Random missing MIDI notes

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Rockscientist
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2015/03/12 03:24:17 (permalink)

Random missing MIDI notes

I've recently been experiencing a phenomenon where certain, seemingly random MIDI notes are not being played back by BFD 3 & BFD Eco, which I use for full studio productions and demo/sketch pad purposes respectively. I believe it began happening around the time I upgraded to Platinum, although this was around the same time I added BFD Eco to my repertoire, so I couldn't say for sure what change started the problem. I don't think this is happening with any other instruments, though drums are the easiest to detect with this sort of thing.
 
While the missing notes appear to me to be random, each time playback is started from a certain point, it seems to be the SAME notes that are dropped on each playback. I would estimate that 1 of every 10 to 20 notes gets missed, but in some occasions I've heard significantly more of them lost. I usually have a few MIDI instruments going in a project, but this happens even when there is only a sparse drum track and 3-4 audio tracks playing back.
 
Yes, this had happened since the Platinum update a few days ago. Has anyone else encountered this behavior? What did you do?

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 03:55:37 (permalink)
    Increase your MIDI Prepare Using Buffer in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording. Try the old default of 500 if it's at the new lower default of 250. A lot of systems don't tolerate that well. If it's already at 500, try 600 or 700. Some users have reported that Platinum needs a larger MIDI buffer than previous releases.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 05:06:54 (permalink)
    I've had to jack my buffers right up to 2000!
     
    If this doesn't work, make sure your Midi notes are short and all of the same length.
    I find a length of 60 ticks works perfectly.

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    Rockscientist
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 15:45:16 (permalink)
    Thanks people! I tried implementing this, and it does seem to make a difference, but does not completely solve the problem. I've upped the buffer as far as 10,000 milliseconds and there are definitely a lot fewer misses at that level, there are still ~5 per playback of a project. I feel as if something else might be going on as well ...
     
    Jonesy - How do you change the ticks per drum note? I want to try that next.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 16:08:09 (permalink)
    Go into the prv. Sweep with your mouse on the keyboard to the left so that all notes are selected.
     
    Type '60' in the Event Inspector's duration field

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 16:09:15 (permalink)
    Or, in Track View, select all the clips in your drum track, then go to the Event Inspector as above.
     

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    matt fresha
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 16:23:33 (permalink)
    This happens to me when using drum maps no matter what. I'm using Superior Drummer, SSD4, Drumforge (in kontakt) and other K5 libraries and even a project with Addictive Drums. Raising the buffer did some good, but the problem never went away completely...until I disabled the drum map.
     
    I also noticed that it seems to happen after a certain amount of playback. I'm about to finish my project Sonar Platinum project pretty soon and I see I'm going to have to disable the drum map when rendering.
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    Rockscientist
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 19:25:07 (permalink)
    Jonesy - I reduced all the notes to duration = 60 (they had been at 1000), but unfortunately no difference. Thanks for the idea though.
     
    Vern - I was hoping this wouldn't be the solution, but it was. Playback became solid when I removed my drum map I spent such a long time constructing. Did you happen to tell Cakewalk about this when you figured it out?

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    tlw
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/12 19:26:39 (permalink)
    Once you're happy with the drums bounce them down to audio tracks. Then you can delete the MIDI tracks and any MIDI-related issue should disappear.

    My approach to mixing is, other than rough mixes as I go along, once everything's tracked I get rid of all the MIDI tracks and just work with audio. Less system load if I decide to add in more effects and fewer console channels to be dealing with.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/13 05:40:01 (permalink)
    Vern C
    This happens to me when using drum maps no matter what. I'm using Superior Drummer, SSD4, Drumforge (in kontakt) and other K5 libraries and even a project with Addictive Drums. Raising the buffer did some good, but the problem never went away completely...until I disabled the drum map.
     
    I also noticed that it seems to happen after a certain amount of playback. I'm about to finish my project Sonar Platinum project pretty soon and I see I'm going to have to disable the drum map when rendering.


    This is the first version of Sonar that I've ever had a problem with skipped drum notes and I always use a drum map.
     
    Curious. 
     
    I'll test this out when I get home tonight. This is a double edged sword - great if it fixes the problem, but I need drum maps for my workflow. 

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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/13 12:59:53 (permalink)
    I must admit I've been seeing this too, with Superior Drummer 2 routed through a drum map in Sonar Platinum. I thought that maybe the VSTi just hadn't loaded the samples yet, but I have it set to load them all at startup so that shouldn't happen. So, chalk this up as a potential "me too".

