rfreeze

Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]

Beepster
I mean some people are acting like we're dealing with some brand new sketchy upstart company looking to take the money and run. For sure if that were the case I would most certainly not drop any coin but I also wouldn't bother angrily posting about it like I had already been ripped off.
 
Think about... Cakewalk has been around for what? 20? 30 years? They are now owned by Gibson who have been around for what? 60? 70? 80 years?! I really don't think they are gonna pull the software equivalent of a smash and grab at this point.
 
Cripes.

Cakewalk 28y/o
 
Gibson 113y/o
 

Why does my '14 LP have a 120th Anniversary inlay at 12?  :)

AFAIK, before 1902 it wasn't the "Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Mfg Co. Ltd", but Orville was still making instruments. I'm not a historian though, just a Google-Wizard.  

nzpaul
I'm sold - I think it's going to be brilliant
 
I've pre-purchased my copy now (X3 producer to Platinum)  from JRR for $125.16 (with the GROUP 16% off code)

Reading this thread, I had to pay today: 5CHF breakfast, 8CHF cigarettes, 16CHF lunch,  10CHF dinner and 6CHF coffee in between = 44CHF = $51.
 
If JRR is not a fake, why CW could not just announce "Tranfer $125 there and get the new version in 2 weeks..."? They could post "Hey! You also get 1 year updates for free" next month, and everyone is happy. So, what is this new shop, model, price politic etc. about? May be I am just too stupid to understand the idea...

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Let's say you don't buy into membership until February of 2016. By July 2016, you will also have the latest build of SONAR just like me. In contrast, you will only be able to roll back and forth between builds of SONAR between February 2016 and July 2016. Also, in contrast, you will not have any content that was delivered to me between now and February of 2016. That's mine, not yours. You should have signed up earlier if you wanted it ;).
 
[...]
It's a pretty good deal for you in terms of being up to date with SONAR, but by lapsing your membership there will be things you'll miss out on.

Anderton
The updates will be a mix of additions to the core program AND content.

 
Sorry to compare and merge 2 people's responses here but I think this is important - because my previous cautious welcome for this new scheme has just turned into mild scepticism.
 
As I mentioned on a previous message, I can't afford to subscribe all the time, even at the cheapest rate of $200 a year. The improvements delivered each year have not previously been worth $200 - no offence intended to the developers, but there is no software I would pay that much for in an ongoing fashion. So, I've typically upgraded roughly every 3 years. I got Sonar 7 in 2009, Sonar 8.5 in late 2011, Sonar X3 in 2014, etc. Cakewalk have got less money out of me this way, but I have had to wait longer for upgrades and new content as part of the bargain. But I still get the full package when I do finally upgrade.
 
So, I thought it would be reasonable for me to continue the same strategy by subscribing for 1 year in every 3, roughly. As has happened so far, I would get the same features, content, and fixes, just up to 2 years later than everybody else. And that is what I assumed would happen - until I saw these 2 quoted messages.
 
Ryan is saying that, if I do not remain subscribed, and pay Cakewalk at a rate roughly 3x what I have paid up to now, then I will miss out on 'content' delivered in the intermediate period. That makes me worse off than now, but maybe I can stomach that if it's just optional extras like new ProChannel bits and loops and so on. But it's also unclear as to whether I would also miss out on 'additions to the core program' as well. Is there a clear delineation between "content" (delivered only to members who are subscribed at the time of release) and "features" (delivered to any member that subscribes after the feature is created)? The picture at https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Membership implies there is a separation, but I'd like to see that spelled out.

Hello and good evening!


Apologies for not going through every single page here for an answer, that would be quite a demand!
I've been reading the membership page and ran across something that has me a bit worried.

"If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. "

So if I, as I plan on doing, purchase a one year membership for Platinum, and then decline renewal of my subscription, after one year's time, what I purchased two years prior gets turned into a demo?
I want to make sure I'm fully understanding this new methodology. So far, what I am understanding sounds amazing!


