soens
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 6:33 AM
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Hi vladasyn, If I understand you correctly, there are no "settings" per se. But you can change the "visual range" (the range you can see) by right-clicking the meter and selecting the range you want. This is nothing more than a "zoom" feature for the meter to make it more readable. In Sonar all the ranges are based on "full scale". The 12dB "Range" just means the meter will only show levels between 0 and -12dB. If you are trying to verify a signal peaks at -3dB, this is a good range to use. However, if a track's signal peaks below -12dB you will not see it at all using that range. When this happens, change the scale to a higher number until you can see the signal. The meter range has nothing to do with where your signal levels are actually at. Those are set by your recording (input) levels. Verify them by checking the "Audio Scale" at the beginning of the clip in Track View. Stretch the clip window down or maximize it to see the scale better. You can change them by adjusting your input level, or after the fact by going to "Process -> Apply Effect -> Gain" in the File Menu and then Cut or Boost them by as much as you want. Now is when you verify the levels by checking the "Peak" numbers just under the meter (in Console View). For example, if a track signal peaks at -0.2dB and I want it around -3.0dB I can do 3 things to fix it: 1. Lower the fader to -3.0 2. Keep the fader at 0 and adjust the clip using the "Process - Gain" menu 3. Re-record the clip at a lower level Steve
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John
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 10:43 AM
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vladasyn
John One thing I have found helpful in mixing is avoid raising faders and try to lower faders. Even if this means you lower all of them. If a track seems to low in volume don't raise the fader lower all the others. Of course after one has lowered all the faders then its OK to raise them as needed, individually. Another reason to use a Control Surface. I like to at least lower them by half. -5 to -10 on an MC Start low and work your way up.
John, it is very nice rule when you have 5 tracks. When you have 70 tracks, you can not lower every track just because you need to increase one track level. I have to say this again: when they say, -3 Db, it should be full scale. Where do you see settings for the meter scale in Sonar? The way my meter set - it is going from 00 to -39. In that sense -3 Db means something different than full scale. How do you change Sonar to show dBFS - dB Full Scale?
Its now as hard as you think. Using a CS makes its rather easy. I do it as the first thing I do before I start mixing. Its worth the time it takes
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stevec
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 1:08 PM
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus January 26, 14 3:23 PM
Using Quick Grouping for this - Shift+drag select across your tracks in either CV or TV, then Ctrl+drag one fader down - that will do the same for all selected tracks.
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John
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 3:01 PM
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I was trying to say that but didn't get around to do it, Steve. LOL Thanks man!
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stevec
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 10:07 PM
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John I was trying to say that but didn't get around to do it, Steve. LOL Thanks man!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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soens
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 10:12 PM
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stevec Using Quick Grouping for this - Shift+drag select across your tracks in either CV or TV, then Ctrl+drag one fader down - that will do the same for all selected tracks. Of course you could also do this using Busses so your not dealing with so many faders at once.
post edited by soens - January 26, 14 10:55 PM
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John
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 26, 14 10:51 PM
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soens Of course you could also do this using Busses so your not dealing with so many faders at once.
I don't recommend that. You really need to be at the track level.
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soens
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 1:45 AM
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Good point.
post edited by soens - January 29, 14 5:36 PM
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konradh
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 5:34 PM
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Regarding this comment: "Yeah. One trick I'm learning is to set the one track I want to be heard (usually main vocal) where I think it should be, then raise the others one by one around it so the 1st track isn't drowned out." Very good thought. For most rock, country, and pop, however, I start with the kick and bass levels—not because they should be heard above the vocal, but because they take the most bandwidth. I still see the logic in setting the vocal first, although I would not know where to set it without the other tracks. Maybe there is a standard starting point. I have solved my problem by sending everything to buses (except one-off sounds). I then get the mix as close as possible without toughing the bus levels. Then if I am a little off on the peak level, I will adjust all the buses up or down slightly. This is easier because the individual tracks have a lot of automation moves while the buses generally stay at one level, or have very limited movement. This way, I can reduce the number of tracks/buses to adjust from 50 to 5 (for example), and reduce the number of automation nodes I have to adjust from hundreds to less than a dozen. In the final analysis, the buses should not be very far off nominal. (Of course, I could get the same effect but adjusting the master, but I never want Master to be anywhere but 0 , except during a fade out.)
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 5:52 PM
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The interesting this is when you have a set of real VU meters on your stereo mix that is how you do it. If you are starting with vocals you use the VU's to show the first levels eg -5dB to -6dB VU. Then as you bring in drums and things with care you end up with a full mix with everything just hitting 0dB VU. A lot of the great mix engineers do it this way. If you are working at say K-14 then by time everything comes in and you are 0dB VU it also means there is 14 dB of headroom sitting above all that too. Peak metering does not help you in this regard much. Only rms metering can show you this sort of stuff. That became obvious to me reading the books 'Behind The Glass' Vols I and II. It is good to start with the end instrument that is the main thing in your mix. Vocals are great to start with actually. With care you can still have a full mix with everything in but the vocals are still up there being number one. Creating rhythm sections first also can involve the VU meter. You can build all the bass and drums and things and get the VU's just hitting -3dB to -4 dB then you have room for all the rest including the lead instrument. BTW the small mono speaker down low is the best way to set vocal levels on top of musical backing. Many have them too loud. The small quiet speaker makes you keep them lower and much more well balanced with the music. When you look at the VU's you see the vocals are not changing the voltage much or if at all yet it becomes so clear.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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brconflict
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 6:56 PM
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Anderton
brconflict Loudness wars will never end, unfortunately, until a governing body steps in. There's bad in all of that. But, at least we can admit that recordings should be Mastered with less priority on loudness.
You'll be happy to hear that when acts ask for a master that's as loud as possible, I do the version they want to hear but then I also do a version I want to hear. Most of the time when given a choice, they'll take the version with more dynamics. Not all...but most.
For artists, yes, they do prefer the more dynamic version, especially if the versions aren't on the same disc. The most compelling way to win that war is to transmit the compressed versions over FM radio, which tells the story more truthfully to those who will be on the air. Labels (at least some of them) want nothing but obnoxiously loud. But some artists, do, too. I'm always happiest making a good, loud mix, but one with the "right" amount of compression/punch. If I don't have to go above -6db, I'm super happy.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 9:00 PM
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John One thing I have found helpful in mixing is avoid raising faders and try to lower faders. Even if this means you lower all of them. If a track seems to low in volume don't raise the fader lower all the others.
Quick grouping is your friend
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John
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 9:31 PM
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True Grieg but being old and all I am set in my ways. Besides I have to justify the MC some way.
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Anderton
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Re: Mix Levels for Mastering
January 27, 14 11:06 PM
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John Besides I have to justify the MC some way.
That's an easy one. You can rock the faders rhythmically and add life to your mixes!
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