Where can you get the older drivers these days? The oldest I have are the .46's, which were fine with my AP2496, so at least I have those if I have to go back, but I'd like to have the .27's on hand just in case.

For those of you who are getting the pops and clicks, it's worse with 4.03?

ORIGINAL: keith

cornieleous, can you describe the clicks and pops? Does it happen often? Do you get bunches of them, or just one here and another there? What kind of video card do you have?

I've been using 2 1010's for a while now with no issues like this. I'm using the 48a drivers in ASIO mode, 48KHz, 256 sample buffer (5ms).

Running XP Pro SP1 on a 1.8GHz P4, gigabyte mobo, 1 GB, 4 IDE drives.

- Keith

Absolutely....

The clicks are not often, just one here and there as you say. But they are annoying, and 4.0.3 hardly feels 'smooth as silk' as some users are calling it. Mouse clicks anywhere on the clips pane or time ruler produce an audible click about half the time it seems - and for clarification, this happens while an external MIDI synth or audio is playing through the audio engine- so anyone be sure you test this while playing a soft synth or external synth with one hand, and click your mouse about with the other - that is when I hear the most clicking. Also, often when play or record has just been pressed, a click will be produced at the very first instant that the transport begins to move, and this may be caught in recording, my results are inconclusive yet on that score. Also, on transport stop this same click often happens.

Now to all those suggesting re-install drivers...the attempt to help is appreciated of course, but I want to be clear, I have tested 4 separate driver versions from the very first stable release (.27) to the latest (.51), with a complete uninstall and reinstall of drivers between each version, and a complete round of latency and buffer settings (both on WDM and ASIO) on each version. I have moved slots for the PCI card, manually set latencies for the entire PCI bus, tried deleting audio.ini, even reinstalled Sonar. No typical troubleshooting scheme is working for this problem, and it always stays about the same. The least I saw of the problem was actually using a 32 bit MME driver, but the latency was far past unusable at above 20ms.

This problem was very much reduced in 4.0.2 but has gotten more noticeable in 4.0.3 again as far as I can tell. I did hear a very occasional click when moving about in a track before the 4.0.3 update, just not as often it seemed. The problem had been initially horrible before the 4.0.2 patch (4.0 and 4.0.1), and was most of the way remedied in 4.0.2, but now seems to be more frequent again. Being that myself and a few others had the clicks at version 4.0 and 4.0.1, I am thinking certainly Cakewalk may have changed something (like screen drawing method if I recall) that contributes to this. So far it remains a mystery as to the cause, especially with some users of M Audio having trouble and some not.

Once again my specs:

AMD 2.2Ghz --> 512 RAM

Win XP SP1.

Delta 44 @ 48Khz, 24 bit Driver version .51 (latest)

buffer: 32, 64, 128, 256, 512 (no setting really makes a difference ) 128 current.

EPOX 8KRA2 motherboard --> VIA KT600 chipset.


Dave

Update...

I have verified that the clicks and pops I reported with version 4.0.3 upon transport start ARE being recorded.





Obviously I am now more unhappy rather than annoyed. I have sent an email to tech support, but I am skeptical this problem exists on my end. I have tried all things logical and more.


Dave

ORIGINAL: Bonzos Ghost

I've used the same Delta card (Audiophile 24/96) in two different PC's. My old P3-800 and my newer Athlon64 3400+. I've tried all the drivers in both PC's, right back to the original ones, and the card has always worked perfectly. I've tried WDM and ASIO drivers and both work fine (ASIO gives me much lower latency options). I've never had a snap, crackle or pop. Not once.

From my experience, and this is only based on my own experience, I would say there's absolutely nothing wrong the Delta cards considering I've used the same card with various drivers on two totally different systems with perfect results. (Disclaimer: I'm still using Sonar 2.2XL so I can't comment on how the card functions with the latest version.)

I never had ANY problems or clicks or pops EVER with any version of Sonar and with my M Audio card until Sonar 4 came out. Since then it has been touch and go. I am going to have to get serious about getting myself some support from someone I am afraid, because I sincerely doubt this is a problem on my end after the extensive efforts I have taken. Of course I am always open to being wrong, and I would be glad to be told I was if these clicks would just go away.