Thanks for your time, and take care!
-Hypocrita

Kylotan

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Let's say you don't buy into membership until February of 2016. By July 2016, you will also have the latest build of SONAR just like me. In contrast, you will only be able to roll back and forth between builds of SONAR between February 2016 and July 2016. Also, in contrast, you will not have any content that was delivered to me between now and February of 2016. That's mine, not yours. You should have signed up earlier if you wanted it ;).
 
[...]
It's a pretty good deal for you in terms of being up to date with SONAR, but by lapsing your membership there will be things you'll miss out on.

Anderton
The updates will be a mix of additions to the core program AND content.

 
Sorry to compare and merge 2 people's responses here but I think this is important - because my previous cautious welcome for this new scheme has just turned into mild scepticism.
 
As I mentioned on a previous message, I can't afford to subscribe all the time, even at the cheapest rate of $200 a year. The improvements delivered each year have not previously been worth $200 - no offence intended to the developers, but there is no software I would pay that much for in an ongoing fashion. So, I've typically upgraded roughly every 3 years. I got Sonar 7 in 2009, Sonar 8.5 in late 2011, Sonar X3 in 2014, etc. Cakewalk have got less money out of me this way, but I have had to wait longer for upgrades and new content as part of the bargain. But I still get the full package when I do finally upgrade.
 
So, I thought it would be reasonable for me to continue the same strategy by subscribing for 1 year in every 3, roughly. As has happened so far, I would get the same features, content, and fixes, just up to 2 years later than everybody else. And that is what I assumed would happen - until I saw these 2 quoted messages.
 
Ryan is saying that, if I do not remain subscribed, and pay Cakewalk at a rate roughly 3x what I have paid up to now, then I will miss out on 'content' delivered in the intermediate period. That makes me worse off than now, but maybe I can stomach that if it's just optional extras like new ProChannel bits and loops and so on. But it's also unclear as to whether I would also miss out on 'additions to the core program' as well. Is there a clear delineation between "content" (delivered only to members who are subscribed at the time of release) and "features" (delivered to any member that subscribes after the feature is created)? The picture at https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Membership implies there is a separation, but I'd like to see that spelled out.

Based on your post and my assessment of the situation over the past couple days you should be fine. The extra stuff won't bore core content just... well extras. So at most I'm imagining you may miss out on a PC module or VST effect. Things they've actually added to the core program apparently are cumulative so you'd get however many months/years worth of updates/upgrades you missed. Pretty much the same as always but I'm thinking maybe even better because a) you get the extra content throughout the year you signed up for (which aside from the content club which was somewhat lacklustre anyway we've never had... so it's not like you'd get just loops and other crap you may get a nice plug or something) and b) any core improvements you wouldn't normally haven't seen outside of a paid point upgrade meaning you get not only the previous versions you missed but the next version as well. So if you skipped three years you kind of get those three years PLUS an extra year.
 
That is all theoretical though but seems worth the price increase. That price increase is unfortunately a bit of a burden for me as well but that's just because I'm broke... not because it's not worth it.

Hypocrita
Hello and good evening!


Apologies for not going through every single page here for an answer, that would be quite a demand!
I've been reading the membership page and ran across something that has me a bit worried.

"If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. "

So if I, as I plan on doing, purchase a one year membership for Platinum, and then decline renewal of my subscription, after one year's time, what I purchased two years prior gets turned into a demo?
I want to make sure I'm fully understanding this new methodology. So far, what I am understanding sounds amazing!


Thanks for your time, and take care!
-Hypocrita

Nope. If you pay for the full 12 months up front it is yours, fully licensed forever. It is only if you pay by the month and cancel before you reach month 12 that you would lose anything and that would only be the stuff from the current period. So if you paid for one year in full then in the second year went month to month for a while and let it lapse you would lose that few months you were paying month to month but still keep your first year.
 
Cheers.

Hey Beepster!


Wonderful news, really glad to read that! Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.


