Helpful ReplyMan... Sonar died to me quickly

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Enigmatic
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2018/01/12 20:06:24 (permalink)

Man... Sonar died to me quickly

After trying Studio One 3.... I have to say I'm kinda glad Sonar died... I never knew there was such a perfect daw availible... I've been with Cakewalk since 2000ish.  I was hardcore. There were things that bugged me about Sonar but Studio pne Made them much more glaring...
 
Now... 
My X-Touch actually works and the buttons make sense
 
My BCR2000 is fully functional
 
Routing makes much more sense (the detachment of channels and tracks is amazing
 
recordable Inserts on Inputs! I never imagined this was possible in a daw! I can record real time effects all in zero latency with a behringer interface.
 
USEFUL Midi FX
 
And oMG the MACROS..... 
 
Its amazing when the #1 thing I miss from Sonar is the fully customizable Plugin list... 
 
If I didnt have all of the projects I have for Sonar I would have uninstalled it already
 
Sorry for the rant... I had to share my excitement somewhere... My wife doesn't give a **** 
#1
Marshall
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/12 20:54:33 (permalink)
Enigmatic

 
.... I had to share my excitement somewhere... My wife doesn't give a **** 


Ha ha I get that bit! I'm a long term Sonar inmate turned new Studio One fanboy too.
#2
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/12 21:14:28 (permalink)
All I'm missing from Sonar is track templates, better meters and gain knobs, the last two can be worked around...I think plugin performance is better in Sonar but I have a suspicion that's gonna be dealt within this year. Otherwise I have better stability and workflow with Studio One.. very happy.
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azslow3
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/12 21:39:23 (permalink)
Enigmatic
After trying Studio One 3.... I have to say I'm kinda glad Sonar died... I never knew there was such a perfect daw availible... I've been with Cakewalk since 2000ish.  I was hardcore. There were things that bugged me about Sonar but Studio pne Made them much more glaring...

I am happy that you have found your DAW. Really, nothing against it.
 
But...

Now... 
My X-Touch actually works and the buttons make sense

For most users it make sense in Sonar as well. With all buttons.
 

My BCR2000 is fully functional

I have very hard time to imagine that someone has managed to beat BCR2000 in Sonar with preset from MarKo...
 

recordable Inserts on Inputs! I never imagined this was possible in a daw! I can record real time effects all in zero latency with a behringer interface.

Surprise for you... Sonar ALSO can do this
 

USEFUL Midi FX

Agree, it is easy to make more useful MFXes in other DAWs.
 

And oMG the MACROS..... 

CAL, API... S1 had some kind of API, but it was never documented and almost abandoned now.
Macroses was easy to make in Sonar, to use with control surfaces.
 

Sorry for the rant... I had to share my excitement somewhere... My wife doesn't give a ****

Please do not get me wrong, I also was excited when I have tried the first another DAW. Still excited by some aspects of it, but almost cooled down by other.
I was another time excited by yet another DAW. This time more seriously. But once you dig deeper, you will find that no DAW is perfect and what you already had still has some advantages over what you try to use as next

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#4
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/12 21:55:40 (permalink)
No DAW is perfect.
Studio ONE though has a LOT faster workflow and is FAR more stable than Sonar ever was, just for those reasons it easily wins. The main reason is though it isn't a slowly rotting carcass. Everytime I return to Sonar now it feels like a bloated pregnant dead whale.

BTW when it comes to software I'm fairly non plussed... I just want to do stuff on it, it's a tool.
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Resonant Serpent
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/12 22:49:27 (permalink)
You can use the folder view in S1 to organize your plugins.
 
https://www.pro-tools-exp...ger-and-other-features

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Rbh
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 00:47:11 (permalink)
I tried S1 early on when it first came out. I found it efficient - but it didn't ( at the time) cover nearly as many bases as Sonar. I think sonar is very full featured and matured - plus it's backward compatibility is amazing over 20 plus years.

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Genghis
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 01:48:11 (permalink)
While I'm very sad to see SONAR and Cakewalk go away, I made the transition to Studio One over the last couple of years.  At first I had to Google how to do a few things the Studio One way that I already knew how to do in SONAR, but it didn't take long for me to really get into the workflow and layout of Studio One.  The low-latency protection was the icing on the cake for me... (bad pun not really intended.)

