Helpful ReplyMixing in Mono: What am I watching out for?

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BMOG
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 11:13:38 (permalink)
smallstonefan
I use an Avantone and love it. Here's how I route:
 
1. Main monitors (Adams) from the Monitor Outs on my Apollo.
2. I use a pair of line outs on my Apollo (7/8) and use a Y cable that takes stereo TRS to mono TS. This mono signal is fed into one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T9K8ZO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
The Avantone is hooked up to one side of the passive monitor control.
 
Switching between them is a two step process. First, I press the volume knob on the Apollo and and that toggles the mute of the main monitors. Next I hit the mute switch on the above mentioned passive volume control to toggle the mute of the Avantone.
 
I calibrated my main monitors to around 80db with full volume (attenuating affects the signal), and then I calibrated the Avantone by ear with the passive volume control all the way open. That way, when mixing the volumes are complimentary and driven by the pink noise calibration I did with the Adams.
 
hope this helps,


Thanks for the reply I did not know these little buggers are pricy. I will more than likely use my stereo head phone out for one mono speaker to mix.
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smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 11:54:31 (permalink)
I didn't pay that much even though I got it from Amazon - I paid $59 for mine. :/
 
You can probably find it cheaper elsewhere or get one used.
 
I chose it because I wanted an affordable passive volume attenuator - those that use active circuitry mess with the signal more.
 
If you use the headphone out, definitely consider your gain staging...
 
#32
BMOG
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 12:03:15 (permalink)
smallstonefan
I didn't pay that much even though I got it from Amazon - I paid $59 for mine. :/
 
You can probably find it cheaper elsewhere or get one used.
 
I chose it because I wanted an affordable passive volume attenuator - those that use active circuitry mess with the signal more.
 
If you use the headphone out, definitely consider your gain staging...
 


$59 for what speaker?
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smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 12:04:41 (permalink)
ah no sorry, for the passive volume control in the link. The Avantone is pricey, but you only need one. :)
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 12:13:47 (permalink)
smallstonefan
ah no sorry, for the passive volume control in the link. The Avantone is pricey, but you only need one. :)


Ahhh that makes sense I see threads about a using http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C50A anyone have a review of Behringer C50A?  I have learned you get what you pay for so... just trying to make sure there is not a better option that the Avantone
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 12:17:38 (permalink)
YMMV, but I will never put Behringer gear in the critical path of my audio again (I had the Truths in the past, and some miscellaneous rack gear).
 
However, I DO get the need to budget. 
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 12:19:54 (permalink)
Here is a review of auratone, avantone and behritione.  It seems this person says auratone are better but the replies in this thread seem to favor avantone so I will go with my fellow Cakewalkers.  Thanks for all the help with this issue
http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2012/02/06/auratone-avantone-behritone-review/
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BMOG
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/16 10:13:52 (permalink)
Does any know the difference between a the Passive or Active Avantone mixing Cube?  Is there an advantage either way?  From researching the Passive cube cost more.  Thanks
#38
fret_man
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/16 13:55:21 (permalink)
I think you're seeing 2 passive cubes cost more than 1 active cube. Check the fine print. The disadvantage of the passive cube is that you'll need an external amplifier for it. The disadvantage of the active cube is that you're paying for an amp whether you need one or not. I'll be getting an active cube since my other monitors are active and I have no amp available.
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/16 13:57:41 (permalink)
fret_man
I think you're seeing 2 passive cubes cost more than 1 active cube. Check the fine print. The disadvantage of the passive cube is that you'll need an external amplifier for it. The disadvantage of the active cube is that you're paying for an amp whether you need one or not. I'll be getting an active cube since my other monitors are active and I have no amp available.


Thank you


#40
jkoseattle
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/17 13:20:55 (permalink)
batsbrew
i don't know anybody that listens in mono.




Of course you do. Everyone listens in mono every day:
 
Grocery store
In the other room from where the stereo is
Through your co-worker's laptop speakers one desk over
Car speakers while washing the car
Office building lobby
Through cell phone speakers
 
etc. etc. etc.
 
Also, it amuses me when people bemoan things like how Pandora compresses music too much or how the mp3 has "destroyed" audio quality. How good was the average system on which most people first listened to Sgt Pepper? The vast majority of music listening the world over is with crappy audio quality. Period.
 

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#41
Rimshot
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/07 22:31:46 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The single speaker is much better than switching your monitors into mono for sure.  Something like the Avantone mentioned here is really great.  The small speaker down at low volume is very revealing.  Once you get your mix sounding nice on that it will sound great up loud in stereo on your main speakers.
 
