BriGuy
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M-audio users please read
There seems to be more and more people that are using the delta cards and seem be experiencing the click and pop syndrome. Now let's assume that your cards are not sharing any IRQ's. Can you all list what cards you have and what latencies and outs are in use, as well as I/O buffer sizes in S4 and bit rate. This is pertaing to the latest update. I have a small theory but would like to confirm. If this is successfull then M-audio should be informed. I am only starting this thread because I see that people not using the M-audio cards don't seem to be experiencing these issues, as the rest of the update hauls. This is a great time to perhaps get down to the issue. Oh yeah and do you notice the clicks and pops with fx enable or not enable?. I my self am hearing with and with out. Also wanted to add that Iam using the WDM driver with no dithering. Thanks
post edited by BriGuy - 2005/07/31 08:09:56
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DonM
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 08:50:39
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BriGuy:
Thanks for starting this thread for a couple of reasons:
#1 Many of us use M-Audio stuff (I've got two) and use them in professional live broadcast situations
#2 I've been concerned about the Avid aquisition and the M-powered thing that might leave us Cakefolk out in the cold
FYI / in the spring I started a lengthy thread about Delta cards not working properly in 24 bit and there were dozens of us surprised by what we found. Search for it, as I believe it will support and answer many of your exisiting questions.
-D
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dreamkeeper
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 08:56:35
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because I see that people not using the M-audio cards don't seem to be experiencing these issues Quote from Spyda KB: Projects will load but will not play after hitting play button.
- KB
Sonar 4 PE
Tascam DM-24 w IFFW/DM firewire interface
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BriGuy
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 08:57:47
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Hi Don, and thanks for the info. It seems that M-audio has more interested in other areas of the company these days. Now I am not knocking them but would like if possible to bring it to there understanding that there may be an issue here. I guess will have to see!.
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BriGuy
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 08:59:55
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ORIGINAL: dreamkeeper
because I see that people not using the M-audio cards don't seem to be experiencing these issues
Quote from Spyda KB:
Projects will load but will not play after hitting play button.
- KB
Sonar 4 PE
Tascam DM-24 w IFFW/DM firewire interface
Hmm, interesting.
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glazfolk
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 09:00:16
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ORIGINAL: DonM
FYI / in the spring I started a lengthy thread about Delta cards not working properly in 24 bit and there were dozens of us surprised by what we found. Search for it, as I believe it will support and answer many of your exisiting questions.
-D
Don, BriGuy - If it helps, one of our studio DAWs uses a Delta 1010, and we at first had a lot of pop and click problems recording at 24/96. We fixed it by setting the inputs to -10dB rather than +4dB. We were still able to bring in the signal at a perfectly high enough level. Best, Geoff
Geoff Francis - Huon Delta Studios AMD Opteron 246 2GHZ twin CPU Tyan S2875 AVRF Dual M'board 2 Gig RAM, Three Monitors w NVIDIA GeForce FX5700 Alesis iO26, 2 NTFS Seagate HD DigitalDesign Speakers
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BriGuy
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 09:04:17
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ORIGINAL: glazfolk
ORIGINAL: DonM
FYI / in the spring I started a lengthy thread about Delta cards not working properly in 24 bit and there were dozens of us surprised by what we found. Search for it, as I believe it will support and answer many of your exisiting questions.
-D
Don, BriGuy -
If it helps, one of our studio DAWs uses a Delta 1010, and we at first had a lot of pop and click problems recording at 24/96. We fixed it by setting the inputs to -10dB rather than +4dB. We were still able to bring in the signal at a perfectly high enough level.
Best, Geoff
Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info, I do beleive that that mine is set to -10, but I will confirm this. again another interesting note.
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glazfolk
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 09:15:29
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ORIGINAL: BriGuy
Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info, I do beleive that that mine is set to -10, but I will confirm this. again another interesting note.
