Hi guys,
 
A problem I'm not sure how to solve in the best way? I'm quiet new to mixing audio, and a drummer friend has done a track for me with 8 mics, including two on the snare. Ideally I want both snare audio files on one track in Sonar (8.5) so that all processing applies to both mics, rather than having to replicate all treatment exactly on two different tracks. However, one of the snare mics needs phase inverting, and phase invert applies in Sonar to all audio on a track, so both mic recordings would be inverted....
 
I know I could send two snare tracks to a bus, but that means having the snare down in the bus area rather than the track area, which doesn't work too well visually and practically when mixing. Can anybody help with suggested solution?
 
Thanks
 
Daniel

You should be able to combine them into one track by "bounce audio" which mixes whatever you select. The trick is getting just those two. So...
 
Mute everything  else, to "isolate" those two snare tracks. Then invert the phase of which ever one you want. Then bounce them to a new single track, checking the volume balance.
 
You should decide or try both, whether you want a mono or stereo track, as you bounce them.
 
If you save (ie don't delete) your original two snares, you can practice this several times and keep the best "outcome".
It's been a while but you might try soloing those two tracks, if muting everything is a PITA.
Michael

^ There's your best answer, Daniel.
 
Personally, I'd use a bus. Mainly, that's because I'm an insecure procrastinator with a fear of commitment.
 
But there are benefits to keeping the snare tracks independent: separate EQ and effects, and automation to alter their ratios in different parts of the song (e.g. more bottom mic on the verse, more top on the chorus). These decisions might only come to light later on in the mix process, in the context of the full mix.

sedm0710
Ideally I want both snare audio files on one track in Sonar (8.5) so that all processing applies to both mics, rather than having to replicate all treatment exactly on two different tracks. However, one of the snare mics needs phase inverting, and phase invert applies in Sonar to all audio on a track, so both mic recordings would be inverted....

You can reverse phase independently for a stereo track's left and right channels with Channel Tools.
 

Presumably the two mics are top and bottom?
 
If so I like to keep them separate.
 
I totally agree with you on the fixed bus system that sonar uses in the console, BFD2 & BFD3 both allow you to drag your buses anywhere you like in the mixer (as long as it's to the right of the source channel)
 
Steve

It is possible to effectively create a bus anywhere in SONAR see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3050940

scook
It is possible to effectively create a bus anywhere in SONAR see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3050940

I could be wrong but I'm guessing you've not used BFD2 or BFD3 scook?
 
The method LJB describes is really laborious in comparison to the BFD3 method.
I really don't want to be adding an effect and using it's side chain or whatever LJB is saying.
Perhaps I've not understood it properly but I never use side chaining for anything so I could be wrong.
 
As I said, in the BFD3 mixer you can just drag the aux bus anywhere you like, "Drag" being the crucial word here.
Also the channels are expandable, something else I've been wanting cakewalk to implement since sonar 7 but still nothing.
 
Steve

You don't really need to drag buses into a Track. Essentially, a track already is a bus; that's how Take Lanes work...the Lanes bus into the track. Put the two snare tracks in Take Lanes and whatever FX are in the track, including ProChannel, will process both tracks. (You may need to lower the lane levels via the track Gain control so when added together, they don't overload the inputs of the track FX.)
 
If one of the tracks needs to have its phase reversed (or for that matter, be processed independently with any effect), insert Channel Tools as a clip FX into the Take. The only significant limitation using Take Lanes compared to feeding individual tracks into a bus is you cannot automate Take Lanes separately. Any automation applied to the Track affects all Take Lanes. Then again, that may be exactly what you want if you don't want to copy multiple lanes of automation to various tracks.
 
However, as scook's link describes in more detail, you can also use conventional tracks with a bus, then send the bus output into a track via sidechaining and monitor only the sidechain input. The bus output appears just like a track, and is in the track view. Then you can hide the bus and even the source tracks if all you want is a single track that represents the output of source tracks going through a bus. It's not hard to set up, but you can always create a Track Template for this and load it as needed.

Mixing two sources onto one track is from an era when tracks were scarce and we had to make compromises but this certainly does not apply today.
 
If it is a top/bottom snare mic situation then leaving them separate is the better way to go. Right up to the mix process.  Firstly the bottom mic may need to be polarity reversed before it is combined with the top mic for the best sound but then again it also may not.
 
The ratio in level between the two mics won't be known until you are mixing. It might be a 80% top and 20% bottom but then again it may be 60/40 etc for the desired sound. or 95/5 etc.. A good thing to do is to alter this ratio over the course of the arrangement. eg make the chorus snare sound crack a fraction harder by bringing up the bottom mic.
 
I often send both the mics to a snare buss and do apply processing there to both but still have the level balance separate.  But also in some mixes I found it was nice to process the bottom mic too.
 
The old rule still applies though, tune the snare really well and get it sounding killer acoustically before you record. That still goes a long way to a great snare sound.

Here's another alternative. Bounce the two snare tracks to the left and right of a stereo clip. Put the stereo clip on a mono track and use the clip pan to adjust the balance between the two snare mics.