Ricebug
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Mastering Suite in Sonar
So I create a song in Sonar Platinum and mix it down to what I think is a "final cut." When I open one of the templates available in the Mastering Suite, I load up the final cut and export it. Is this the correct way? Doesn't seem to turn out much different.
Is there a way to import the tracks used in the song and THEN master the whole shish-kabob?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/09 15:50:46
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You mean have all your separate tracks available in the mastering template? Of course it's possible but then you wouldn't be mastering, would you?
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bapu
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/09 16:00:20
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Maybe the OP just doesn't understand what the mastering process means. In today's terms, mastering is the art of: a) getting the sound to reach maximum loudness without loss of dynamics (typically, but not limited to, using a limiter) b) minor tweaks to EQ and/or Compression to support the effort in a) above It is generally not considered an deeper mixing stage. HTH. BTW, everything I've said above *may* be wrong. Buyer beware. 
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telecharge
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/09 22:01:37
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Jesse G
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/09 22:50:16
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There is a great SOS Magazine article about Mastering in Sonar located below. http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mastering-in-sonar I can't display the article because you need a full subscription to read it. Maybe you want to subscribe to SOS Magazine to read the entire article.. I have a subscription and the article is wonderful. You can buy the PDF for $1.49.
Peace,Jesse G.  A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 06:02:47
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/01/10 17:15:44
There's nothing wrong with Sonars mastering templates but I find creating your own mastering chain produces better results (that's if you have better plug ins of course).
1- Start by opening a new blank project
2- Drag/drop your finished mix on to the audio track
3- Insert your mastering plug ins / mastering chain in to the "Tracks" FX bin.
4- Drop your analyzing, metering plug ins in the master bus.
5- Listen and make adjustments.
6- Export
Mastering is an art form. Its almost as if it is a totally different animal compared to recording and mixing.
It takes a good ear and even better judgment. It may literally take years to perfect the craft.
However one can achieve good results as long as following a few guidelines.
Create a mastering chain using your own plug ins. The order of which you use these plug ins is also very important.
For Example:
My Mastering Chain consists of:
1- Linear EQ to drop off/filter APPROX 30HZ and under.
2- CA-2A for Analog coloring= a 1 to 1.5 db push / very subtle.
3- The SSL Bus compressor.
4- The L3.
5- Followed by the L2.
6- Some more light Analog coloring.
7-The Secret sauce.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 06:32:58
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FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 07:32:53
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Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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ccm
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 07:39:05
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chuckebaby
Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
min. phase
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 07:52:36
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ceemusic
chuckebaby
Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
min. phase
Hey what ever floats your boat. IMO, linear EQ is always the best choice. then again im not here for a debate, I was simply trying to leave some helpful info for the OP but I guess I should have known better that some of us cant have their morning coffee without trying to have sort of debate. the typical.. "I believe you are wrong". Regular EQ’s have phase shift between the different bands. When you boost or cut 30 Hz, that frequency range is technically delayed by a tiny amount, which can in effect cause smearing. Linear-phase EQ keeps all the frequencies 100% in phase. In other words, all the frequencies pass through the EQ at the same speed, resulting in zero phase issues between bands. If its good enough for YOAD NEVO (look it up) then its good enough for me. With that said, use what ever you want. have a nice day.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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ccm
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 08:08:00
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chuckebaby
ceemusic
chuckebaby
Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
min. phase
Hey what ever floats your boat. IMO, linear EQ is always the best choice. then again im not here for a debate, I was simply trying to leave some helpful info for the OP but I guess I should have known better that some of us cant have their morning coffee without trying to have sort of debate. the typical.. "I believe you are wrong".
Regular EQ’s have phase shift between the different bands. When you boost or cut 30 Hz, that frequency range is technically delayed by a tiny amount, which can in effect cause smearing.
Linear-phase EQ keeps all the frequencies 100% in phase. In other words, all the frequencies pass through the EQ at the same speed, resulting in zero phase issues between bands. If its good enough for YOAD NEVO (look it up) then its good enough for me.
With that said, use what ever you want. have a nice day.
well you asked...
