Mix Recall across multiple projects?

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tzzsmk
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2016/07/03 05:26:02 (permalink)

Mix Recall across multiple projects?

Hello everyone,
I wanna ask if it's possible to use saved Mix Recall on multiple projects, and if so, then how?
thanks in advance

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    Boydie
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 06:55:46 (permalink)
    Yes - Mix recall is saved "per project" and you can even have multiple "mix recalls" set up with each project

    Simply save the current mix state using the mix recall toolbar (check the help file) and carry on knowing you can go back to this state - you can also save the mix of where you got to before going back so you can get back to there

    Just remember to be descriptive with your naming - "mix state 1" may not be very meaningful to you in 3 months time! - perhaps "first mix with good drums", "guitar heavy mix", "no vocals mix" etc. Would be better options

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    #2
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 08:57:56 (permalink)
    If your second project originated from the same template or was a modification of the same tracks in the first project, then you can reuse the mix scenes created in the first one. 
    To load a mix scene from one project to another, you can navigate to the mix scene folder in the browser and drag the scene into the second project to load it in.

    Noel Borthwick
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    #3
    tzzsmk
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 09:44:15 (permalink)
    Boydie you probably misunderstood me, I need same recall mix for multiple projects
     
    "you can navigate to the mix scene folder in the browser and drag the scene into the second project to load it in" - doesn't seem to work here Noel :/

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 10:57:18 (permalink)
    If this works it will be a dream come true for all of us who record live bands. 
    In the past there were work- arounds like get the first song perfect , save and delete the tracks to create a template, now drag and drop the second songs tracks into the this blank project. Sort of clunky but it works. The danger was always having the tracks get out of sync.  

    Johnny V  
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    #5
    scook
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 11:17:27 (permalink)
    tzzsmk
    "you can navigate to the mix scene folder in the browser and drag the scene into the second project to load it in" - doesn't seem to work here Noel :/


    It does if the preconditions mentioned above are met
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    If your second project originated from the same template or was a modification of the same tracks in the first project, then you can reuse the mix scenes created in the first one. 



    Here is a simple test:
     
    Create a new project using the default template
    Add an audio track
    Add a plug-in to the new track
    Add a volume envelope to the audio track with a couple of nodes
    Take a Mix Recall snapshot
    Save the project
     
    Create another new project using the default template
    Add an audio track
    From the media browser navigate to the MixScenes folder in the first project
    Drag and drop the cwm file onto this project
    The plug-in should now be in the audio track FX rack and the track should have a volume envelope identical to the first project.
     
    #6
    tzzsmk
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 13:55:07 (permalink)
    Cactus such *workaround* sounds like a really bad joke to me xĐ
    scook creating new project is out of question, let me explain more exactly what I need:
    let's say I was given already recorded projects, with multiple tracks and multiple takes, now I need to grab one project, finetune track eqs, gains, volumes, pans, fx, buses etc. - then ideally just copy those things over to all the other projects - what is the best way to achieve this with Sonar?

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    #7
    brconflict
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 15:29:04 (permalink)
    Tzzsmk, you are onto something. 
     
    Even the ability to export or copy a Mix Recall scene to import into another project would be nice. I'm beating a dead horse with this, but the relevance of Project Sync Groups becomes stronger for me when I see these types of requests. Implementation would be a real challenge I think, but the concept is somewhat easy.

    For example: A live band records, say 15 songs. In all 15 songs, the drums, bass, and rhythm guitars are exactly the same. I'd like to mix once, then copy elements of that mix to the other 14 songs, which would be incredibly time-saving. You can sort of do this with templates, but only at the beginning. Problem is, it's hard to go that route during tracking, or creating new projects based on a template and import all the audio.
     