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dubdisciple
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 02:37:35 (permalink)
I won't go that far. For me, using studio one did help me see some areas Sonar fell short in. At the same time I still notice things I miss from Sonar when i use Studio one. I don't use staff view often but nice having, especially when i am teaching kids.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 02:39:52 (permalink)
Azlow, honestly the only way i got sonar to work in a way that was not totally frustrating was with your software. With studio one i have used 5 different controllers easily with minimal setup.
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StepD
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 04:48:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby galeom 2018/01/14 14:15:32
I'd say I like them roughly the same. Each has features the other lacks, but there's been enough borrowing between DAWs in general over the years to make them a pretty close match. Both have pretty well thought out workflows in their own ways. I haven't really had any wow moments where I think one blows the doors off the other, though. The big bonuses for me were getting the Overloud plugs unlocked and getting Notion for $49.

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#11
Zo
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 15:13:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby galeom 2018/01/14 14:15:44
The real thing iimho opinon is to really make a serious project in it and you will find a lot of unconveneance in S1 and some big , I to discovered and love some stuff here and there ....but as i started a track ennoying stuff get cumulated qukly


1) Mutimbrale handling and the no template thing (Time impact : BIG)
2) Loop Midi takes handlng : i simply cannot record overdub in takes that get mixed in playback , you cannot edit those takes like clips ... (Time impact : BIG)
3) Screen sets missing ((Time impact : MEdium)
4) No docking of Plugin (Time impact : BIG)
5) No Xray (Time impact : Enormous) havng to close , remove , move stuff around because of editng or controls needs is a pain in the a... on single screen set up (the case here)
6) MEtering : Joke , have to insert real stuff (Time impact : BIG) just to know my peaks ect ...cannot use the master with soloed tracks since there's busses between with process
7) No gain / Phase on tracks (Time impact : BIG)
8) No per Plugin oversampling : (CPU impact : BIG) since you have to work at 96K for the whole session
9)Plugin layout : primitif , can't create layouts per production phase (MIX / MAsterng ect) , Plugins cannot be in 2 folders (like FGX for exemple , cannot be in MAsteriing and Limters ect ...) (Time impact : BIG)
10) No icons (Time impact : Medium)

Yep some stuff get 's you faster in other areas , but so far have the feeling of gettng back in time when those stuff weren't in sonar ...decade ago !!

Brilliant stuff i've found supperior than sonar

1) Plugins routing possiblities
2) Structural options
3) Track manager layout even if options are less than sonar
4) Controllers handlng
5) Performance metering details(latency / cpu ect ...the habilty to reach the plugn from there s not to underestimate in workflow.)
6)MAcro Bar : great but also frustratng since only one , no update context based (like reaper) , not diffrente dowkng option ect ...
7)Plugins miniatures : believe me or not but i have the feeling of having gears and not having spent zillions in the wind since years !! (like a real studio !!)

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#12
JonD
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 15:42:17 (permalink)
Rbh
I tried S1 early on when it first came out. I found it efficient - but it didn't ( at the time) cover nearly as many bases as Sonar. I think sonar is very full featured and matured - plus it's backward compatibility is amazing over 20 plus years.



I'm still a Sonar user and fanboi, but let's give credit where it's due... Studio One is now at version 3.5, and is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was when you tried it out.
 
Just saying....

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jude77
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 16:23:29 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
Everytime I return to Sonar now it feels like a bloated pregnant dead whale.

Now THAT'S an analogy!

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#14
Primetime
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 19:05:17 (permalink)
lol!!! wow, thats cold man 
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Dave76
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 19:50:08 (permalink)
Enigmatic
After trying Studio One 3.... I have to say I'm kinda glad Sonar died... I never knew there was such a perfect daw availible... I've been with Cakewalk since 2000ish.  I was hardcore. There were things that bugged me about Sonar but Studio pne Made them much more glaring...

I couldn't agree more. I've tried out Studio One's free version in the past and liked it but never dove fully into it simply because of the years of SONAR knowledge and muscle memory and not wanting to relearn all that combined with the thought of why spend more money on another DAW when I already have one mixed in with maybe some false sense of loyalty. Wish I would've spent more time a year or two ago getting up to speed and then spent the "life time" updates money on the Studio One license. So much that I could've been taking advantage of all this time -- the arranger, the scratchpad, the Remote, the parallel FX chains, etc., etc.. 
 