BriGuy - You're very welcome, but I've just realised that after a couple of glasses of red and watching the Saturday night footy, I didn't include for you any of the specs of the Delta 1010 DAW. It's off site at the moment so I can't check, but from memory, it's a P4 (about 3 gig) CPU and the graphics card is NVIDIA GeForce FX5700. I mention this more in superstition than in wisdom - I'm not a hardware buff, but those on this forum with profound knowledge in these dark areas often point to a connection between audio problems and graphics cards - and who am I to argue? Best, Geoff
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DonM
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 09:29:38
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Geoff:
Thanks for the tip - I did make the change a few times between +4 and -10 and do recall reducing the problem but I have been so separated from that since the WDM/ASIO issue which seemed more important at the time. So..... I switched my Delta 66 back and forth between ASIO and WDM under the new 4.03 patch - pops and click are gone However here's what I get under ASIO
#1 I still get audio card driver bit depth greyed out at 16 bits which I totally hate
#2 All of my I/O names take on a very very very very long name as I have Adobe Premier installed on this workstation and Adobe hijacks the ASIO names and that's what appears when I select them in Sonar (I understand I can change this in the registry but I'd rather put a stick in my eye than edit my registry right now)
-D
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tazman
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 09:31:11
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2 Delta 1010's .27 drivers (best ones they ever released...) 24 bit Delta Panel buffer 128 Delta 1: outs 1/2 to near field monitors / outs 3/4 to head phone amp / outs 5/6 to patchbay for reamping Latency at 5.3ms with 3 buffers in SONAR. Never had any click and pops so far except when I was feeding the SPDIF of my J-Station into the SPDIF of Delta 1 and was forgetting to slave the Delta to the J-Station for clock.
post edited by tazman - 2005/07/30 09:37:29
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jb
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 10:18:48
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#1 I still get audio card driver bit depth greyed out at 16 bits which I totally hate
#2 All of my I/O names take on a very very very very long name as I have Adobe Premier installed on this workstation and Adobe hijacks the ASIO names Sounds like Adobe's hijacking more than the the names! best, jb
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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jb
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 10:25:15
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(3) 1.8 p4 Dells with 256 ram (gasp), on-board sound activated but the drivers de-selected in sonar, and no tweaks running Audiophile192's (48 drivers). All 4 outs are utilized -- 2 wav out, 2 s/pdif. (1) AMD barton 2500 on a shuttle an35 with 512 ram and a delta 44 .27 drivers. (onboard sound disabled in bios) and no tweaks. All 4 ins and outs to a Mackie. Sonar, P5, SF, Acid, Vegas, Cubase sx3, Wavelab, Ableton, Waves plugs all run without any clicks or pops. All at 24/44 with either 128 or 256 buffers-- doesn't really matter. Latencies are adjusted to suit the task performed - anywhere from 2.9 up. It's amazing what those crappy little dells can do and the barton easily runs 50 + tracks with plugs and a handful of softsyths (no UAD though). I don't think your pops and clicks have anything to do with Sonar or the deltas. If your irq's are in order I'd be looking at the video card and if you've done a lot of system 'tweaking' I'd re-install and forego the marginal improvement it provides. Considering how cheap decent low-end cards are I'd pop another brand in and see if I still get the clicks.
Good luck,
jb
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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Dale Aston
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 10:58:15
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ORIGINAL: BriGuy
There seems to be more and more people that are using the delta cards and seem be experiencing the click and pop syndrome. Now let's assume that your cards are not sharing any IRQ's. Can you all list what cards you have and what latencies and outs are in use, as well as I/O buffer sizes in S4 and bit rate. This is pertaing to the latest update. I have a small theory but would like to confirm. If this is successfull then M-audio should be informed. I am only starting this thread because I see that people not using the M-audio cards don't seem to be experiencing these issues, as the rest of the update hauls. This is a great time to perhaps get down to the issue. Thanks.
