakewalk being money-grubbing incompetents who make unuseable software and know nothing about software development is not only totally unfounded - and insulting to dedicated, experienced people who are working their butts off to do the right thing - they contribute nothing toward the goal of helping Cakewalk create better software.
 
There was one person in the forums (sorry, I forget who) who didn't upgrade to Cambridge because he read all the "horror stories" but then someone (mudgel, maybe?) pointed out how easy it was to roll back. So he upgraded and didn't have any problems. But all that time, he didn't take advantage of the new features because others (who in many cases had system-specific bugs) scared him off. 
 
There are plenty of posts from people who think the monthly way of doing things is far superior. But they make their point and go back to making music. They don't feel compelled have to say over and over again how great it is.
 
Look at the Drum Replacer. Several threads were started about how great it is. The threads that were started about problems have almost all been solved because the issues were trivial or pilot error. And there have been requests for additional features. Too bad you'll have to wait a year for them to be implemented...no, wait. It may only be a month or two. My bad.

Doktor Avalanche
Look over there...

I apologize profusely for addressing a comment from the person who created this thread, while remaining totally within the OP's context.
 
Kylotan is critical and often negative, but he's far from dumb and I thought he would have an interest in a) why it's getting ever more difficult to create bug-free software, and b) why more frequent releases can help address that issue. It has certainly helped Apple, which is why what I said was totally relevant. Or maybe you'd prefer to wait a year for Apple to solve some pretty serious issues. Be my guest. I update the second Apple releases something, and the same with Cakewalk. The only difference is Cakewalk lets you roll back.

 

Anderton
But if the negativity from people who claim that the software is "unuseable" (seriously?) keeps others from upgrading - despite all the extremely positive accolades from the many customers who are using the "unuseable" software - the resources won't be there. It's ironic that the people who complain the loudest and most often have figured out the best way to make sure their complaints cannot be addressed.

I don't think it was your intention at all, but by referencing my quote above it could appear that you are referring to me. I don't tend to go to those extremes, although we could always start rumours...

Doktor Avalanche
Look over there...

Anderton
 Or maybe you'd prefer to wait a year for Apple to solve some pretty serious issues. Be my guest. I update the second Apple releases something, and the same with Cakewalk. The only difference is Cakewalk lets you roll back.

 
As I've said before, again I have no issues with the monthly cycle (I have suggestions on now it can be improved to reduce regression issues), the only Apple I own is right now in my mouth. Or perhaps you were referring to him... Not sure. Where did Apple come from?

This thread sort of embodies the shift in the forums for me... those motivated by self-gain, the sycophants, and the poor end user trying to make a valid point. I am not as shocked as some to see a reduction in the number of regular posters.
 
If someone voices an issue they often get badgered until they either give up or cave in. Something to bear in mind with this "strategy" is that those people are paying the "self-gainers" salaries. The true "power" lies in the poor end user's wallet, and when they go "silent" that is a very bad sign.

Reality check: Everything presented here is a fact except for the second to last sentence, which is an opinion.
 
Owners of X3 Producer could upgrade to Platinum for $149. They therefore obtained what would have been X4, but also, had the option to receive bug fixes, features, content, and enhancements for a year at no additional cost. Basically, they were getting X4 and what would have become X5 for $149. They also had a full year to evaluate the program, which would provide useful background information for making a decision on whether to renew or not at the end of a year.
 
Furthermore, unlike the previous model where bug fixes stopped at a certain point, bug fixes became a continuous, ongoing process.
 
With this system, users had more options than ever before:
 

• They didn't have to update from "X4" if they didn't want to.
• They could update every time there was a release.
• They could update when they felt like it, for example, when there was down time in the studio and they had time to learn the new features.
• They could do any combination of the above, including rolling back the program itself and individual elements.
• They could wait a year and download a year's worth of updates at one time.

 
Before anyone says "look over there," here's how the above relates to the OP. The concern is whether the subscription [sic] model with a monthly release schedule affects reliability negatively. Downloading a monthly update is optional, so if you feel that downloading monthly patches leads to less reliability, download them when you feel any bugs that affect your workflow have been fixed (and roll back if they haven't). Or download quarterly, or yearly, or when there's a lunar eclipse, or whatever. (Granted there is no option to download bug fixes a la carte, but that didn't exist under the old model either - when you applied a patch, you applied the entire patch. So there's no difference there in terms of "choosing" your stability.)
 
