jb101
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 11:27:40
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It still makes me "jump" when the tail end of, for example, a piano chord sounds when I press play.
I do think this is a great development.
Oh, and I call it Nigel...
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 11:41:15
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jsg
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 12:49:25
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MIDI note event chase is a welcome addition, will be a big time saver when working on pieces with long notes.
However, I won't be able to take advantage of it because the copy-paste bug that occurs in both event list and staff view and has been reported by numerous people, hasn't been fixed. I cannot understand such a high priority bug being ignored.
In contrast, I just started using MIR convolution reverb for my VSL library. I found a bug in the demo on Friday. I reported it on Saturday. I got a response on Monday that that developers confirmed the bug. This morning I got a beta with the bug fix. All in 3 days. Now there's a software company that really cares about fixing bugs promptly. If only Cakewalk could react like that...
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 14:24:23
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How many lines of code in the MIR plugin vs. SONAR and all Cakewalk-owned plugins would you guess?
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jsg
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 14:31:45
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brundlefly
How many lines of code in the MIR plugin vs. SONAR and all Cakewalk-owned plugins would you guess?
I have no idea. I do know that MIR utilizes over 5000 samples of various halls and rooms, and I know that what is different between the two companies is the concept of service. I looked over my bug reports to CW and some are 5 years old that have not been fixed. When I email VSL regarding a question or problem, I always get a response within 24 hours, often much less. CW might respond to an email 6 weeks after it was written and, as we all know, CW's phone support is pretty much gone. There's the software, and there's the culture of the people who make the software. The latter always impacts the former for better or worse. I don't mean to be critical of such exceptionally talented, hardworking and good people, I know the economic conditions are always a pressure. But how about just devote 2 or 3 updates only fixing bugs, no new features, no new functionality, just repair what is already there? I can't be the only person who is saying this, each in our own way. When I get an update I don't think "wow! what else can I do with this software", instead I expectantly hope one of the bugs was fixed and new ones were not added. Sometimes too much is too much. When a DAW does the following really well, 1) record and edit midi, record and edit audio, handle plugins and is stable and doesn't crash, why not just create another program to do different things? Making a program so big seems to invite more complexity and more chances of errors. Please fix the bugs in staff view, the event list and giving MIDI the attention it deserves. Jerry
post edited by jsg - 2017/01/24 23:21:10
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 16:17:49
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jsg
There's the software, and there's the culture of the people who make the software. The latter always impacts the former for better or worse.
There is also the price and profitability of the software, and how many developers and support personnel can be funded by the available revenue stream. VSL is high-end stuff in a very focused area of the music-production market with what I would guess is a relatively small number of users paying a premium for a premium product. And when something is wrong, it affects all or most users because the feature set is small, and most users use most features with high frequency. And without knowing exact numbers, I think there's no question that the amount of code that VSL has to maintain is nothing like the amount (and complexity) of code that Cakewalk has to contend with. I for one am confident that Cake's lack of responsiveness in certain areas/instances, especially of late, is most likely due to resource constraints rather than to lack of a sufficient culture of service. When resources are limited, everything gets to be about priorities. I think it's pretty clear that the great majority of SONAR users do not spend much, if any, time in the Staff and Event Views, and the number of intensive users of these views is quite small.
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jsg
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 20:05:45
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☄ Helpfulby rtucker55 2017/01/24 22:19:30
brundlefly
jsg
There's the software, and there's the culture of the people who make the software. The latter always impacts the former for better or worse.
There is also the price and profitability of the software, and how many developers and support personnel can be funded by the available revenue stream. VSL is high-end stuff in a very focused area of the music-production market with what I would guess is a relatively small number of users paying a premium for a premium product. And when something is wrong, it affects all or most users because the feature set is small, and most users use most features with high frequency. And without knowing exact numbers, I think there's no question that the amount of code that VSL has to maintain is nothing like the amount (and complexity) of code that Cakewalk has to contend with.
I for one am confident that Cake's lack of responsiveness in certain areas/instances, especially of late, is most likely due to resource constraints rather than to lack of a sufficient culture of service. When resources are limited, everything gets to be about priorities. I think it's pretty clear that the great majority of SONAR users do not spend much, if any, time in the Staff and Event Views, and the number of intensive users of these views is quite small.
