• SONAR
  • Sonar really needs a sampler. (p.16)
2016/10/22 17:05:27
jimfogle
coolbass
I think, if you need a sampler, buy a 3rd party one or use a free one.
Cakewalk should use the resources to make the core audio, midi and notation side stronger.
Providing a sampler is not its core business.


And providing notation is its core business?  Really?
2016/10/22 19:15:17
coolbass
jimfogle
coolbass
I think, if you need a sampler, buy a 3rd party one or use a free one.
Cakewalk should use the resources to make the core audio, midi and notation side stronger.
Providing a sampler is not its core business.


And providing notation is its core business?  Really?


Yes.
At least for also being able to edit midi-notes well in a notation-view.
I would not expect to make sheet music for my musicians with Sonar.
I would use Sibelius, Finale or whatever for that.
 
2016/10/22 22:56:24
telecharge
This thread now has more views than the Code of Conduct sticky from December 2015 at the top of all the Cakewalk Forums.
 
The first paragraph:
 
"Welcome to the Cakewalk Forums! These forums have a reputation of providing a friendly environment to get help with Cakewalk products, discuss ideas, and connect with other members. Much of this is because our members treat each other with respect and courtesy, and we are dedicated to continuing this tradition."
 

2016/10/23 09:13:52
guckzilla
I'm with OP, something like EXS24, NN-XT, Simpler/Sampler would be nice to have.
2016/10/23 12:54:49
AT
I have no big hopes for a new Cake sampler simply because they missed the buss years ago.  When Dimension and then Dim Pro came out just about everyone who bought it hoped for some kind of graphical SFZ editor to use with SFZ samples (SFZ being incredibly powerful).  But text-editing a sample/sampler editor reminded me of pulling FM teeth with line coding way back in the last century.
 
Cake could have put together a simple stereo editor and graphical SFZ when SFZ had a chance to be a new standard for sample editing.  Various synths other than Cake's including SFZ edited files - including Alchemy.  Despite many individuals doing good work on SFZ, it never reached a sustained level to become an easy way to control samples.  Which is why I don't think Cake is willing to put in the resources to make it so.  That horse has more or less left the barn.
 
Beatscape was going to be Cake's ubersynth.  It had an easy to understand interface and a great collection of samples.   And failed spectacularly.  There were problems with reliability and sync, but most people couldn't get it to play easily, which is the key to mass success.  No body, in the heat of the creative moment, wants to stop to line-edit a sample (or most of us, anyway).  It seemed to morph into the Matrix.
 
So, how bout a fly out panel for each matrix cell for editing the included sample/loop?  Not just loop on/off etc., but the sample itself, length and beat matching?  And SFZ EQ etc. for each cell sample so you can tweak it that way (visually, of course).  And further Scratchpad like control over each pad. There are plenty of ways to make the matrix an alternative to Live!, it is all there.
 
And I'm sure Cake would love to accommodate all our wishes, but they have limited resources and it is all a crap shoot.  Like Beatscape, you can sink a lot of time into a product and not produce a winner.  Even if it ain't a dog, it just might not match the music zeitgeist and you have a great product that few want.  That is why I have no great hope for a new, integrated sampler from Cake.  They've been there and done that and Beatscape burned Cake's fingers.  I imagine a much improved scoring app would come before a sampler - that is something that haven't done and many users ask for.
 
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record.  Not beat artists.  Not classically trained notation musicians.  Not to say they don't cater to such folk, but the emphasis has always been on the, if not singer songwriter, then the pop/rock idiom.  Look at where they have put their money and/or development - amp sims and soft drum machines and mixing tools.
 
I would love a sampler, even a simple built-in one. I'd love a stereo editor, even a simple built-in one.  I'd love a better Matrix designed more for live performance than as an arrangement tool.  But I still love what you can do with SONAR these days and the actual tools it does have.  As mentioned above, it sure beats razor blades and tape and, even if it doesn't do everything I want how I want it to work, I can do most everything I need, even if I don't play guitar. ;-) 
 
@
 
 
 
2016/10/23 13:11:40
telecharge
AT
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record.  Not beat artists.  Not classically trained notation musicians. 



Great post. I also get that impression -- more so since René left, and Gibson took over.
2016/10/23 13:32:18
BobF
Resource-wise, it's a catch 22.  Aside from from initial development, the more features and complexity that evolve over time also add to every other ongoing cost associated with it.
 
Also, as mentioned above, Cake could bake an awesome sampler that would end up less favored because xyz has the bees-knees sampler.  They could easily end up with an integrated sampler that maybe 5% of the user base uses, but they still have 100% of the ongoing costs to keep it going.
 
There is something to be said for a lean, mean, efficient core that has dev focus on integration with 3rd party tools instead of trying to compete with them.
 
If SONAR were to become this lean machine with SOLID performance, audio & MIDI tracking & editing with seamless integration with a wide variety of 3rd party hardware and software tools, I doubt many would complain - once the dust settled
 
Imagine seamless two-way integration with your favorite full-feature notation package.  And samplers, synths, controllers, etc.  A literal "Best of Breed" production system with that solid SONAR core ...
 
I'm just sayin' 
 
 
2016/10/23 15:54:51
robert_e_bone
I would personally not be in favor of Cakewalk diverting precious developer and development resources in building a full-blown sampler.  Kontakt seems to me to be the king daddy one out there, and there are bazillions of commercial and freeware/shareware libraries available - how would Cakewalk possibly be able to compete with all of that.
 
In addition, there is the EastWest Play - and massive sample content available through that - I have the full compliment of the Composer Cloud libraries downloaded - and that is more than a Terabyte there alone - with my Kontakt libraries, there is an additional 2+ Terabytes there.
 
I would much rather that Cakewalk resources be used to fix and enhance Sonar itself.
 
Bob Bone
2016/10/23 16:08:28
telecharge
But the OP is not suggesting a full-blown sampler ala Kontakt and EastWest. Why is that not sinking in?
2016/10/23 16:12:58
BobF
Wow ...
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