Dave

After reading a couple of interesting post, I am wondering now. Who is using a midi controller Via USB?, and who is not having problems using a midi controller using midi cables straight into there sound card?. I may possibly be on to somthing small. I know that USB can often share Irq's and what not. As for like sated I do a lot of midi and was hoping some of you could gather some info using USB vs going Straight into the PCI card Via cables. If usb users are sharing the same problems as others then maybe the problem could be USB orientated, as stated that USB often shares IRQ's. Hmm possibility?.

I plug some midi devices directly into my sound card and I also use a BCF2000 which has midi I/O via midi. I have a keyboard connected via MIDI thru the BCF2000. So basically I am using all types of MIDI I have available. No clicks and pops here so far.

I am using a Roland UA-100 USB Audio Canvas (2 port MIDI) with a Delta 66 using WDM and the .27 drivers. I can use various latencies (1.5msec - 100msec if I want too), no snaps, crackles or pops, in the audio. BTW, ASIO mode also works equally well too. I am also using a firewire hard drive and (2) UAD-1 cards, on the PCI bus, so far the audio in 4.0.3, is well, as some have said, smooth as silk.

Well I have reverted to 4.0.2. Yes there may be gapping in that version but, it kinda minimizes some of my issues. I have tried everything from Pci timers, WDM to asio, in which asio seems to cause Cpu spikes with the same song l tested with WDM. I have all disabled usb devices in 4.0.3 just to see if that had any impact in overall performance, with minimizing clicks and pops, and to some degree it did. Regardless of that, clicking the now time marker ahead a few bars and back a few also causes major audio or midi stuttering at low cpu consumption 20-50%. Audio will jerk time line stops audio keeps playing. raising the latency setting may gett ride of the choppy play back but adds gaps in audio. So 4.0.2 will have to do for now, especially due to the fact I use Kontakt and various libraries such as PMI emporer, EWQLSO gold, Storm drum and others. 4.0.2 just seems more reliable for me. Some may say I need more ram and maybe upgrade my CPU, but I am saying that I never experienced these problems with 4.0.2. Again 4.0.3 is a successful update for most, nor am I upset. I guess I'll have to deal with small gapping issue's. NO BIG DEAL. Just would have been nice to fully experience the latest update.

ORIGINAL: cornieleous
manually set latencies for the entire PCI bus,

Set at the BIOS? Have you tried a program like doubledawg to set the latencies at boot up? My understanding is that hardware is free to ignore the BIOS settings and start up at whatever latency it wants. I believe doubledawg forces the latency throught he OS.

I am thinking certainly Cakewalk may have changed something (like screen drawing method if I recall) that contributes to this.

Maybe, or maybe they're playing with relative priorites of the waveform drawing, etc. Hard to say... but you may be onto something by identifying the graphics. Any click or pop can be the fault of some other device stealing enough PCI cycles as it can a problem with the audio hardware/drivers themselves.

BTW, are you using an ATI card?

Graphics card drivers are a sticky issue. I use a radeon 8500 and I found a couple of years ago that using the latest and greatest drivers was causing audible chatter when moving windows around and scanning through menus, etc. I rolled back to drivers from about 1.5 years prior and the problem went away.

Here are my recommendations:

1.) try the latest graphics drivers -- if cake is using new driectX features, you may need to update your graphics drivers

2.) try older graphics drivers -- perhaps the latest and geatest graphics drivers aren't so great after all!

3.) in the "System" control panel go to "Advanced" tab, click "Settings" under the performance section, go to "Advanced" tab -- processor scheduling shoul be set to "Background Services"; this is very important

4.) disable any mobo devices that are not needed -- serial, parallel, onboard sound, etc. I'd be interested to hear if you're using any USB devices, and if turning off USB at the BIOS helps

5.) try setting graphics card latency using doubledawg

ORIGINAL: BriGuy

ORIGINAL: Bonzos Ghost

I've used the same Delta card (Audiophile 24/96) in two different PC's. My old P3-800 and my newer Athlon64 3400+. I've tried all the drivers in both PC's, right back to the original ones, and the card has always worked perfectly. I've tried WDM and ASIO drivers and both work fine (ASIO gives me much lower latency options). I've never had a snap, crackle or pop. Not once.