Oh yeah and do you notice the clicks and pops with fx enable or not enable?. I my self am hearing with and with out.
Can't say I've had clicks and pops yet but I've had to reinstall the drivers to make it work. I still get an occasional message that it won't recognize the format in an older project and won't play at all. Once it crashed Sonar. It keeps changing my sample rate setting for my FW-410 back and forth from 88200 to 44100 and vice versa. Dell Dimension XPS P4 3.6 with HT "On" 2 Gig RAM two Raid-0 74 GB 10,000rpm drives M Audio Firewire 410 & newest drivers vs. 5.10.0.5034 XP Home SP1
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letterboy1
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 12:00:45
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Delta1010LT here with latest official drivers. The only time I ever had an issue is when I tried to use hyperthreading after Gigastudio began supporting it (but not for all chipsets). It gave me massive crackles until I disabled hyperthreading again in the bios.
Intel D865 PERL MoBo
P4 3.4 GHz
Win XP up to date
Radeon X800 Pro
2 GB Samsung DDR 400
2 Western Digital Caviar HDDs (160 GB and 250 GB)
Delta 1010 LT
Sonar 4 PE, GigaStudio 3 Orchestra, Wavelab 5
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MiWi
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 13:42:33
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I have a fairly slow (by DAW standards) PC, and have had no clicks/pops problems with M-Audio. The only time I get crackles is when I overdrive the inputs - no matter the software being used (just hardware synth, M-Audio, Windows XP, Monitors). If I keep the input levels good, the signal is clean and no problems.
My setup:
AMD Athlon 1700+ (~1.5 GHz)
1 GByte DDR 266 memory (PC2100)
M-Audio Delta 44 (driver version is 5.10.00.0051)
Sonar 4PE with 4.0.3 installed
ATI Radion 8500
variety of softsynths
M-Audio ports:
Using outputs 1 and 2 for near fields (through a small mixer). 3 & 4 unused.
Using inputs 1&2 from an Alesis Multimix8 (mics, or guitar amp, or Alesis QS8.1 wet.
inputs 3&4 from the dry side of my Alesis QS8.1
Midiman Midisport 2x2 for MIDI
I'm normally set at 48k and 24 bits
Using ASIO and latency at 10.7 msec
I am hoping to make this an Email and web browsing machine only soon and I'll probably make it dual boot with Linux to use some Linux sound toys. So, I'll be in the market for a much faster and quieter machine with more audio I/O ports, bigger disks, memory, etc., so it will be interesting to see which audio seems to make people most satisfied. Right now, I'm leaning toward something like the MOTU 828MkII or the Presonus Firepod, but just started doing research. I have never had a problem with M-Audio, though.
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cornieleous
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 14:22:13
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I havent posted my details in this thread yet..... I am one of those experienceing clicks with sonar 4.0.3. What I observe is clicks when moving around in a project. Also some clicks when starting the transport playing. These issues have been present for M-Audio cards since the release of 4.0 when the screen drawing method was revised. I personally feel it is about time this was fixed by one or the other parties. Some users had to put up with gapping, while some of us are still putting up with worse irritations. Now these clicks are not the type to be associated with huge problems related to audio dropouts, etc. Rather it is an annoying problem that is noticed easily enough to warrant frustration. 4.0.3 made it more noticeable again, where in 4.0.2 it had been far improved from 4.0 and 4.0.1. Anyway, not sure what else to say. I have done immense troubleshooting, including moving PCI slots on the soundcard, verifying no IRQ sharing, four different driver versions for soundcard, every conceivable latency, bit rate, and buffer setting. I have used WDM and ASIO drivers, deleted AUD.ini, and finally performed a complete re-install of Sonar and patches this morning, although that usually has nothing to do with anything. This is clearly not something I am doing wrong, but a real issue that needs to be addressed by someone. I feel there are enough M-Audio customers using Sonar that this should be addressed if it can be identified as a problem with a cause. I will eventually throw my soundcard out the window if this persists, but I also hope Cakewalk can address it. Current most successful settings: Delta 44 @ 48Khz 24 bit ASIO driver versions all react the same, currently using latest .51 version. 5.7ms latency 128 buffer I hope there is a solution. Dave
post edited by cornieleous - 2005/07/31 04:16:48
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stingie@tstt.net.tt
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 14:42:35
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Delta AP 192 here. latest drivers installed. Latency 5.8. Win XP SP 2, P4 2.53, buffer size 256. No clicks, no pops. Analog i/o.
