Helpful ReplyMixing in Mono: What am I watching out for?

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magik570
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2015/08/15 20:16:51 (permalink)

Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for?

Want to be able to do a check for my mixing by listening in MONO.. what am I watching out for? Any advice?
 

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/08/16 15:32:29 (permalink)
Extreme tonal changes and/or disappearing parts when you toggle to mono.


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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/08/17 16:03:33 (permalink)
From SOS:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb11/articles/qanda-0211-5.htm
 
From Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/33qtrd/when_mixing_in_mono_how_different_should_it_be/
 
Home Studio Corner:
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/mixing-in-mono/
 
I use it to check for phase issues and to help with track levels. I want to be able to hear all tracks well and sometimes you can't because of panning, chorus EFX, colliding frequencies, and certain reverb settings. It is a good step in your mixing process to check in mono. I don't stay in mono for long. 

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/08/17 21:17:02 (permalink)
I can't say anything that really hasn't been said - but I will add....
Anything I have fixed in mono has made my stereo mix that much better.

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 15:05:48 (permalink)
Hey everyone,
 
I just wanted to be sure that I have this right. I do a lot of my EQing in mono to create separation in that context. I try not to rely too much on the stereo field for separation. Do we just toggle the Stereo Interleave box on the master as opposed to the individual channels to mix in mono? Or do we do both? I'm doing the former but I just wanted to be sure that I'm doing it right.
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smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 15:24:15 (permalink)
I use an Avantone mix cube - single one. I run a stereo pair of outs from my UAD Apollo. I use a Y cable to sum the signal to mono and send to a passive volume knob. My main monitors are on my monitor out from the UAD and I use Sonarworks as a plugin on those outs. So, for me to switch to mono requires muting the main monitors (pushing the button on the Apollo) and unmuting the passive volume controller running the Avantone.
 
Using the Avantone this way has ABSOLUTELY improved my mixes!
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codamedia
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 15:28:25 (permalink)
Amine Belkhouche
Do we just toggle the Stereo Interleave box on the master as opposed to the individual channels to mix in mono? Or do we do both?

 
Just toggle the stereo interleave on the main outputs.... don't bother with the individual channels unless you have a reason to change those.
 
Ultimately - listening in mono should be done with a single speaker that is getting both the left & right signal. If you are only setup to listen in stereo the next best thing is with the mono/stereo button.
post edited by codamedia - 2015/09/16 15:38:15

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 15:32:22 (permalink)
The single speaker is much better than switching your monitors into mono for sure.  Something like the Avantone mentioned here is really great.  The small speaker down at low volume is very revealing.  Once you get your mix sounding nice on that it will sound great up loud in stereo on your main speakers.
 
I prefer to set the panning and get the stereo image setup before going into mono not the other way around. You will find that panned tracks are still audible in mono but you may just tweak them a little so they are still clear. Then they satisfy the mono speaker and up in stereo on your mains you will find they have not changed much.
 
You still need your main speakers up loud for checking bass end and reverb levels though. The small speaker does not give you that information so well.
 
I spend most of my time on the small mono speaker. Not the other way around.
 
There is usually a stereo headphone output somewhere that will be carrying your main mix in stereo not being used and it will be great for this job.  Sum the outputs properly though through two resistors is better than shorting L and R together.  (or some cheap passive mixer) That is not so smart because you are loading down one side with the low output impedance from the other side. You might get distortion doing it that way.
 
 
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/09/16 15:44:42

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batsbrew
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 18:05:22 (permalink)
i don't know anybody that listens in mono.

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 20:37:49 (permalink)
batsbrew
i don't know anybody that listens in mono.


Restaurants/Bars typically play music in mono so the music sounds the same no matter where you are in the place.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/16 22:34:19 (permalink)
Even if the final mix is not listened to in mono it is a fantastic mix tool. If you are not using it you are missing out.