From my experience, and this is only based on my own experience, I would say there's absolutely nothing wrong the Delta cards considering I've used the same card with various drivers on two totally different systems with perfect results. (Disclaimer: I'm still using Sonar 2.2XL so I can't comment on how the card functions with the latest version.)

Hello Bonzos, If I may ask are you using a midi controller for midi?. If so are you using it usb, or cabled straight into your sound card?. Thanks

I was using a Midisport 2x2 USB for my midi and never had a problem with it. I've since simplified things somewhat and am using the midi port off my Delta card. Again, no issues.

My system is fairly straight forward. I'm currently using no USB devices of any sort. I have several different outboard synths which I use as master controllers. When I switched to my new rig, (Athlon64 3400+) I made a point of installing just the bare minimum gear to provide me with a lean, mean DAW and to avoid any conflicts. It's been flawless to date. I use a Mackie 24 channel mixer for some of my analog gear, as well as a Yamaha 01V which is connected to my Delta SPDIF I/O's. No issues there either.

I've read a lot of posts over the last year about other people's grief using "this with that" and decided to keep it simple. I work pretty much the same way I have since I started with Cakewalk Professional 2 long ago. (with midi anyways) I'm not a looper. Any midi parts I record, I play live and use Sonar to edit. The only DXi I use is DR-008 for my DFH and other acoustic drum samples. I play those "live" as well, so I don't need all the extra bells and whistles that some people use.

I started out years ago with a Hammond C3, Mini Moog, ARP2600, etc. (You get the idea) and played clubs 6 nights a week. I choose to record what I am capable of playing.

ORIGINAL: BriGuy

ORIGINAL: glazfolk

ORIGINAL: DonM

FYI / in the spring I started a lengthy thread about Delta cards not working properly in 24 bit and there were dozens of us surprised by what we found. Search for it, as I believe it will support and answer many of your exisiting questions.

-D

Don, BriGuy -

If it helps, one of our studio DAWs uses a Delta 1010, and we at first had a lot of pop and click problems recording at 24/96. We fixed it by setting the inputs to -10dB rather than +4dB. We were still able to bring in the signal at a perfectly high enough level.

Best, Geoff

Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info, I do beleive that that mine is set to -10, but I will confirm this. again another interesting note.

Glaszfolk, Mine was set to +4, changed it to -10, disabled my Usb ports just for a test and all seems alot better from my observation. I do think this may be a small part of the fix, I will buy some midi cables and run direct into the card, hopefully that will take care of that. Now my only concern is, as I have stated in an earlier post about the audio/midi playing really jerky/choppy, if I click ahead or back a few bars say after about 2 to 3 clicks. Ex bar 16 to 32 to 50, in those bars the CPU is more extensive when the choppiness happens, mayby due to more midi data I would natural beleive. So I am now debating if in my case this may be a ram issue, or maybe even a proccessor issue. As my specs are listed below. If this is the case, then I have the answer I need which would be. Sonar 4.0.3 requires a little more Processing power. Please do not knock me if some of you disagree, but beeing that the whole engine has been pretty much revampt to some degree it would make sense.

SUMMARY

Part 1 of my problem had to do somewhat with USB and setting my card to -10 output, seems to be noticable improvement for the clicks and pops. Solution, go straight into the sound card. Cost=$12

Part 2 I may have to go out and purchase another gig of ram and perhaps a new CPU, only cause how much midi I do this would be necessary in order for me to totally experience this update. Cost=$350.

So Hopefull this has helped some of you, as I know some of you are still experiencing problems in these area's. I want to also note that I have done a clean install of S4.0 to 4.1 to 4.2 to 4.3 from scratch, just in case some of you may have wondered about that from the begining.