I prefer to set the panning and get the stereo image setup before going into mono not the other way around. You will find that panned tracks are still audible in mono but you may just tweak them a little so they are still clear. Then they satisfy the mono speaker and up in stereo on your mains you will find they have not changed much.
 
You still need your main speakers up loud for checking bass end and reverb levels though. The small speaker does not give you that information so well.
 
I spend most of my time on the small mono speaker. Not the other way around.
 
There is usually a stereo headphone output somewhere that will be carrying your main mix in stereo not being used and it will be great for this job.  Sum the outputs properly though through two resistors is better than shorting L and R together.  (or some cheap passive mixer) That is not so smart because you are loading down one side with the low output impedance from the other side. You might get distortion doing it that way.
 
 


Hey Jeff, 
I just sent all my tracks to a new bus. I put the bus into mono and then panned it to one side. Is this not exactly the same as mixing in mono to one speaker? I can't find a reason it would not be. 
This means I can use my system without adding a power driven mono speaker to check mono mixes.
Am I missing something?
 
TIA
Jimmy

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#42
batsbrew
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/07 22:55:27 (permalink)
jkoseattle
batsbrew
i don't know anybody that listens in mono.




Of course you do. Everyone listens in mono every day:
 
Grocery store
In the other room from where the stereo is
Through your co-worker's laptop speakers one desk over
Car speakers while washing the car
Office building lobby
Through cell phone speakers
 
 




i could not care less for individuals who are either stuck in those environments and chose to try to listen carefully to music,
or have actually chosen to be the mighty, the few, that fail miserably in enjoying music the way it was intended.
 
jko, all i can say, is, brother, knock yourself out!!
 

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#43
Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/07 22:57:46 (permalink)
Hey Jimmy. Yes that will work for sure. I just like the concept of driving a quite small speaker that is bandwidth constricted. A small 3" to 4" speaker with no bass end or high end to speak of just naturally emphasises the mid range rather well so you start hearing other things that maybe the bottom end and the high end might distract you from. Also being a different speaker too means you are comparing your mix on another speaker all together which is never a bad thing.
 
Nothing to stop you from putting an EQ over your mono buss either and simulate the effect. Create a band pass filter from say 200 Hz to 5Khz or so.  Keep the volume down low too because that seems to bring out things like vocal levels against the music and also the snare will often suddenly stand out too.
 
Having a separate speaker and also on a separate control means it is very easy to just turn one control down and your stereo mains are gone and then another control is turned up and I am hearing the small mono speaker directly in front of me with the L+R mix already done. I have got it on my table right in the middle facing up towards me on a little stand I made.

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/08 02:20:00 (permalink)
Thanks for that Jeff. 
Another thought, I have the Behringer powered monitor laying around:
http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Loudspeaker-Systems/Portable-Speakers/B205D/p/P0957
 
It has a pretty full frequency spectrum above about 150hz. I might be able to use this at low volume.
 
 
post edited by Rimshot - 2015/12/08 02:31:32

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#45
Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/08 06:38:19 (permalink)
Jimmy if I had that Behringer monitor speaker lying around I think I would give it a shot as well.  For a couple of reasons. Firstly it is a different speaker and therefore a different sound.
 
The other good thing is you can actually mix Left and Right channels in through the two inputs there.  It means you can feed it from a headphone out on your interface etc.  As you have two headphone outs I am sure you could spare one for the mono monitor.
 
All you need is a TRS to two TS leads and run them into inputs 1 and 2.  Or a TRS lead to two RCA's and use input control 3 for that CD input.
 
The fact there is some EQ is also handy.  Leave the mids at 12 O'Clock but try setting Lo and Hi to say 9 O'Clock to roll off some high and low end.  Try and get away from the full range sound.  And yes keep it low as well.  The speaker is a little big but the EQ should make it sound as if it were a bit smaller.  The fact it is powerful is also not bad especially at lowish volume too.  (it means it will never distort!)
 
I have got one of those old Boss monitors with the two 4" drivers in them and it also makes a good mono mixing speaker too although I dont use it for that but I have tested it and it works quite well in that role too.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/12/08 06:51:22

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#46
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/12/08 13:51:09 (permalink)
Hi Jeff, 
Thanks much for the feedback! I was sitting in my studio surfing the web for a low budget powered monitor and saw all kinds of 3mm add ons for cell phones, etc. The speakers were too small.
So I thought "I need powered a 4-5" speaker". I looked up the specs on an Auratone and then it hit me that I have the Behringer sitting around! Duh! 
I will put it up on a mic stand in back of my monitors and use the headphone 2 out as you suggested. This should work perfectly!
 