#16
Jeff Evans
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 20:00:53 (permalink)
Zo

2) Loop Midi takes handlng : i simply cannot record overdub in takes that get mixed in playback , you cannot edit those takes like clips ... (Time impact : BIG)



 
Zo is doing something very wrong here. Loop midi recording is where Studio One really excels and it is way better than Sonar in this regard.  You need Record Mix on for a start. You need to expose the record panel which gives you options. Sounds like he has not even found that.
 
Studio One can record midi while in loop mode. Yes it can record those takes to layers for each loop but you can switch this off as well and just keep adding midi data into a single take.  Not only that you can have several external midi or virtual instruments set up all at the same time and jump the midi tracks while in record and looping. Now Sonar falls over when you try this.  This is a revelation for me. One of the main reasons I use it.  As you jump tracks midi data is just added in on the track you land on. 
 
You can also jump out of record and rehearse and then jump back in as well.  This is really quite exceptional.  But the way Studio One also handles midi timing, the timing is faithfully recorded right down to the the most subtle of playing. Something many DAW's actually don't handle well either.
 
It's too easy to keep rabbiting on about the stuff Studio One cannot do but very easy to overlook the stuff it kills other DAW's at. The way it records and handles midi timing is one area where it is way out front.  Probably a bit too subtle for some to even notice I guess.  Some of the higher profile users are using it for this exact reason.
 
After using Studio One for 6 years now when I go back into Sonar for any reason it just feels terrible and clunky and horrible. This is something many here have not experienced yet.  Because they have only used it for 5 minutes and have got no idea.  But as a long term user you really notice this. 
 
 
 

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#17
backwoods
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/13 20:17:29 (permalink)
I have had a play round with it and to me it is in the same position to Cubase as Bitwig is to Ableton. A lite version which if you buy you'll be kicking yourself for not just buying the full featured program instead.

 
#18
dubdisciple
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 00:36:18 (permalink)
Zo, I'm not having the midi loop problems you are having at all.
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sonarman1
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 11:02:24 (permalink)

6) MEtering : Joke , have to insert real stuff (Time impact : BIG) just to know my peaks ect ...cannot use the master with soloed tracks since there's busses between with process

I had the same issue initialy, until Jeff guided me. You can get the numerical peak values in the meter if you hover over and place the mouse pointer over the channel meter.
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MakerDP
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 16:43:30 (permalink)
dubdisciple
Azlow, honestly the only way i got sonar to work in a way that was not totally frustrating was with your software. With studio one i have used 5 different controllers easily with minimal setup.



How's this for minimal setup...
Buy FaderPort 8
Unbox it
Plug in USB cable
Plug in power cord
Turn it on
Start S1
 
...and there you go. It works. The depth of integration between the two is amazing. At first I was skeptical about not having "pan knobs" for every channel but after using it for a couple weeks now I'm glad it doesn't because if it did I wouldn't be able to afford it and I have never thought to myself "dang I wish there was a knob on every channel."
 
I think I am going to buy an original Fader Port so I can always have a main fader and remote transport control. The lack of a dedicated main fader is my only "gripe" and it's really not that big a deal to me... again it kept the cost down.
 
I cut my teeth on analog consoles and outboard gear and then went from a Roland VS-2480 (and 1680 and 880 before that) to SONAR when my hardware finally died and the lack of an affordable, deeply-integrated control surface always bothered me every time I used SONAR. Now I feel like I have that back and the workflow is working GREAT for me. I feel "at home" again. I am finding I am tracking and mixing songs much faster with my S1-FP8 combo than I ever have before and it's only been about 6 weeks since I made the switch.  Of course, I am still learning how to do things as they come up but so far it's  been a great experience!
#21
Zo
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 17:22:07 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Zo

2) Loop Midi takes handlng : i simply cannot record overdub in takes that get mixed in playback , you cannot edit those takes like clips ... (Time impact : BIG)



 
Zo is doing something very wrong here. Loop midi recording is where Studio One really excels and it is way better than Sonar in this regard.  You need Record Mix on for a start. You need to expose the record panel which gives you options. Sounds like he has not even found that.
 
Studio One can record midi while in loop mode. Yes it can record those takes to layers for each loop but you can switch this off as well and just keep adding midi data into a single take.  Not only that you can have several external midi or virtual instruments set up all at the same time and jump the midi tracks while in record and looping. Now Sonar falls over when you try this.  This is a revelation for me. One of the main reasons I use it.  As you jump tracks midi data is just added in on the track you land on. 
 