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:09:11
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ceemusic
chuckebaby
ceemusic
chuckebaby
Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
min. phase
Hey what ever floats your boat. IMO, linear EQ is always the best choice. then again im not here for a debate, I was simply trying to leave some helpful info for the OP but I guess I should have known better that some of us cant have their morning coffee without trying to have sort of debate. the typical.. "I believe you are wrong".
Regular EQ’s have phase shift between the different bands. When you boost or cut 30 Hz, that frequency range is technically delayed by a tiny amount, which can in effect cause smearing.
Linear-phase EQ keeps all the frequencies 100% in phase. In other words, all the frequencies pass through the EQ at the same speed, resulting in zero phase issues between bands. If its good enough for YOAD NEVO (look it up) then its good enough for me.
With that said, use what ever you want. have a nice day.
well you asked...
yes and you gave a very detailed well thought answer. I especially like the part where you abbreviated minimum (min.) that was cool. Its my fault really, I probably should have ignored the last 2 posts and told you guys to use a boss pedal board EQ if you want.  Good luck
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:25:17
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Just because of pre-ringing. I didn't mean to turn this into an argument. But like you said, use what you want. You specifically said you use it for low cuts so I just thought I'd mention it.
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abacab
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:41:54
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chuckebaby
I probably should have ignored the last 2 posts and told you guys to use a boss pedal board EQ if you want.
Good luck
ROTFL!!!
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John
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:46:04
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I look at mastering as tweaking. If it needs more than some minor tweaking it should be remixed. I use Ozone for mastering. Though not as much as I once did. The plugins that come with Sonar Platinum such as the LPs are fine for mastering but personally I can't hear a difference using them or the Quardcurve. But then I cut more than boost.
I do have an empty project setup for mastering and a whole bunch of plugins on the master buss. Many of them are for analysis.
The notion that mastering is for maximum loudness bothers me. I suppose for some kinds of music such as heavy metal rock that may apply but I don't think that works for an acoustic guitar and voice. Nor would one want to do that to classical music or jazz. One would want as much dynamic range as possible for a lot of music. If you think about Pink Floyd and Far side of the Moon if that had been mastered for maximum loudness it would have destroyed the album.
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abacab
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:47:08
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/01/10 16:13:55
chuckebaby
There's nothing wrong with Sonars mastering templates but I find creating your own mastering chain produces better results (that's if you have better plug ins of course).
1- Start by opening a new blank project
2- Drag/drop your finished mix on to the audio track
3- Insert your mastering plug ins / mastering chain in to the "Tracks" FX bin.
4- Drop your analyzing, metering plug ins in the master bus.
5- Listen and make adjustments.
6- Export
Mastering is an art form. Its almost as if it is a totally different animal compared to recording and mixing.
It takes a good ear and even better judgment. It may literally take years to perfect the craft.
However one can achieve good results as long as following a few guidelines.
Create a mastering chain using your own plug ins. The order of which you use these plug ins is also very important.
For Example:
My Mastering Chain consists of:
1- Linear EQ to drop off/filter APPROX 30HZ and under.
2- CA-2A for Analog coloring= a 1 to 1.5 db push / very subtle.
3- The SSL Bus compressor.
4- The L3.
5- Followed by the L2.
6- Some more light Analog coloring.
7-The Secret sauce.
Hey Chuck! Thanks for the tips! Added this to my notebook. It's probably safe to assume that you'll never reveal the " Secret sauce"?
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 10:55:51
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Mastering is to make your final mix sit well between other commercial releases in a similar genre, spectrum-wise and dynamics-wise. That can mean vastly different things for different tracks. Sometimes it means squashing all dynamics out, sometimes there's hardly any compression at all.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 13:03:59
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Ricebug
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 15:02:25
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JohnThe notion that mastering is for maximum loudness bothers me. I suppose for some kinds of music such as heavy metal rock that may apply but I don't think that works for an acoustic guitar and voice. Nor would one want to do that to classical music or jazz. One would want as much dynamic range as possible for a lot of music. If you think about Pink Floyd and Far side of the Moon if that had been mastered for maximum loudness it would have destroyed the album. I totally agree. I watched a documentary on TV, where the sound engineer admitted that the suits upstairs wanted the artists' stuff "radio ready." No more careful tweaking--jack the waveforms to the edge of the screen, baby. You can see the proof by visual comparison in SoundForge of old rock versus Beyonce, e.g.. We're talking Top 40 stuff, so it wouldn't be used for jazz or ( GASP!) classical.