What evidence is there to say the event list is not used by many users? I've been using Sonar since 1992 and I have no idea how many users use the event list or not. We've had plenty of discussions about the staff view, but the event list? It's not clear at all to me that people are not using it. If the same paste bug occurs in at least two views, and probably more, I'd think it would be a high priority, since it is not merely a cosmetic bug but clearly affects functionality.
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bitman
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 21:39:23
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jsg
brundlefly
jsg
There's the software, and there's the culture of the people who make the software. The latter always impacts the former for better or worse.
There is also the price and profitability of the software, and how many developers and support personnel can be funded by the available revenue stream. VSL is high-end stuff in a very focused area of the music-production market with what I would guess is a relatively small number of users paying a premium for a premium product. And when something is wrong, it affects all or most users because the feature set is small, and most users use most features with high frequency. And without knowing exact numbers, I think there's no question that the amount of code that VSL has to maintain is nothing like the amount (and complexity) of code that Cakewalk has to contend with.
I for one am confident that Cake's lack of responsiveness in certain areas/instances, especially of late, is most likely due to resource constraints rather than to lack of a sufficient culture of service. When resources are limited, everything gets to be about priorities. I think it's pretty clear that the great majority of SONAR users do not spend much, if any, time in the Staff and Event Views, and the number of intensive users of these views is quite small.
What evidence is there to say the event list is not used by many users? I've been using Sonar since 1992 and I have no idea how many users use the event list or not. We've had plenty of discussions about the staff view, but the event list? It's not clear at all to me that people are not using it. If the same paste bug occurs in at least two views, and probably more, I'd think it would be a high priority, since it is not merely a cosmetic bug but clearly affects functionality.
I have only used the event list to find seemingly rouge events. like once.
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rtucker55
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/24 22:27:58
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I use event list frequently and it is always tabbed in the dock as part of my standard template.
Purrrfect Audio DAW here. Wow!...
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brundlefly
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 01:56:02
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jsg
We've had plenty of discussions about the staff view, but the event list?
Exactly my point. Just compare the number of threads and posts about working in the PRV with the number about working in the Event List, and note how few people have mentioned the 'Starting Track Paste' problem or responded to your original post about it. The Event List's heyday was in Cakewalk for DOS. Most users have no interest in working with raw 'data' and typing in values. They want sophisticated, mouse-driven graphical interfaces. Whatever you do, don't suggest anyone use Find/Replace. Even renaming it from 'Interpolate' couldn't save it from the dustbin of MIDI-editing history. 
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 06:29:33
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what's an event list ? 
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navarro.hicks
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 10:13:47
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No offense intended but I also use the event list view alot. It is pretty essential to my workflow.
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tenfoot
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 10:58:09
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☄ Helpfulby rtucker55 2017/01/25 11:08:15
Having loaded up the early release yesterday I too am loving note chase. I use event list a lot too for editing patch changes on external gear like mixers and guitar processors amongst other things. I do a bit of copying and pasting in it, but clearly not enough to have discovered the bug. Ignorance is bliss I guess:)
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sharke
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 11:23:47
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I think the event list is a specialized feature that's used by a small minority of users. Personally I've never found a use for it, and most of my projects are very MIDI heavy. However I can imagine that if you're working with large, complicated orchestral scores driving orchestral VSTi's with very intricate MIDI programming then it would be essential. For my purposes, I see it as a "debugging" tool which is nice to have handy if I need it, which I never have.
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SquireBum
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Re: MIDI Note Event Chase on Play
2017/01/25 11:26:05
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Since this thread has already been derailed and is no longer on-topic, the copy/paste bug referenced by Jerry is not specific to Event List or Staff View. It will affect anyone who uses Paste Special and the Destination Track field. For example, you can no longer copy clips from Track 1 to Track 99 using Paste Special without having to navigate to Track 99 and put the track into focus. This is a regression bug that occurred in SONAR 2016.08 and was first reported in the Problem Reports forum here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3506138. I can only speculate that the work on Ripple Editing involves a lot of changes and possibly a complete re-write of the Copy/Cut/Paste logic and that the bug lives in the code that is being re-worked. Sorry for adding to the OT status of this thread, but I wanted to provide clarification of the issue. Now, back to your regular program. Hope this helps, -- Ron
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