Take care!
-Hypocrita

Anderton
I wouldn't classify Mix Recall and VocalSync as "small improvements," especially when the closest you can come to VocalSync in the outside world will cost you almost twice the price of the update. The MIDI editing changes and AudioSnap improvements are significant, and the customized Control Bar is fantastic. The FX and Send stacks are really convenient. A lot of people said they didn't want more plug-ins and such, they wanted more improvements in core features and stability. So that's the focus for now, and add-ons like Drum Replacement will roll out over the next year.

From a personal perspective, just as feedback:

• Mix Recall - a big feature, and possibly a life-saver, but only when it works across projects. Within a project... useless to me, unfortunately. I've never had a need or desire to make wholesale comparisons between 2 divergent mixes on the same track, but I do have a common need to copy and paste whole mixes from one project to another (eg. to mix an album coherently).
• VocalSync - nice to have, if there are no artefacts, but you'd be surprised how far you can get with crossfades and nudging. ;) It would be even easier if Sonar implemented split-with-crossfade...
• MIDI editing changes - all I remember from the video are 2 things. 1 - the drag-to-resize feature that audio clips have. This can be currently done with the Process>Length option, right? Putting it on the mouse is handy but hardly a game-changer when it was already possible. And 2 - the pattern brush, which is fancy copy and paste that I can't see a use for.
• AudioSnap improvements - the interface looked identical to me. Sound quality was already good enough when rendered down. What has actually changed?
• the customized Control Bar is fantastic - you mean they've finally returned the toolbars to the degree of customization and flexibility we used to have up to version 8.5? ;)
• The FX and Send stacks are really convenient - isn't this just fancy talk for "the console view UI is not crippled any more"? You always could see infinite FX and sends in Track View. But it seems like, with ProChannel, Cakewalk have been pushing people towards Console View - and now, with this update, expecting people to be happy that the functionality there is restored back to parity with Track View.
• "more improvements in core features and stability. So that's the focus for now" - finally, that's something I WILL be happy to see. ;) If Matrix View can actually work properly, that would be great. Silly selection bugs need to go away too. I guess it's asking too much for Teleport Server not to crash when a plugin misbehaves, too? :)

Question:
I pay 149 upfront now and, as platinum subscriber, receive drum replacer vocal sync and what not.
My subscription ends and I decide to wait for a subscription renewal until bug fixes for the most annoying bugs are out. If so, I decide to subscribe again, but, as I'm not interested in the meanwhile released and currently announced upcoming platinum features, I do a downgrade to artist, pay 4.99/mt subscription fee, just in order to get the bugs squashed.

Will drum replacer, vocal sync etc. stop working, as I'm an artist subscriber now? Is down/upgrade hopping feasible?

I pay 3 months artist, then a platinum feature is announced, that interests me, and get delivered further 3 months later. I wait one more months, to be sure it's bug free and, if necessary, patched within that month, then I decide to upgrade to platinum again.

Afai understand, the 7 months I paid for artist are not factored in in any way when I pay upfront 199, right.
So if I want this platinum feature, I cancel my artist subscription, pay 199 upfront for platinum and I'm a platinum member again for the next 12 months, right.

Doable?
Automatically within the Command Center? Or just by individual telephone debates?

rfreeze

Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]

Beepster
I mean some people are acting like we're dealing with some brand new sketchy upstart company looking to take the money and run. For sure if that were the case I would most certainly not drop any coin but I also wouldn't bother angrily posting about it like I had already been ripped off.
 
Think about... Cakewalk has been around for what? 20? 30 years? They are now owned by Gibson who have been around for what? 60? 70? 80 years?! I really don't think they are gonna pull the software equivalent of a smash and grab at this point.
 
Cripes.

Cakewalk 28y/o
 
Gibson 113y/o
 

Why does my '14 LP have a 120th Anniversary inlay at 12?  :)

Because Gibson was indeed started in 1894, you are correct. I have a Melody Maker with that 120th anniversary inlay