Thanks again!
Jimmy

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#47
bokchoyboy
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/03/31 16:59:55 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Jimmy if I had that Behringer monitor speaker lying around I think I would give it a shot as well.  For a couple of reasons. Firstly it is a different speaker and therefore a different sound.
 
The other good thing is you can actually mix Left and Right channels in through the two inputs there.  It means you can feed it from a headphone out on your interface etc.  As you have two headphone outs I am sure you could spare one for the mono monitor.
 
All you need is a TRS to two TS leads and run them into inputs 1 and 2.  Or a TRS lead to two RCA's and use input control 3 for that CD input.
 
The fact there is some EQ is also handy.  Leave the mids at 12 O'Clock but try setting Lo and Hi to say 9 O'Clock to roll off some high and low end.  Try and get away from the full range sound.  And yes keep it low as well.  The speaker is a little big but the EQ should make it sound as if it were a bit smaller.  The fact it is powerful is also not bad especially at lowish volume too.  (it means it will never distort!)
 
I have got one of those old Boss monitors with the two 4" drivers in them and it also makes a good mono mixing speaker too although I dont use it for that but I have tested it and it works quite well in that role too.


Just ran across this older thread!!  I too have an extra single Behringer laying around--- unfortunately, my AI is a Audiofire 4 with only one head phone out, and I don't think I would want to be swapping cables constantly.   I do have a spare Mackie VLZpro(1202) available... what would be the proper connection/hook up with my AI(it has four outs) in order to use it to monitor in mono and also in stereo(might as well be able to monitor that way too)
Thanks,
Freq
#48
Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/03/31 20:54:27 (permalink)
I see the Echo Audiofire 4 has 4 outputs on the rear panel. Have you looked into the Console software that is running alongside the Audiofire 4. e.g. its own in out routing software. There may be a way to have outs 3-4 mirror the stereo outs on 1-2. Often these programs running underneath offer some amazing signal routing options. 
 
You may even be able to sum L and R for the 3-4 output buss in the Console software. Otherwise some form of external summing option is needed to drive a single mono speaker.  A simple passive L+R sum solution will suffice as well.  But if you have an external mixer then the main outs could be summed for the mono speaker separately. 
 
 
 
 

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bokchoyboy
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/01 01:37:34 (permalink)
Thanks Jeff... I will look into the Console routing options...
Freq
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glennstanton
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/03 17:04:43 (permalink)
if you have a speaker management device (like mackie big knob or presonus monitor 2 etc - https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/monitor-management-systems/ - i have the presonus monitor 2 https://www.presonus.com/products/Monitor-Station-V2 ) you hookup your single speaker (i use a powered avantone - http://www.avantonepro.com/Avantone-Mono-BLOK-Active-MixCube-Single-Self-Powered-Mix-Cube-Monitor.html ) and calibrate the level to match my other monitors (but of course turn it down via the management device when mixing... :-)). then switching between my monitors is easy, and pressing the mono button puts it all into mono. even then i switch to my stereo monitors in mono as well to make sure... then switch to stereo on the main monitors later to check bass and high end levels. another check is leaving it in stereo and switching back to the avantone to see of stereo signal is different than mono...

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
#51
Starise
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/11 18:44:38 (permalink)
Check the mix through your cell phone. Ok, that's not really as cool.

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#52
interpolated
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/20 20:52:01 (permalink)
So are you suggesting mixing in mono and panning each track until it sounds right. Then turning stereo back onto widen the mix using the side-channels?
 

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#53
interpolated
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/20 20:52:01 (permalink)
Double-post

I have computer stuff.
 
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/20 20:56:23 (permalink)
Panning in mono won't achieve much. Mixing in mono means exactly that. Pan everything centre and mix so you get the balance nice. Then put stereo back on and start panning things around. Some parts usually remain centred e.g. vocals, bass, kick drum etc but other parts can be moved.
 
I dont tend to work this way though. I prefer to mix in stereo and get the whole stereo picture set first then check in mono after that. Often some things need to be slightly adjusted for level. When I say check in mono I mean get a L+R summed mix into your mono speaker which I prefer to be a third separate device.

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2017/04/20 21:08:54 (permalink)
Thanks for the clarification. 
 

I have computer stuff.
 
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