Mic suggestions

Hey guys, I'm looking for suggestions on a mic for recording vocals and acoustic guitar.  Mostly vocals.  I was looking at a http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/neumann-tlm-103-condenser-microphone Neumann 103 Large Diaphram.  My budget is around $1,000 USD so this seems to fit into that catagory.
 
I have read great reviews and wonder if it's the best in my price range for my needs.  Anyone have any other suggestions or thoughts?

For that money I'd look at the Bock 195.

@

i've been using a ksm44 of late, and this has become my go-to mic.

with it's multi pattern, i'm finding that it fills a lot of shoes.

and it will handle whisper vocals, up to serious girthy loud vox ala jim morrison

Can't tell you, but Neumann mics (which I recently found out) is made by Sennheiser and Sennheiser's are their kind of like cheap mic. I now have the cheap ($300) MK4 Sennheiser, and Sennheiser use to have a model that cost around (I am guessing or thinking) $995 there for awhile. The MK4 did not include a pop filter or a wind screen (that is extra) and Neumann also has the 102 mic.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TLM102/
http://www.sweetwater.com.tore/detail/TLM103Anniv/
http://www.sweetwater.com.tore/detail/TLM103Anniv/

those mics are all cardoid patterns.
It sounds alright and can be equalized out so it's good enough for me.
Perhaps you really want a ribbon mic, but I am sure those cost quite a bit for a good one, just like a really good condenser.

http://www.sweetwater.com/c403--Ribbon_Microphones

Perhaps searching for test reports may help also.

I check the price there that is stated in your post. Mine (MK4) only has a 3db presence boost from 5k up to 10k and a gold sputtered diaphramm so I guess there is not all that much difference. Made in the same facility as the Neumann mics also, but I sure you get what you pay for. Only problem probably is the pickup pattern of the mics being all the same - cardoid pattern where as a ribbon mic might have a couple of patterns called a figure 8 pattern and a cardoid pattern. Actually for live sound a hypercardoid pattern is better for vocals but then the cardoid works fine for the most part in less then optimum recording conditions.

Well, can't advise you anyway, so reviews may be helpful to look up.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TLM103/

Oh, I see, one is a anniversary edition while the other like you posted in the first post is not. (??) I don't think you get a shock mount (mine cost $100 extra) or a windscreen or pop filter (which also adds to the price) and especially needed for vocals.

You don't want to pop into the mic with your b's and p's and for sibilance of your voice, going to the side a little bit helps with that. All things I did not know before but just found out recently.

LpMike75


Thanks for the suggestions guys.  During my research today I've learned that sometimes a high end mic will not be the better choice if your room isnt treated right.  Makes me wonder if I should get something like the Shure SM7 instead.  I dont know how well its going to be for acoustic guitars and vocals though. 

Plus I need it for things like tamborine, shakers, etc...percussion that you cant midi too well.  My current SM57 isnt so great for those instaces

then I will add my vote for the Shure KSM-44 that batsbrew suggested.  I don't have it myself, I have it's little brother, the KSM-27, but if I were to spend $1k on a mic, it would likely be the KSM-44.  excellent multipurpose mic!

LpMike75


Makes me wonder if I should get something like the Shure SM7 instead.  I dont know how well its going to be for acoustic guitars and vocals though. 

 

If the SM57 is your only mic, I'd skip the SM7b this time around. It will basically to the SM57 job but a little better, especially for vocals. The SM7 or even SM57 can be great for recording rythm acoustic for a busy rock mix, but they won't capture the "whole instrument" the way a condenser does.
 
The KSM44 would probably be a good choice and it's multipattern! Another classic contender would be the AKG c414 (different models, all multipattern).

i've been using a ksm44 of late, and this has become my go-to mic.

 
+1

I think I got my KSM44 from Full Compass at a pretty good price.  You might want to check them out.

So I ordered the Shure KSM 44a based on the above suggestions and all the research I could muster.  I also ordered one of those reflection filter doohickees so hopefully I can block out the fan noise from my computer (7 fan noises actually).  With my SM 58 that wasnt a concern.