You can also jump out of record and rehearse and then jump back in as well.  This is really quite exceptional.  But the way Studio One also handles midi timing, the timing is faithfully recorded right down to the the most subtle of playing. Something many DAW's actually don't handle well either.
 
It's too easy to keep rabbiting on about the stuff Studio One cannot do but very easy to overlook the stuff it kills other DAW's at. The way it records and handles midi timing is one area where it is way out front.  Probably a bit too subtle for some to even notice I guess.  Some of the higher profile users are using it for this exact reason.
 
After using Studio One for 6 years now when I go back into Sonar for any reason it just feels terrible and clunky and horrible. This is something many here have not experienced yet.  Because they have only used it for 5 minutes and have got no idea.  But as a long term user you really notice this. 
 
 
 


Jeff i spent a LOT of time invetigating about my stuff , and tried every recirding options , watched videos , to finally have the confirmation on the s1 forum that i cannot do i what i wanted to do in studio one ...so please tell me i m wrong and show how to achieve it !!

Basically here s how i record my drum loops ezd drummer for exemple for exemple in sonar

1) i put myself in loop mode
2) i records kick +snare
3) disengage recording , listen to the groove
4) engage recording and record Hh , disengage
5) 4 bars of Hh i like bar 1 and 4 , i cut 2 and 3 , edit , copy past , and bounce to clip the new Hh
6) at this step i have to takes layers
7) i record tom ect ...same

Once done i can listen to all my takes speratily or mixed to get and decide to bounce to ine final clip

In studio one it impossible to have this workflow , i handles takes created like audio ones , and their editing also ...

I want layers , and all audible at the same time , ...simple as that ... s1 proposes layers or mix in one layers not layers and all mixed

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#22
BassDaddy
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 17:38:23 (permalink)
Bloated, pregnant AND dead! Maybe I'll have something other than tuna for lunch today.

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#23
Jeff Evans
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/14 23:24:00 (permalink)
Hi Zo. OK I see what you are wanting to do. Yes you can do it in Studio One but in a different way. Firstly I would switch OFF takes to layers because you cannot hear all the layers at once. Simply create one part and record all your stuff into a single part using Record Mix.
 
Once done there, simply select the part with all the parts in it and select explode pitches to tracks.  It then will split all the parts out to separate tracks in one hit. You will now still hear everything at once but will have total control for each part.
 
Not the same as Sonar I agree but the end result still the same though. 

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#24
Matron Landslide
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 02:22:15 (permalink)
This is what I tried to explain to him on the Beyond Cakewalk forums, it can be done (unless I am missing something . . .  I work differently), but I gave up trying to tell people that you can actually do things in Studio One that people are saying can't be done, they will either work it out for themselves or they wont, no skin off my nose. Now I'm just happy to let it all slide and enjoy Studio One myself as I have done for the last 2 1/2 years. I know how to do everything I need to do (and more) and it's an absolute breeze in Studio One.
 
[edit] this is not to say Studio One can do everything (no DAW can), and everything as easy as other products. But I would say for most things yes it can, and generally much quicker and easier, but I wouldn't say 'everything'. For me I can do everything I need much easier and faster in Studio One than I ever could in SONAR, and without all the frustration.
 
[edit2] No DAW can do everything, not even the mighty SONAR, and no DAW can do everything another DAW does, there are many things that Studio One, 'Insert other DAW here' can do that SONAR can't, and most certainly not as easy as the others. If you want other DAWs to work like SONAR, you may as well use SONAR, you're missing the point. Changing to something new you have to let go of your preconcieved ideas, let go of the way you think things 'should be done' or you are going to have a battle on your hands. Clear your head of the 'SONAR' way, learn the new way, or just keep using SONAR.
 
The task in question, and the method describe to me is a lot of who haa, I'd do it a completely different way, which is much quicker and easier, far more intuative, and in the end the results would be the same. To me the method in question is just making things harder, creating more work, but then we all work differently.
 