My opinion is that bugs are being fixed at a much faster rate than new bugs are cropping up, that unanticipated bugs caused by other fixes are being identified (the community is very helpful in that respect) and fixed much more rapidly, and I attribute this to the monthly release schedule.
 
I am willing to put up with a few errant bugs every month in return for a platform that I find through constant use is becoming increasingly more functional and stable with each release.

Doktor Avalanche
Where did Apple come from?

As an example of a a) a company that does regular updates, many closer together than a month; b) a company that despite having virtually unlimited resources introduces bugs with sufficient regularity that frequent updates are needed; and c) how this approach has benefited consumers of Apple products. I think it's very relevant to the discussion at hand, because they've already set a precedent and amassed experience that gives context for what Cakewalk is doing: They are making more frequent releases, introducing bugs due to other bug fixes, but fixing them more rapidly. They have been doing this for longer than Cakewalk. I thought some people (obviously not you, I get that) would be interested in how this experiment has panned out with another company, which so far, seems to parallel Cakewalk's. The conclusion I draw from it is that more frequent updates can impact reliability, but that fixes happen sooner. That seems to be what's happening with SONAR as well.

mettelus
This thread sort of embodies the shift in the forums for me... those motivated by self-gain, the sycophants, and the poor end user trying to make a valid point. I am not as shocked as some to see a reduction in the number of regular posters.
 
If someone voices an issue they often get badgered until they either give up or cave in. Something to bear in mind with this "strategy" is that those people are paying the "self-gainers" salaries. The true "power" lies in the poor end user's wallet, and when they go "silent" that is a very bad sign.

The OP presented an intelligent post and presented what I feel is a reasonable concern. As it turned out, IIRC at least one of the bugs was pre-existing and one had a simple workaround, but that does not invalidate the premise, which is legitimate. As I mentioned in my example involving Apple's track record with frequent updates, this concern indeed has validity.
 
In all my posts I have tried to describe how the process works so that people can understand the tradeoffs that are involved. This doesn't mean anyone has to agree that Cakewalk has made the right tradeoffs, nor have I implied that they should. But, I do feel that the more accurate data people have about a topic, the better they can evaluate whether the concerns they have are valid or not.
 
Note that the OP did not say "This whole thing sucks and I'm going to start using Samplitude." He presented concerns. If he knows how the process works behind the curtain, he's smart enough to decide for himself whether he thinks those concerns will become more valid or less valid in the future.
 
 

Kylotan
Okay, we're 5 mini-versions in to the new model, and I'm concerned. Yes, we've seen bug fixes each time, some great ones. But we're also seeing new bugs being shipped each time.
 
Several that affected me:
1) Drum Maps started dropping notes back in March: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Random-missing-MIDI-notes-m3190061.aspx
2) The Dorchester update seemed to do weird things with certain MIDI events, eg. playing a very short extra note before starting to play back a clip. Seems to be fixed now in Everett.
3) Everett has broken Drum Maps again - either losing the output assignment for some people, or just not playing anything back at all for me. http://forum.cakewalk.com...rum-maps-m3230072.aspx
4) Slip-editing linked clips seems to break (although maybe this is an old bug, since it seems familiar) http://forum.cakewalk.com/Slip-edit-moving-things-wrongly-m3230458.aspx
 
So right now, each month I get a bunch of new content (none of which I use, to be frank) and a 50% chance of a program-breaking bug that may not get fixed for another month. It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence and today the first chance I got at writing music for quite some time has been completely ruined by Everett not being able to play my drum VSTi. This is not what I want from a DAW and I hope that Cakewalk are going to reflect on their QA process and make sure they're not just shipping new bugs each month (and then getting the credit for fixing them later).

Let's remind ourselves of the topic.

Doktor Avalanche
Yup it's all hearsay! It doesn't exist!!! Look there's an albatross over there..! 

I can only conclude that your post refers to the one before yours.

To Alex, or should I say Doktor Avalanche
My post addressed Kylotans post#86, where he quoted me. unfortunately many others contributed in the meantime I should have quoted him. Clearly English comprehension isn't one of your skills. A shame because you have many others.

You can turn my words around if you like. But I did not say there were no problems in Sonar, as you imply by your comment. Please read the other posts I made in this thread and others, but it's just like you to say stuff like that. I thought you were on track in this thread but you just can't help yourself can you. Got to make snide remarks. Just can't help but preside in your usual sanctimonious fashion. If you were half as clever as you make out you'd know when it's time to keep your thoughts to yourself. This was one of those times. At last, a reason to use the block feature. You no longer exist in my Cakewalk world.