    It would also be nice to simply select all the drum tracks, Right-Click a selected track #, and select Copy Channels, or Copy Mix. Then, open another of the 15 projects, select the same tracks there, right-click and select Paste Channels or Paste Mix. Voila! faders are copied, Pans are copied, Sends are copied, FX bins are copied over with appropriate plugins with their respective settings, and all ProChannel settings (for Platinum) are copied! If any new Aux's or Busses need to be created, those show up automagically as well! If a destination fails, it's routed to Master, or you simply get an error. Undo might also work here. You just accomplished 30+ minutes of arduous work in less than 5!! (with an SSD drive, anyway)
     
    Now, here's the fun part. You mixed all 15 songs, the artist lives with the final mix for a week, but then hates the kick drum. Go fix that in one project, and simply copy/paste into the others! Swift!
     
    Backtrack
    Noel may remember the PSG idea I pitched, which allows you to create a Sync Group of all 15 projects, and what elements would be sync'd between them. Tweak one kick drum, click the sync button, and Sonar makes the changes to all other 14 songs behind the scenes! Truth be told, that would have been a huge undertaking, but as I mentioned here, a simple Copy/Paste function of selected tracks would be an incredible time-saver for me. If the projects stored the track information in the Project file, Sonar might not even need to open the files to make the changes!
     
    Worst-case, as you can Save FX Rack as FX Chain Preset, having an option to Save Channel in the same fashion would be helpful. 

    Brian
     
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    Beepster
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 16:04:59 (permalink)
    This thread may be of use...
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/How-to-easily-apply-an-identical-mix-from-one-project-to-another-one-in-progress-m3418620.aspx
     
    I was in the same situation a while back and posted that (actually I'm still in the middle of doing the work I describe).
     
    Quick answer is...
     
    a) MixRecall files/settings cannot be moved from project to project (I tried and I describe my trials/failures in the thread)
     
    b) You currently have to use "Track Templates" (unless they've added new features in the past couple months). The method I have been using is to create a Track Template of the "mixed" song's tracks and busses then load that template into the target project. Then I copy/drag/paste the clips of the target project into the empty Track Template (this can be done in multiple ways).
     
    There are a bunch of things to be aware of and multiple ways to approach/perform the various steps but you essentially HAVE to load the template and manually move the new data (clips) into the tracks.
     
    The procedure is described in a few different ways in that thread. If you need extra explanation I can provide it.
     
    Cheers.
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    brconflict
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/03 17:02:50 (permalink)
    Beepster
     
     
    There are a bunch of things to be aware of and multiple ways to approach/perform the various steps but you essentially HAVE to load the template and manually move the new data (clips) into the tracks.
     



    Thanks, Beepster. For me, it's not about how it can be done and what options we have now, but how could it potentially be done to save a sizeable amount of time. Using Templates and importing audio was a no-go for me. It didn't solve the problem of cost in time/work.

    Brian
     
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    Boydie
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/04 02:56:13 (permalink)
    Yes, I did misunderstand

    I agree that templates / track templates are the way to go for this at the moment

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    tzzsmk
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/04 09:39:31 (permalink)
    I cannot magically template already recorded and pre-mixed projects, so I guess there is no solution possible yet -_-
    and it also makes little sense to use templates, because I usually choose plugins according to what it sounds like, not what instrument/mic I use, so again no good solution in my opinion :P

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    Anderton
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/04 10:35:46 (permalink)
    I think the "drag mix scene into project" concept may need a little more experimentation. I had two projects open at the same time, and for one of the tracks, dragging in the mix scene did copy the automation and plug-ins over, but not the console controls. I also found out it's possible to copy automation lanes from one project to another when both are open within SONAR, which I hadn't realized before. 
     
    I don't have time to try the following, but it seems like this might be the best workaround for now...
     
    1. Save the Mix Recall scene from the source project.
    2. Delete the audio tracks from the source project and save it as a template (.cwt).
    3. Close the source project.
    4. Open the template and then open the target project so that both are open within SONAR. If you have a two-monitor setup, you can stretch SONAR across both screens, and adjust the project sizes so each project fits in its own screen.
    5. Mass-drag the audio from the target project to the template, then save this as a conventional SONAR project. 
     
    Now if you change the mix for the source project, you should be to apply it to the target project.
     
