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Anderton

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Anderton
The only drawback I've found is that SONAR is very picky about its Windows environment. Its code has hooks deep into the operating system, which is one reason why a Mac version will probably never appear (although of course, it runs great under Boot Camp). To SONAR, a Windows computer is like a combination lock - when all the tumblers are in place, it opens up. But that's why this forum is so great - because odds are someone has experienced whatever problem you have, and can offer a solution or a workaround.
 
There's a reason why this forum is considered one of SONAR's outstanding "features"!

Craig,
You make it sound like Sonar's pickyness is a feature. 

Not sure if that's meant as humor or not...if it was humor, I apologize but if you meant it, i called the pickyness a "drawback" and said "But that's why this forum is so great - because odds are someone has experienced whatever problem you have, and can offer a solution or a workaround. There's a reason why this forum is considered one of SONAR's outstanding 'features'!"
 
It's the FORUM that's the outstanding feature. That's you guyz 

It was meant to illustrate something serious in a humorous way.
Yes, you say the pickyness is a drawback, then you blame it on Windows

 
I did not "blame" it on Windows. I said "To SONAR, a Windows computer is like a combination lock - when all the tumblers are in place, it opens up." Those "tumblers" are things like turning off wi-fi, not exceeding the MIDI port limit, having the requisite C++ libraries, disabling unneeded services that impact real-time audio streaming, updating graphics card drivers, etc. That's not "blaming" Windows. 
 
Previously I said I felt some of SONAR's instabilities were due to interactions with Windows and drivers (e.g., the HD Audio driver and such). That's not blaming Windows/drivers or SONAR, but the interaction between the two - which could be either one or both.
 

I don't really think interfacing with audio drivers is deep hooks into the OS even with kernel mode drivers. The very fact that there are drivers in WIndows is to prevent needing hooks deep into the OS.
This seems to imply that Sonar has some kind of secret OS sauce that if applied correctly will yield superior results.

 
I said nothing about audio drivers and did not imply "SONAR has some kind of secret OS sauce." I simply said your Windows environment has to be optimized for SONAR to be stable. I don't see how any rational person could disagree with that. Think of all the posts in this forum where people claim that "SONAR crashes all the time!!!" and then someone points out a tweak that fixes it. That is the basis of my comment regarding why this forum is so great. 
 

Beepster
The one thing I like about Craig being involved with Gibson and thus indirectly with Cakewalk is that he's pretty blunt about it's shortcomings and the stability weirdness is one that I've seen him acknowledge on multiple occasions (which I think he has done again here).

For the record, I've started several threads about stability issues I've experienced to see if others experienced them as well, or whether the issue was system-specific. The recent one on the VX-64 comes to mind and one on ProChannel issues. The reason for doing this is that if it is an actual issue, others chime in and sometimes, provide recipes to reproduce. I can then summarize this material and send it to the Bakers. Several fixes have occurred specifically because of this co-operative approach to identifying bugs.
 
Just last week, Sylvan posted about the Melodyne bug. I tested and confirmed in the thread. Noel took the data in that thread. The weekend before NAMM, he created four builds in quick succession. When I tested #4, the bug had been fixed and a patch was released shortly thereafter (see, the new model DOES work!). 
 
Pretending bugs don't exist provides no benefit to Cakewalk. Identifying and most importantly, being able to reproduce them does. The goal is not to cover up bugs; the goal is stable software with minimal bugs.

Beepster,
I too hope the Gibson thing works. I also hope the new development paradigm works. For this it is too early to tell.
For Platinum, I don't see much difference from the old paradigm. Looks like new features are about as buggy as in the X3 initial release. It will take a few updates to tell if the new way is better.
 
I would like to see a bug fix/ features list for Platinum. If it takes much longer to provide this , we will have another update before we know what was in the last one.
If you follow the posts , it looks like they did something to MIDI since a lot of folks are having to increase the 'prepare using'  setting to fix dropped MIDI notes.
From my own experience, something was done to Sonar's window functionality since there are differences from X3E.
This may be part of the re-use plugin feature. It is not broken it just works differently.

microapp
Beep,
I have the utmost respect for both you and Craig.
But seriously, it is Craig's gig to some extent manage us and try to put a positive spin on anything that begins to trend negative.

 
This is true if in my opinion the negativity is unwarranted. But if in my opinion it is warranted, then I confirm the issue and pass the info along to the Bakers or if it's too nebulous, try to reproduce it myself.
 
And the same issue can display both elements. For example I think the complaints about bugs in staff view are warranted, have said so publicly, have brought it up with the Bakers, and encouraged them to fix any SV bugs. BUT I think the comments that Cakewalk has contempt toward the minority of users to whom notation is important are completely unwarranted. (Or, someone saying that SV is never brought up in design meetings is totally unwarranted because it's baseless speculation that is not true.) I do think that my knowing the "behind the scenes" decision-making process helps me present a more objective viewpoint on what's happening.
 

I think too that he has a personal stake in seeing this Gibson/Cake thing work since it is kinda his baby and that is only natural and certainly understandable.

 
That is absolutely correct. I want this to succeed. Actually I want Cakewalk to take over the world. BUT that doesn't happen by having buggy software or dumb features. Everybody involved in SONAR, whether as a user or a Cakewalk employee, wants the same thing: the most kick-ass DAW on the planet. So we ALL have a personal stake in seeing this Gibson/Cake thing work.

Beepster
I don't know what the heck Roland was up to but as soon as they were out of the picture it was like night and day on so many levels.

