• SONAR
  • Mixdown (Bounced tracks) stereo tracks are different level (p.2)
2017/02/24 09:06:14
listen
The imperfect world of technology
2017/02/24 10:43:43
Paul G
I think this may be related to the problem I was having here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Audio-Exports-at-Higher-Level-m3556274.aspx#3557361
 
Thanks for the research, Jack.  I'll give that a try.
 
Paul
2017/02/24 11:34:46
fireberd
I don't think mine was exactly the same.   When Sonar created the "stereo" track from mono tracks on mixdown is where I encountered the different levels for the Left and Right tracks.  BUT, If I mixed down the project tracks to a mono track and then created the stereo track from that mono track both Left/Right levels were the same.  This suggests Sonar has different utilities for creating stereo tracks.  Fortunately one of the older versions corrected what was wrong with my 2017.01 version. 
2017/02/25 12:00:15
fireberd
I had marked this Solved (sort of) but the problem has showed up again on Sonar and my production Win 10 OS.  I have a second, separate, installation of the Win 10 "insider preview" version and Sonar installed on that.  The insider preview version is dual boot, on its own separate SSD.  I tried Sonar (2017.01) on the insider preview installation and the mono tracks on the mixdown to a stereo track are the same level. 
 
However, on my production, they are slightly different.  After reading the thread on Stereo Panning Law, I wondered if that had something to do with the unbalanced levels.  I tried all the Panning Law options and the channel levels were always off the same amount.  I'm back to where I started using the default Panning Law option (what I've always used). 
 
The levels are not off as much as they previously were, but they are different.
I exported the track and loaded it in Goldwave.  Using the Goldwave "Match Volume" function this is what is reported as the levels in each track (no Goldwave modification):
 
Current Average:
Left: 0.0300 (-30.4db)
Right: 0.0319 (-29.3db)
 
Final Peak:
Left 0.9695 (-0.27db)
Right 1.0696 (+0.5db)
2017/02/27 06:40:02
fireberd
Anyone? 
From other comments it looks like trying to contact Cakewalk support is fruitless, so I need input here.
 
Thanks/Jack
2017/02/27 07:17:54
chuckebaby
do a few tests and double check your bus section.
I want you to get a good look at your hardware faders in the bus section.
Im not saying its a hardware problem, im saying the hardware fader in sonar (the one that is typically hidden all the way to the right in Console view) directly effects the levels at which you bounce and export.
 
Years ago I used to use this fader to control room volume .
I forgot it directly effected the levels of the mix. Scratched my head for days trying to figure out what was going on.
Place it at 0db (set it / forget it)
2017/02/27 08:53:33
fireberd
They are set at "0".  I use the console view as the meters allow seeing the difference in channels.  It would not appear to be hardware (recording interface units) as it does the same with either my MOTU or Focusrite unit connected.
 
I exported the mix as a wav and then opened it in Goldwave so I could get the exact measurements.  The difference in the left/right channels are not enough to be heard but concern me as they should be exactly the same considering I'm mixing down mono tracks to a stereo track.
 
This time I rolled back to an earlier version 2016.10 and it didn't "fix" it like it did before (maybe I need to roll back further). 
 
The utility that converts to stereo in the Bounce to Track(s) mixdown function does not create the same level stereo tracks.  If I knew where that was possibly I could replace that with the same function in my other Win 10/Sonar configuration as it doesn't have the problem.  Or something in the Bounce to Track(s) is where the problem is and not the stereo conversion as I can mixdown to a mono track and then convert the mono track to stereo and its OK - both tracks are the same.  I use defaults in the Bounce to Track(s).
 
A Complete uninstall of Sonar is out of the question as I would probably lose some older VST's.  The install I have was "upgrade" from X3 (and X3 is still installed).
2017/02/27 09:01:30
fireberd
Update.  I rolled back to 2016.09 and the levels are exactly the same. 
 
I'm going to delete the 2017.01 image that CCC stores, upgrade to the 2017.01 which will force it to download a new copy and then see how the levels are.
 
EDIT: I upgraded to 2017.01 (CCC downloaded new image) and the level difference is back.  Rolled back to the 2016.09 and all is well.   
 
 
2017/02/27 15:17:54
ampfixer
IS it a bug, or the unintended consequence of continuous development?
2017/02/28 06:38:50
fireberd
I would say its a bug, in mine.  I can "workaround" by mixing down my mono tracks to a new mono track instead of stereo and then converting to stereo (two track) in the mixed down track. But its not a fix. 
 
If I want to pan some of the mono tracks (and I do that at times) then mixdown I need to use stereo, and then the (small) level problem.
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