I just hope with all the SONAR refugees coming across to Studio One, that Studio One doesn't turn into StuNAR, it's fair enough if Studio One takes on some feature requests from SONAR refugees, but I hope PreSonus for the most part continues on it's own way, I certainly wouldn't want Studio One SONARised, or the forums ending up like these forums full of fanatics and fanbois, zealots and users blindly following life according to Cakewalk, I'd be out of there like a shot . . . and hello REAPER
post edited by Matron Landslide - 2018/01/15 05:47:39

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#25
Zo
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 11:39:12 (permalink)
Thks Jeff yep this what i do but it does feet my style since if i want to edit a take i have to explode first ect ...for now i simply edit via piano roll in this mix mod ... like i told you i m back like when sonar didn t had takes lol ...no big deal ...but this way was super convenient and fast ...again i do think studio one takes system is exellent and optimised for audio editing ...

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#26
Zo
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 11:53:53 (permalink)
@Matron ....don t take it to personnal my friend ... the workflow i m explaining is the typical old school overdub beat maker flow ... even on a real drum maschine like an 808 , you edit sound per sound like virtual layers , i grew up with this ...

The sonar way to do it is just the right way to do it , i m not in the debate of witch daw is the best .... i simply statred a projects and pointed out stuff that gets on my way ...simple as that , i found workarounds for some stuff , and none for other(x ray , docking ect) but i m also aware that the time i loose here , i can gain it in other areas ....

I have studio one since it was out , the french distributors asked me to test it and report , i immediatly saw the potential and said that it lacks maturity , but i was impressed by the amount of great stuff already there fir a 1.0 thingy ...

Other the years i systematicaly said to my student , for producer , to consider studio one since it s exellent , crossplatform and the team behind is one of the more reactif in the market as cakewalk was ...compared to let s say steinberg guyz that are super slow (but serious also)

What i m trying to say is that i have the feeling that certains guyz around sees my remarks as bashing , while i m already slowly switching to S1 .... some stuff are just no there ( no big deal ) some stuff should be there (big deal) and some new stuff are bonus versus what i was used to (great !!) .... it s just that i post about the "some stuff should be there" quite in priority witch is just to give that marker to the dev team ...asking for a console in 2017 to have levels , customisation of ranges , types , phase and gain ...i consider it must ...

Notice for exemple for the meters that i pointed out this at presonus forum and not at waveform , why ? Because we re supposedd to go from production to straight mastering in S1 , and it capable to be solid from the start to the end ...my only concern is to try to make this thing better ....

If you guyz recall well i was even more no joke with cakewalk , witch wasn t a lack of ....LOVE ... lol

Peace all , by the way happy new year , health and peace of minds ...

Cheers

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#27
Jeff Evans
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 22:32:55 (permalink)
Hey Zo!. Yes for now I think the workaround is to record your midi parts into a single part but use Mix mode. Then even before editing do the explode pitches to tracks and then edit in the separate parts.
 
Keep an eye out though on the V4 update to come. Many have requested something similar for audio in that hearing layers or certain layers while overdubbing into new layers eg similar to the Sound On Sound mode in Sonar. (although there is also a workaround for this in Studio One)
 
What often happens is that anything the audio editing side of the program can do is often duplicated over to the midi editing side.
 
 
 

Specs i5-2500K 3.3 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport - Studio One V3.5 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.5 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
 
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#28
abacab
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 22:54:53 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
 
explode pitches to tracks and then edit in the separate parts.




I discovered that explode pitches trick last year when I was dabbling with Studio One Prime, in regards to a MIDI pattern for drums.  It is a quick way to separate a MIDI drum track where all kit pieces have been recorded onto one track.  That quickly separates all the kit pieces to their own tracks!  Nice!

DAW: Sonar Platinum; Sonar Home Studio; Studio One 3 Pro; Tracktion Waveform; Ableton Live  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Overture; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000
#29
Zo
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Re: Man... Sonar died to me quickly 2018/01/15 23:54:58 (permalink)
Good news Jeff ....

By the way as i continue my journey in a serious project , reaching the post prod stage , several questions :

1) Is there a way to copy Track names to clips (like in sonar)
2) when you right click on a clip you have the property page opened , is there this page constantly opened (not the ispector) with the ability to go to next track withing ths page for fast editing (like in protools )
3) Mixing scenes , if we close the track inspector (the console ones) it disapear, it will be great to be able to have that list even with track list opened witch leads me to the question : any shortcuts
customistaion to call those scenes ?
4) is there a way to minimise maximise channels in the console view but independatly ?

Need to dig now in the structure goodies workflow that makes S1 as heard enjoyable in this area !!

Thks friends

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#30
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