I heard some mic shootouts on gearslutz and the Shure sounded great.  The reviews from the Brock 195 were mostly good as well, except there was a constant theme of it coloring things too much in the high end. 

So it will arrive on Friday and I will let you guys know how it compares to my SM58.  Maybe Ill do a little mic shootout to see the difference between the two and with/without the reflection filter.  My M-Audio 610 mic pre's are not world class but they are decent for the home studio from everything I have read.  I hope they can do the mic some justice.

I have a SM58, why do you think I bought a new condenser mic in the first place? There is no comparison.

And I do not quite agree with everything stated about reflection filter doohickee - if that means a pop filter.

I know since I now own a condenser mic, that if even a nose length away, most (well all) noise can be cut out (not picked up in a less then optimum recording environment) with the pop filter either up against the mic or about a 1/4" inch away. The voice is about an inch away. Oh, and yes, it will sound the same if you are 6-8 inches away also, but then 2 feet away, and if the input preamps gain for the mic is set correctly, then it will not pick up any noise (unless some negative muffler car or something else disturbs the usual environment or like a furnance running and making noise) if the mic is placed and set that way so as to not pick up noise from other sources especially with a cardiod pattern.

Now, the guitar is proabably going to be quite different but same rules apply. Gaining the mic critically will help with any noise as an outside influence.
And well VU meters help to see if any noise is there by those moving anyway, so as to tell before recording especially with Sonar.

Not good recording conditions at any time, and not a good singing voice at all most of the time (with a cold) but since I do not have the version with the SM58 you will probably not hear the difference, as in - just throw the mic in the case and forget it probably forever, unless playing in a band that may just happen to use it, for some reason unknown anymore to me - because before many years ago, that was about it for microphones in that regard, and compared to a condenser, it just sucks.

so this is not a great example except to show that noise was not picked up with my lousy voice version (since then I have rerecorded it a few more times (since cold and sinus ventures were around but I have not posted the newer version) because actually the song is not finished as to all the instruments (well guitar). Since I am older and did have a heart attack (with asthma that comes with that - well clogged arteries) that my voice will never be that strong as it was years ago probably. I just do this to do something since retiring early and it keeps me busy. Tired of explaining anymore: (read I need more practice)
http://www.fileswap.com/d...RidersofStorm.wav.html

and that is the sort of cheap MK4 Sennheiser, so yours should probably be smoother, but I guaranttee that I was no more than in inch away from the condenser mic except backing away at the end to about 6-8 inches away, but I was also inputting it into a TC Helicon Voiceworks into Presonnus studio channels to get more low end for the mic, both L and R channels into stereo, but since then have more left the mic just flat except for adding low-mid equalization for the mic. They are surely not like the SM58 up close with the proximity effect, but stay that way all the way back to wherever you end up singing (which in my case can be 8 inches away at the extreme distance). For a guitar that may be a couple of feet I suppose just guessing. Well, enough rambling I'm out of here.

Oh, a better recording environment would help but that is life as it is right now, less than optimum anything in that respect. There are also other people who have done that also in a environment like what I have also. Soon you will noises that you never knew perhaps you have trying to record, usually just get the mic set correctly as to the input gain of the mic and forget what you pick up hearing because the mic if set correctly will not pick it up unless you like to be too far away singing or recording anything, including computer fan noise perhaps or anything else that your ears will start hearing.
Of course too much outside noise, and it has to be done over, but a good 6 minutes of the normal noise will do usually for just one song or so.

Sven is correct in the above post regarding the reflection filter.  Different from a pop filter, which I also have.

Sven - Thanks for your thoughts and sharing some techniques with me.  I do have a partially treated room, it still sounds horrible and is far from ideal.  http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2187042&mpage=2 Post # 42 shows my room, minus all the instruments.

Spacealf, thank you for your thoughts and posting example with the MK4.  (My favorite Doors song)  I'm hoping what you say is correct about not having to worry so much about computer fan noises with this mic, like I never worried about with the SM 58.

The shootout comparison I plan on doing is really for my wife, who questions why I need a 1,000 dollar microphone when I already have one that "works fine" and I do 90% midi work.

I have some nicer mics... and I can't say that they sound any better by the time you are listening to a 16bit mix.

and then to MP3