Also I am running power strip, with my Sound card settings at 128, Uad 1 at 128 and my video Nvidia Gforce2mx/mx400 is set to 64. Sound card on Irq 23 Uad 1 on irq 21 and video on 16 sharing with my the USB controller. Only about 10 processes running in the background, nothing else on my system. Totally a dedicated DAW. Thanks for all your time everyone, I will keep you all posted if I find something new. Congrates Cake of this Update.

ORIGINAL: cornieleous

SUMMARY

Part 1 of my problem had to do somewhat with USB and setting my card to -10 output, seems to be noticable improvement for the clicks and pops. Solution, go straing into the sound card. Cost=$12

Part 2 I may have to go out and purchase another gig of ram and perhaps a new CPU, only cause how much midi I do this would be nessasry in order for me to totally experience this update. Cost=$350.

So Hopefull this has helped some of you, as I know some of you are still experiencing problems in these area's. I want to also note that I have done a clean install of S4.0 to 4.1 to 4.2 to 4.3 from scratch, just in case some of you may have wondered about that from the begining.

Glad you made some progress, congrats...

I cannot use any MIDI cable method to the computer that is not over USB, as I have 8 MIDI devices connected to my interface. Maybe A serial cable would work better.... hmmm.

I am a bit surprised about the -10 output setting working. Seems like reducing your output on the soundcard might just mask the clikcs and pops. For my own dilemma, only the volume of the problem is changed by this setting.

Thanks for your posting, it is perhaps at least some new ideas I can try.

D.

Corneilious, about the serial cable, yes please try that, if there are 2 possible ways of connecting any device, it's always good to try both. Sometimes you can be surprized at the out come. Hopefully that will help in your situation. as for the -10, at first I thought the same about masking the clicks due to a volume drop. I just raised the out puts a little, not a big deal there. I am not saying it made a 100% difference , just some noticable difference. I am really hoping that another gig of ram will do the trick.

I had no success changing over to serial port, the clicks still exist. I will keep working on this though, and will leave it like this to see if I notice any difference in how often they occur, etc. It must be possible to fix this!

D.

I have the Delta 1010LT card. Sometimes during recording a track , usually after a couple takes I start getting a distorted crackly sound that seems to happen in a certain tempo.

For example , Im doing a guitar track , listen to it back and every second or so there is the crackle. It never deviates from whatever tempo it is. ckk ckk ckk ckk . Anybody know what that could be. ???

If I shut down my project and re open it then it dont do it for a couple takes. But it will come back .

I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM WITH SONAR 5.

its so frustrating
im going to pt-le i think,........
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ORIGINAL: cornieleous

I havent posted my details in this thread yet.....


I am one of those experienceing clicks with sonar 4.0.3.

What I observe is clicks when moving around in a project. Also some clicks when starting the transport playing. These issues have been present for M-Audio cards since the release of 4.0 when the screen drawing method was revised. I personally feel it is about time this was fixed by one or the other parties. Some users had to put up with gapping, while some of us are still putting up with worse irritations. Now these clicks are not the type to be associated with huge problems related to audio dropouts, etc. Rather it is an annoying problem that is noticed easily enough to warrant frustration. 4.0.3 made it more noticeable again, where in 4.0.2 it had been far improved from 4.0 and 4.0.1.

Anyway, not sure what else to say. I have done immense troubleshooting, including moving PCI slots on the soundcard, verifying no IRQ sharing, four different driver versions for soundcard, every conceivable latency, bit rate, and buffer setting. I have used WDM and ASIO drivers, deleted AUD.ini, and finally performed a complete re-install of Sonar and patches this morning, although that usually has nothing to do with anything. This is clearly not something I am doing wrong, but a real issue that needs to be addressed by someone. I feel there are enough M-Audio customers using Sonar that this should be addressed if it can be identified as a problem with a cause. I will eventually throw my soundcard out the window if this persists, but I also hope Cakewalk can address it.

Current most successful settings:
Delta 44 @ 48Khz 24 bit
ASIO driver versions all react the same, currently using latest .51 version.
5.7ms latency
128 buffer

I hope there is a solution.

Dave