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 16:11:54
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☄ Helpfulby Marshall 2017/01/10 17:02:31
Ricebug
JohnThe notion that mastering is for maximum loudness bothers me. I suppose for some kinds of music such as heavy metal rock that may apply but I don't think that works for an acoustic guitar and voice. Nor would one want to do that to classical music or jazz. One would want as much dynamic range as possible for a lot of music. If you think about Pink Floyd and Far side of the Moon if that had been mastered for maximum loudness it would have destroyed the album.
I totally agree. I watched a documentary on TV, where the sound engineer admitted that the suits upstairs wanted the artists' stuff "radio ready." No more careful tweaking--jack the waveforms to the edge of the screen, baby. You can see the proof by visual comparison in SoundForge of old rock versus Beyonce, e.g.. We're talking Top 40 stuff, so it wouldn't be used for jazz or (GASP!) classical.
Good point guys The loudness war is out of control. The problem is most clients want what everyone else has. you give them a dynamic mix and they will refuse it. Everyone is trying to keep up with the Jones' and take it one step farther, which is essentially ruining good music mixes. I've tried several things to lighten the load but it is very time consuming. Hand limiting is one of them (Better known as Automation) Its nearly impossible to do during the mastering stages though I do once in a while, but in the mixing stages, lay off hard compression and use a more dynamic approach= hand limiting. EQ is another troubled spot for most novices in the mixing and mastering stages. I used to EQ every single track to death in my early years (Ruined many good recordings as it was all printed to tape) however, I found that by using EQ only fix troubled spots and to boost certain frequency's (Example: kick and bass) so they sit well in the mix will take away most headaches you'll get by EQ ing to death. Low pass/hi pass the same. I've decided to only use Hi/low pass in the mastering stages as I felt as though it was taking something away from the raw tracks. giving it an almost un natural feeling. I guess sometimes its what we cant hear that adds to the flavor of a good mix. Good luck on your mastering ventures its a lot of fun and its where the mix comes alive.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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John
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 16:42:43
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The trend according to what I've read is going back to more civilized levels. Also vinyl is making a comeback so that is something to watch out for. A lot of the super loud mixes wont transfer to vinyl very well.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 16:52:57
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John
The trend according to what I've read is going back to more civilized levels. Also vinyl is making a comeback so that is something to watch out for. A lot of the super loud mixes wont transfer to vinyl very well.
Vinyl is making a comeback and im glad. I have an old console model with an 8 track player in it. my wife makes me keep it in the man cave downstairs. the kids just don't know what to think. Now if only Tape does as well :-)
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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abacab
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/10 17:20:11
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chuckebaby
I have an old console model with an 8 track player in it.
As a kid I can recall seeing many 8 track tape cartridges along the roadside, with massive balls of tape spaghetti hanging out.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Unknowen
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/11 21:03:52
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chuckebaby
There's nothing wrong with Sonars mastering templates but I find creating your own mastering chain produces better results (that's if you have better plug ins of course).
1- Start by opening a new blank project
2- Drag/drop your finished mix on to the audio track
3- Insert your mastering plug ins / mastering chain in to the "Tracks" FX bin.
4- Drop your analyzing, metering plug ins in the master bus.
5- Listen and make adjustments.
6- Export
Mastering is an art form. Its almost as if it is a totally different animal compared to recording and mixing.
It takes a good ear and even better judgment. It may literally take years to perfect the craft.
However one can achieve good results as long as following a few guidelines.
Create a mastering chain using your own plug ins. The order of which you use these plug ins is also very important.
For Example:
My Mastering Chain consists of:
1- Linear EQ to drop off/filter APPROX 30HZ and under.
2- CA-2A for Analog coloring= a 1 to 1.5 db push / very subtle.
3- The SSL Bus compressor.
4- The L3.
5- Followed by the L2.
6- Some more light Analog coloring.
7-The Secret sauce.
Great info. just wondering... When you mix down to two tracks do you export as a wav file? you said drag and drop. so? I'm just exporting a stereo wav file to master. Still I'm just winging it all at this point.
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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mudgel
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/12 01:22:03
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Any files within Sonar are generally .wav files.