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    Jim Kalinowski
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/13 20:13:45 (permalink)
    I also had been experiencing this problem.  I tried changing the MIDI buffers setting, even as high as 2000 with no success.  It almost seemed like the buffer value was being ignored.  So I emailed support.  I got a reply the next day from Joe in support who recommended deleting the TTSSEG.ini file (it's in the %appdata%/Roaming/Cakewalk/Platinum folder (that's not the exact folder name, but you should be able to figure it out)).  That file contains the MIDI driver settings.  The values in it seemed pretty simple and obvious stuff you could change in the Preferences section.  I don't know how, but deleting it seemed to work.  I still had to up the buffer setting to 1024 (250 worked in X3 on the same machine), but at least now changes in the buffer seem to work.  It's been three days and no dropped MIDI notes.
     
    Jim

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    Rockscientist
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/13 21:57:43 (permalink)
    Jim Polishski - That seems to have done the trick! I only tested it on one project so far, but that was the song with the most problems, so I'm highly optimistic. For the rest of you ...
     
    "C:\Users\(your user name)\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\SONAR Platinum" is the default location.
    "TTSSEQ.ini" is the file name.
     
    Just move/delete it and viola, drums! Thanks again for all the input.

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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/13 22:30:01 (permalink)
    This definitely started happening after the upgrade to Platinum.  I too upped my midi buffers to 1000 with no change.  It kind of sounds like it only affects certain people's machines....as others seem to have no problems.
     
    I will try that recommendation Jim stated he got from Cake support about deleting the ini file.
     
    I'm hoping the next update will have this fixed along with soloing the kit parts.  Meanwhile...I've reverted back to X3 so I can concentrate on my work.  I know the bakers have tweaks to do and are working to get things fixed, so I am patient about the update...especially since X3 works so flawlessly for me.

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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/14 15:35:32 (permalink)
    Are Cakewalk aware of this issue? Do we need a thread in the Problem Reports section?

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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/15 23:14:55 (permalink)
    OK....today I renamed the TTSSEG.ini (instead of deleting it) and opened up a project in Platinum that I'm working on in X3.  For a few minutes I thought it was going to work fine.  Then all of a sudden a snare drum note was dropping and not playing.  I can move the snare note even just a tick and the snare will sound.  But move it back to where it was and no sound.
     
    So I'm sticking with X3 until this gets ironed out.

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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 06:59:56 (permalink)
    Interestingly enough, for me it's also the snare sound that seems to drop out. I don't know if the problem is intrinsic to that MIDI event, or whether the other drum kit pieces are just played quietly enough and less frequently enough for me to not notice when they are absent.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 07:21:44 (permalink)
    It's not just snares, I'm getting dropped notes on Kick Drum events.

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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 08:24:27 (permalink)
    Ok, I have a project where I can reliably reproduce this now.
    1. It persists across restarts of Platinum
    2. It persists even though I renamed ttsseq.ini
    3. Whether the hit in question fires or not depends on where I start playback. I have a drum clip stretching from bar 203 to 211. If I start playback at 202:01:000 exactly, the hit at 205:01:479 does not trigger. If I start playback from anywhere else, including 202:02:000, or 201:04:000, or anywhere close to 202:01:000 but not exactly on it, it works.
    4. It seems unrelated to the quantity of hits, because I am finding that a snare drops out when a kick does not, despite there being the same number of each in the clip and them being at roughly the same times each occurrence (it's a fast metal beat)
    5. The 'where I start playback' issue is relative, not absolute: if I move the clips somewhere else in the song and still start playback exactly 1 measure before the clip begins, the problem persists.
    There is only one VSTi playing (Superior Drummer 2), and it is going through a drum map where all the notes in are the same as the notes out. (It's just used to show note names in the Piano Roll.)
     
    post edited by Kylotan - 2015/03/16 08:45:56

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 09:13:03 (permalink)
    I haven't been as thorough as you in testing, but my impression has always been that the dropped hits always depend on where I start playback from.
     
    Your findings reinforce my gut feelings.

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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 20:05:28 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    It's not just snares, I'm getting dropped notes on Kick Drum events.


    Yeah...I've experienced it with snares, kicks, HH...etc.  But once a note is dropped, it will stay dropped until I move it a tick or two.