     

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    tzzsmk
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/04 11:52:38 (permalink)
    sounds interesting I'll try it :) I have 2560x1440 monitor, so I can open 2 projects side-by-side quite comfortably

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    brconflict
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/04 18:27:03 (permalink)
    tzzsmk
    I cannot magically template already recorded and pre-mixed projects,


    Agreed. This is the crux of the thread, and there's not a good workaround at the moment. Templates is out in my opinion. The process of using templates and importing audio described, I find to be actually more time-consuming than visually applying the same changes from one project to the next. Any way I can slice this, there's not yet a swift, easy way to copy a mix from one project to the next, when the audio has already been recorded. And this is the one process in the workflow that consumed more than 60% of my time using Sonar. I'm hopeful Cakewalk will see more usefulness to copying a mix across a slew of projects, or the ability to Sync a group of projects anytime I need to re-adjust the snare drum or bass, for example. Even a minor compressor ratio change applied to 20 projects within a minute would be quite handy. :)
     
     

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    Boydie
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/05 03:09:14 (permalink)
    I cannot magically template already recorded and pre-mixed projects, so I guess there is no solution possible yet -_-
    and it also makes little sense to use templates, because I usually choose plugins according to what it sounds like, not what instrument/mic I use, so again no good solution in my opinion :P


    I am clearly not understanding what you want to achieve as it seems you want to use the SAME mix from different projects (then surely dragging in new audio to an existing template is a good start - even if it is from one project to another if it is already recorded) but you also want to choose different plug ins and mixes, which is a completely different mix isn't it?

    I am not understanding how importing a mix scene from another project will help as surely the result of importing a mix scene will override your plugin settings and give you the same results as importing you audio in to another project with the same mix scene???

    I am sure it is my lack of understanding in what you are trying to achieve (and brconflicts example about changing a compressor setting across projects makes sense)

    So are you in fact looking for a solution where you create a mix and then when you tweak it - it gets changed across multiple projects?

    I tend to mix studio projects so have not encountered this limitation as I use (and re-use templates) but I can see the use if mixing a live project

    Here's an idea...

    Could you mix all of the songs within the same sonar project - IE put the different songs at different points in the timeline?

    You could then create a mix recall for each song within the same project and export each song by selecting a time range before export?

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    brconflict
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/05 10:58:27 (permalink)
    Boydie


    Could you mix all of the songs within the same sonar project - IE put the different songs at different points in the timeline?

    You could then create a mix recall for each song within the same project and export each song by selecting a time range before export?



    You sure can! And this would be like a tip of the hat back to analog tape and how those sessions typically went. Unfortunately, your project might be quite large and take a bit to load. I do not know how well Sonar will work on such a large file, unless you've got loads of RAM. Just a guess.
     
    Anyway, this idea I keep harping on (Project Sync Groups) allows you to mix one song as an initial Mix for the entire album. Once done, you can sync all the others as a starting point. As your mixing takes a divergent approach per song, you can easily uncheck what is sync'd between the songs. But until the entire mixes of each song are different, you can use PSG's to quickly sync changes from one project to the rest without disrupting elements that are obviously different (such as where one song has a mandolin, but the rest do not).  I'll have to re-film a video of the idea, because I think I can better illustrate it by faking the results.

    Brian
     
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    #17
    listen
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/05 11:08:41 (permalink)
    There are some great discussion that are relevant and add intellectual capital - this is one of them...

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    Boydie
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/05 12:55:47 (permalink)
    brconflict - that makes a lot of sense and I can see the use. Thanks for the explanation

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    tzzsmk
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/12 16:16:07 (permalink)
    "You could then create a mix recall for each song within the same project and export each song by selecting a time range before export?"
     
    this is actually what I use a lot for rehearsal live recordings, definitely neat feature of sonar :)

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Mix Recall across multiple projects? 2016/07/12 22:33:21 (permalink)
    If you've ever mixed a digital multi track tape through a digital mixer then you will see what has been missing for me since switching to a DAW. 
    The digital mixer could be automated with midi. 
    The midi was driven by the clock from the digital multi track
    It worked. 

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