You can either export your stereo mix and import it to 2 tracks. Or
Mix down your project to 2 new tracks inside the project and mute the project files. That's just a few of the basic ways.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Unknowen
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/12 02:23:34
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mudgel
Any files within Sonar are generally .wav files.
You can either export your stereo mix and import it to 2 tracks. Or
Mix down your project to 2 new tracks inside the project and mute the project files. That's just a few of the basic ways.
So I'm kind of on the right track. :) Thank you!
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/12 05:51:31
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11Dreams
mudgel
Any files within Sonar are generally .wav files.
You can either export your stereo mix and import it to 2 tracks. Or
Mix down your project to 2 new tracks inside the project and mute the project files. That's just a few of the basic ways.
So I'm kind of on the right track. :)
Thank you!
You are on the right track. I used to export 90% of my mixes to a 44 /16 stereo wave file. But now opt for the more dynamic and better quality 48/24. Recorded in 24/48 bit, export in 24/48, master export in 24/48 or 24/44. When I began recording in 24 bit is was as if someone turned a light bulb on in my head. I was like hey "Who turned on the headroom". Sometimes you may not hear the differences between 44 and 48 but there is. (There are 4000 more samples are made per second). I have explored the benefits of recording in 96 but just don't see the benefit for the amount of disk space it chews through. Rock on ! abacab
chuckebaby
I have an old console model with an 8 track player in it.
As a kid I can recall seeing many 8 track tape cartridges along the roadside, with massive balls of tape spaghetti hanging out.
Same here. Remember back in the early 90's on trash day you could drive by any given neighborhood and see a box of them out on the sidewalk. . I found every Beetle album on 8 trk that way. My first 8 trk was "The Knack / Get the Knack" The My Sharona Album. What a great album that was. Still the only 8 trk I've ever worn out to the point it didn't work anymore.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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ccm
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/30 11:36:40
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chuckebaby
ceemusic
chuckebaby
ceemusic
chuckebaby
Sanderxpander
FWIW, linear phase EQ isn't always the best choice for low frequency cuts. But use your ears of course.
well then what is ? (and remember we are talking about the mastering stage.)
min. phase
Hey what ever floats your boat. IMO, linear EQ is always the best choice. then again im not here for a debate, I was simply trying to leave some helpful info for the OP but I guess I should have known better that some of us cant have their morning coffee without trying to have sort of debate. the typical.. "I believe you are wrong".
Regular EQ’s have phase shift between the different bands. When you boost or cut 30 Hz, that frequency range is technically delayed by a tiny amount, which can in effect cause smearing.
Linear-phase EQ keeps all the frequencies 100% in phase. In other words, all the frequencies pass through the EQ at the same speed, resulting in zero phase issues between bands. If its good enough for YOAD NEVO (look it up) then its good enough for me.
With that said, use what ever you want. have a nice day.
well you asked...
yes and you gave a very detailed well thought answer.
I especially like the part where you abbreviated minimum (min.) that was cool.
Its my fault really, I probably should have ignored the last 2 posts and told you guys to use a boss pedal board EQ if you want.
Good luck
Why the superior & bratty attitude? I gave you an answer that you obviously weren't aware of. Yes, I used the abbreviation min. phase, which it's commonly referred too by most. And FYI there's a good reason why mix & master engineers use it as an option & alternative to LP. I won't bother to answer any more of your questions. Good luck.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Mastering Suite in Sonar
2017/01/30 11:52:31
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So the Boss pedal EQ isn't working then ? . Hey im all about learning new things all the time and sometimes I am (without a doubt) just plain ignorant. However it seemed to me as you were not putting forth much effort in to your reply's. If you have a different way, share it. Im not afraid to try new things. I even gave a shot to the minimum phase EQ. I didn't like it, but I tried it. so im not all that stubborn.  But the one liner, 2 - 3 word sentences I personally find lazy. You want to add to the conversation and add your 2 cents. hey that's what its all about. im all ears. But you didn't really do that and your last comment reeks of "im still not going to tell you". So maybe (in this case) we are both being a bit superior & bratty. maybe I lost out on an opportunity to learn something new from you. And maybe you lost out on an opportunity to learn something from me. My apology's. No hard feelings
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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