Again, let me emphasize Roland is a fine company with people who meant well with Cakewalk. I think it was mostly an issue of Roland's expertise being in hardware rather than software. You might say Gibson's expertise is not in software either, but as Henry is a long-time Cakewalk user (since DOS days) he was intimately familiar with the program and saw its potential. Gibson is just a better "fit," and that's what makes the difference. 

microapp
Beepster,
I too hope the Gibson thing works. I also hope the new development paradigm works. For this it is too early to tell.
For Platinum, I don't see much difference from the old paradigm. Looks like new features are about as buggy as in the X3 initial release. It will take a few updates to tell if the new way is better.
 
I would like to see a bug fix/ features list for Platinum. If it takes much longer to provide this , we will have another update before we know what was in the last one.
If you follow the posts , it looks like they did something to MIDI since a lot of folks are having to increase the 'prepare using'  setting to fix dropped MIDI notes.
From my own experience, something was done to Sonar's window functionality since there are differences from X3E.
This may be part of the re-use plugin feature. It is not broken it just works differently.

No, I think you;re wrong here.
My interpretation is that a lot of the new installs have been made at the default setting of 250ms whereas most of us know of the problem and have been running at a setting 1000

Anderton
 I said nothing about audio drivers and did not imply "SONAR has some kind of secret OS sauce." I simply said your Windows environment has to be optimized for SONAR to be stable. I don't see how any rational person could disagree with that. Think of all the posts in this forum where people claim that "SONAR crashes all the time!!!" and then someone points out a tweak that fixes it. That is the basis of my comment regarding why this forum is so great. 
 

Story time...
 
My old DAW was getting old and I had essentially nothing as far as virtual instruments. I always just recorded myself and my bands and worked with the live tracks. I had to give all that up (bands, band room, my drums, most of my gear, etc) due to some unfortunate life crap. So for a whole year I researched the various DAWs to find out what they all offered because although I like my old DAW it was something crazy like $1700 to get the current version. Considering Sonar had all the instruments I needed to write and by all accounts it COULD be stable if you had a powerful enough system I decided that would be the best option. It was a gamble though but once I decided on it I then spent a whole pile of time researching computers for audio. I basically copied the parts list/specs of pro audio rigs being sold by the DAW building companies (I could not afford one of their rigs unfortunately). With some help from a tech friend of mine giving me advice I got a good list of hardware for the rig, ordered it and built my first system (seriously I had NEVER built a computer before and had hardly even done any physical repairs on one). Somehow I managed to get it all slapped together and working. I went through the lengthy process of installing Sonar (which was confusing as heck to n00b like me) and at the end of it all was so excited to get her fired up and start poking around.
 
So my intent was to use my old PCI/breakout box interface. I made sure I bought a MOBO that had a legacy PCI slot specifically to accomodate it. So I started goofing around with some stuff (I recorded a little bit of guitar, drug in some audio loops, played around with the ProChannel EQ, etc). I was getting just HORRIBLE crackles and dropouts. I was completely gutted by all this. After all that work and expense I had a useless system which made me feel useless.
 
Completely depressed, defeated and deflated I logged into the forum which I had just signed up for (in fact that may have been my first post ever but I think I did go to the CH first to introduce myself). I explained what was happening as best I could and within 5-10 minutes I had John, Chuckebaby and some other fine fellows popping in offering advice.
 
They told me about the Bridged vs. Native issue for legacy PCI slots and how it can screw with audio (which I was peeved about because I thought I had been being REALLY careful with my choice of MOBO), explained some stuff about USB/FW interfaces and made some recommendations as well as telling me about buffer settings. Someone also turned me on to system optimization.
 
After some looking around I decided to get a Focusrite Scarlett (one of the recomendations) and had it in my hands the next week. Worked perfectly (and still does), no more crackles or dropouts without even changing my settings.
 
I also eventually did some optimization stuff after a while and got into the habit of messing with my interface buffers. After that I could even use my old PCI interface with no problem.
 
So literally from sheer suicidal depression over my failure to getting extremely helpful advice within minutes of posting that solved my problems.
 
I shudder to think what would have happened if this place hadn't been here.

Jonesy,
If 250 is default you are probably correct.
If I remember in X3 the default was 500 and I had to go to 999.
On my system, this value carried over from X3 so I never saw 250.
Not sure if the 3 or 4 people  with dropped MIDI notes did a clean install or not.
Either way, why would they change the default to 250 ?
 
But then again you have this
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3161752

Anderton
And yes, SONAR is not perfect in terms of stability. But sadly, neither are any of the other programs I own, and I suspect a lot has to do with Windows and driver interactions. 
 

 
Agreed. Windows is the biggest fu_k-up i have dealt with since brown bread, and windows even disagrees many times with perfectly fine drivers and apps. The amount of grief and anxiety and loss of money and time that Windows has caused worldwide simply beggars belief.
Quite frankly Microsoft should have been sued a hell of a long time ago for causing mass destruction to the minds and emotions of mankind. And even to this day Microsoft still haven't mended the error of their way and have no intention of doing so. The code and design of the Windows 'registry' is the culprit, it's scarier than the dark web and is a total enigma. That would explain why 90% of people who make music use a Mac.
 
The Mac doesn't have a registry to get corrupted. Microsoft persist with the registry paradigm simply for dweebs and four-eyed twits and geeks and obsessive compulsives and people with no life. Microsoft is utterly despicable. Their company should be banned by the US constitution for crimes against humanity LOL.
 
I know a coder/programmer who had to go into the windows registry and make some modifications for proprietary apps etc, and when he saw the depths and craft and state of the Windows registry he simply couldn't believe what he found down there, he simply couldn't believe the state of it, IT WAS A MESS! Even on a so-called fully functional in-shape system.
 
No DAW or software is safe running on Windows. Microsoft is the most defiant negligent ignorant ****ed stubborn pigheaded useless company on the face of the planet. True story. Someone had to say it...
 

more MIDI issues
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3162154