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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 20:09:14 (permalink)
    Just curious...has anyone tried mixing down a section to see if the dropped notes actually render correctly in a mixed file?  I haven't tried this...actually just now thought of it.

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    Resonant Serpent
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/16 23:10:51 (permalink)
    Add me to the chorus of dropped notes while using midi triggered drums. I've tried every combination for the last two hours of upping and lowering my midi buffers and audio buffers. Things were fine until I looped a small section, and immediately the notes dropped. After looping, I couldn't get the notes to trigger. I even shut down the project, reopened it, and the notes were still dropping.
     
    I had posted in another thread about how it was weird for the keyboard to not trigger AD2 when I was using a drum map. Don't know if this is related or not.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 05:49:14 (permalink)
    Teds_Studio
    Just curious...has anyone tried mixing down a section to see if the dropped notes actually render correctly in a mixed file?  I haven't tried this...actually just now thought of it.


    Hi Ted.
     
    No, I haven't yet tried to bounce/freeze the project that's exhibiting this behaviour.
    I'm currently engaged in mixing down vocals on my main DAW. I have to say that so far, this behaviour is only manifesting itself on my secondary machine, but i will, when I get a some "free" time (whatever the hell THAT is) I'll take a look.
    Probably won't be until the weekend.

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    matt fresha
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 11:35:40 (permalink)
    Kylotan
    Ok, I have a project where I can reliably reproduce this now.
    1. It persists across restarts of Platinum
    2. It persists even though I renamed ttsseq.ini
    3. Whether the hit in question fires or not depends on where I start playback. I have a drum clip stretching from bar 203 to 211. If I start playback at 202:01:000 exactly, the hit at 205:01:479 does not trigger. If I start playback from anywhere else, including 202:02:000, or 201:04:000, or anywhere close to 202:01:000 but not exactly on it, it works.
    4. It seems unrelated to the quantity of hits, because I am finding that a snare drops out when a kick does not, despite there being the same number of each in the clip and them being at roughly the same times each occurrence (it's a fast metal beat)
    5. The 'where I start playback' issue is relative, not absolute: if I move the clips somewhere else in the song and still start playback exactly 1 measure before the clip begins, the problem persists.
    There is only one VSTi playing (Superior Drummer 2), and it is going through a drum map where all the notes in are the same as the notes out. (It's just used to show note names in the Piano Roll.)
     




    Like I said earlier, whenever I experienced that exact same issue, I removed the drum map and the dropped notes stopped occurring. Everything played back fine. It appears to be an issue stemming from drum maps.
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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 12:45:54 (permalink)
    I've posted in the Problem Reports forum because we don't seem to be getting any response or acknowledgement here.
    http://forum.cakewalk.com...ing-used-m3192444.aspx

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    Resonant Serpent
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 13:07:05 (permalink)
    Vern C is correct. I went back in this morning and disabled the drum map in my project. The weird thing is, I had two drum maps for AD2, and both of them said that they had been changed. I only loaded one, and didn't change anything. I can now play back my drum tracks without drop outs, and the piano roll works like it always did. Going to sit down and make a laminated copy of the drum map. Going to keep things as simple as possible from here on out.

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    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 13:12:11 (permalink)
    Yesterday I saw a weird bug where Platinum had created 5 or 6 extra drum maps for my project, besides the one I actually use. I wonder if some half-finished work on the drum maps accidentally slipped into the last release.

    Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc
     
    Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
    #28
    brundlefly
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 13:35:52 (permalink)
    Kylotan
    Yesterday I saw a weird bug where Platinum had created 5 or 6 extra drum maps for my project, besides the one I actually use. I wonder if some half-finished work on the drum maps accidentally slipped into the last release.


    I've had that happen when I tried to insert a new drum map in a project and assign the outputs of multiple MIDI tracks to it at the same time by quick grouping. SONAR interprets that as "create a new drum map for each of these tracks and assign the output to it". You need to add the drum map first, and then quick-group the MIDI track output assignments to it. I don't think this behavior is new to Platinum.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
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    #29
    Kylotan
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    Re: Random missing MIDI notes 2015/03/17 13:38:00 (permalink)
    I wasn't adding any new drum maps, and I only ever use them on one track. Sonar just did something strange. In fact, it's very common for me to open up the drum map manager and find that it has a 'spare' drum map that I didn't ask for, usually a duplicate of the one I am using. But all I ever do with drum maps is assign one, once, at the start of the project.

    Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc
     
    Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
    #30
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