Nice Tracks Recording Studio. Intel Dual core 13ins i5 MacBook Pro 2.5 Ghz. Quad core i5, Win 7 home premium 64 bit, 8 Ghz memory, 2 WD Caviar Black 7200 HDs. G-Tech hard drives, M-Audio Axiom 25, Fender Stratocaster guitar, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP firewire audio interface.
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keith
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 15:01:55
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cornieleous, can you describe the clicks and pops? Does it happen often? Do you get bunches of them, or just one here and another there? What kind of video card do you have?
I've been using 2 1010's for a while now with no issues like this. I'm using the 48a drivers in ASIO mode, 48KHz, 256 sample buffer (5ms).
Running XP Pro SP1 on a 1.8GHz P4, gigabyte mobo, 1 GB, 4 IDE drives.
- Keith
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psonicspot
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 15:34:52
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I'm using a 1010LT with the 5.10.00.0036 drivers / 512 buffer size / latency 11.6 ms / Win XP SP2 / AMD Athlon 64 3200+ and a DFI LanParty UT nf3 250gb motherboard with absolutely no problems. I can go lower with the latency, if needed, also with no problems.
- Billy
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psonicspot
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 15:38:48
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....... and i'm running in ASIO mode.
- Billy
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HeatherHaze
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 17:29:19
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I can't tell if there are any pop and click issues because I'm too busy dealing with the "does absolutely nothing" issue. 4.0.3 just flatly doesn't work for me. I load a project, press play, and nothing happens. Zip, zilch, nada. If I press the panic button, I can stop it from doing nothing and try to make it do something again, but I just get more nothing. Unless, of course, I tell it to do too much nothing, in which case it simply gives me a rude gesture and crashes completely. Lovely.
AMD Athlon 3000+
Shuttle M/B with NVIDIA chipset
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU
1 GB Corsair RAM
2 x 160 GB Hard Drives (audio on its own drive)
M-Audio Delta 66 Soundcard
)-|-( HeatherHaze http://heatherhaze.com/ "This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." ~ Leonard Bernstein Cakewalk by Bandlab Studio One 3.5, Cubase 9.5 Intel Core i7 8700, 32Gb RAM Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 V-Studio VS-700 Slate Raven MTi2 Windows 10 Professional 64-bit ...and a whole bunch of other stuff.
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DivarU
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 17:40:31
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ORIGINAL: stingie@tstt.net.tt
Delta AP 192 here. latest drivers installed. Latency 5.8. Win XP SP 2, P4 2.53, buffer size 256. No clicks, no pops. Analog i/o.
Same here. All projects click 'n pop free. My PC is a P4 3.0Ghz, HT off.
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S.L.I.P.
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 18:50:22
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I'm using M-Audio 24/96 with .27 drivers. Everything, thankfully is working great! www.slip2004.com
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deegee
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 18:57:16
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It's amazing the differences here in click and pop problems with Delta interfaces. I have a Delta 10/10LT card with a P4 3.0Ghz and HT is on and my I/O buffers are set at 128. The only time I get any clicks or pops is when no music is playing? it's just sitting there idle and every once in awhile it will do it. I even had GigaStudio installed at one time and there were no issues. By the way I do have there latest drivers and the DAW is tweeked in every way possible. Oh, I have not upgraded yet. I see were some of you if I'm not mistaken were saying this started with the upgrade.
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EvilGuitarMonke
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 18:57:47
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I'm using a Delta 44 on an Athlon 64 system (32 bit windows) runing Sonar 4.03 PE
My buffer size is 256 samples, my latency is set to 5.8 ms using WDM. I tend to use 44.1Khz/24 bit, but have a couple of projects at 96/24.
I don't get pops or clicks, but I used to do with ASIO.
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jm24
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 19:15:00
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ORIGINAL: HeatherHaze
I can't tell if there are any pop and click issues because I'm too busy dealing with the "does absolutely nothing" issue. 4.0.3 just flatly doesn't work for me. I load a project, press play, and nothing happens. Zip, zilch, nada. If I press the panic button, I can stop it from doing nothing and try to make it do something again, but I just get more nothing. Unless, of course, I tell it to do too much nothing, in which case it simply gives me a rude gesture and crashes completely. Lovely.
AMD Athlon 3000+
Shuttle M/B with NVIDIA chipset
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU
1 GB Corsair RAM
2 x 160 GB Hard Drives (audio on its own drive)
M-Audio Delta 66 Soundcard
Have you uninstalled/installed the M-Audio drivers? Same results? J
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MKS
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 20:54:52
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My pops and clicks occurred during recording and then were audible on playback. Basically a high pitched click that occurred every 5 to 10 seconds. Barely audible with distorted guitar but brutally irritating during clean guitar or bass parts.
The key to resolving my clicks and pops was to:
+Make sure all cards were on separate IRQ's
+Removing PCI Promise IDE Card - Thus freeing up the PCI bus
+Disabling anything I could in BIOS that wasn't in use (On-Board Audio, Firewire, MIDI, Serial and Parallel ports)
I also used PCI Latency Tool and lowered my Video card latency from 248 to 32 and raised my Audio Cards from 32 to 64. I didn't have any pops or clicks before doing this but this did help **reduce** (not eliminate) all the noise created while opening windows and performing operations during playback and recording.
I have not tried 4.0.3 on our studio setup but it is super stable on my home setup. I currently use a M-Audio 1814 at home.
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emgauger
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 21:52:46
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I agree that there is something screwy going on with Delta 1010 drivers. My system is a Carillon Music PC running Sonar 4 Producer, factory-built and optimized for audio. It has a 3.06 P4 and a gig of RAM. Following the M-Audio instructions very closely again and again, I uninstalled and reinstalled the LATEST (as of last week) driver and continued having the same problem again and again, namely that the Delta Control Panel shows fully maxed out channels on H/W In 1/2 through 7/8. Usually I can fix this by doing my regular level-setting procedure and running some sound through it, but it has created some awful noise from time to time.
It isn't the clicks and pops problem, but appears nevertheless to be a driver issue and there is no M-Audio forum that I can find. Inquiries submitted to Tech Support get replies like "Did you try re-installing the drivers...?" Maybe other users with the clicks and pops should try the total uninstall and reinstall just to rule that out.
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DumbKidFromHell
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 22:12:28
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Try the m-audio .27 drivers. They've always worked the best for me......
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Guitslinger
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RE: M-audio users please read
2005/07/30 22:24:21
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ORIGINAL: HeatherHaze
I can't tell if there are any pop and click issues because I'm too busy dealing with the "does absolutely nothing" issue. 4.0.3 just flatly doesn't work for me. I load a project, press play, and nothing happens. Zip, zilch, nada. Every time I install a new version of Sonar or an update my soundcard's drivers crash. Try uninstalling and reinstalling yours.
Intel I5-2500K ASUS P8P67Pro mb 16gb Corsair Vengeance RAM ASUS EN210 silent GPU Hyper 212+ CPU fan Fractal Audio midtower case Corsair TX650 PSU ASUS blueray optical dr WD 500gb SATA hard drive x 2 Windows 7 Professional Focusrite Saffire Pro 40
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