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Amine Belkhouche
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/17 07:00:50 (permalink)
Awesome, thanks a lot to everyone for the info.
post edited by Amine Belkhouche - 2015/09/17 07:09:48
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codamedia
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/17 08:52:17 (permalink)
batsbrew
i don't know anybody that listens in mono.



If you walk down the aisle of ipod docks you will see there are several mono versions available, and they sell. There are people that turn on the ipad or phone on and listen to the speaker directly. As Bapu mentioned already - many restaurants and bars have mono systems and most (if not all) 70 volt systems will be in mono (department stores, malls, elevators, etc...). FM Radio collapses to mono when the signal weakens... etc... etc...
 
However - as already mentioned by Jeff, even if your intended target is the stereo only crowd your mixes will be better if you take the time to check the mix in mono.

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/17 08:56:07 (permalink)
What I found is that while mixing in stereo, there is a wider range of fader movement where a track sounds good - perhaps as much as a 5db range might work. When I switch it to mono on the Avantone, the range becomes much smaller - you can just tell where it sits. So you mix it there and switch back to stereo and viola - there it is. Same idea with tone adjustments...
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/17 10:01:32 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Even if the final mix is not listened to in mono it is a fantastic mix tool. If you are not using it you are missing out.


i never said i wasn't mixing in mono....
or checking in mono....
and i'm not mixing songs for folks in restaurants to listen to.....
heheh
 

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batsbrew
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/17 18:41:43 (permalink)
ok, i just spent 5 hours at a mixing session, 
mixing in mono.
 
 
very interesting.
 
and helpful.
 
it's funny, but after mixing a bit on a song, 
especially if you do what i did, starting off in MONO.....
 
you forget it's in mono,
and find your levels using more eq than anything else.....
 
then when you throw it into stereo....
 
whoa

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codamedia
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/18 07:40:13 (permalink)
smallstonefan
What I found is that while mixing in stereo, there is a wider range of fader movement where a track sounds good - perhaps as much as a 5db range might work. When I switch it to mono on the Avantone, the range becomes much smaller - you can just tell where it sits. So you mix it there and switch back to stereo and viola - there it is. Same idea with tone adjustments...

 
+1, that is exactly how I experience it. My stereo mix is never compromised by the decisions I made in mono, it is better because of those decisions.
 
batsbrew
it's funny, but after mixing a bit on a song, especially if you do what i did, starting off in MONO.....
 
you forget it's in mono, and find your levels using more eq than anything else.....
 
then when you throw it into stereo....
 
whoa

 
Is that a good "whoa" or a bad "whoa"?
post edited by codamedia - 2015/09/18 07:51:30

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/18 08:05:08 (permalink)
codamedia
 
Is that a good "whoa" or a bad "whoa"?


I was wondering that, too.
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/18 11:32:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2015/09/18 11:55:27
when i say 'whoa'..........
 
i mean "WHOA!!!"
 
 
LOL
 
courtesy of yosemite sam.
 
 
i mean good whoa.
 
i typically have zero phase issues going into a mix,
because i mostly track in mono.
 
if i need stereo effects, i use sub busses and sends.
 
 
occassionally, i have to tweak drum overheads for phase,
but even then, it rarely compromises a mix.
 
 
i always check mixes in mono,
because the clarity of a mono mix, forces the issues of frequency balance.
 
what might sound too far back in a stereo mix, may move forward in the mono version.
 
NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN..... for me.... it is an EQ issue, not a fader level issue.
 
 
the point i was making about saying 'nobody i know listens in mono' was really more to drive home the point that you should use the entire spread of panning available in a stereo mix,
because,
you can.
 
and it sounds good.
 
 
post edited by batsbrew - 2015/09/18 11:42:15

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codamedia
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/18 14:01:11 (permalink)
batsbrew
when i say 'whoa'..........
i mean "WHOA!!!"
 
LOL
 
courtesy of yosemite sam.
 
i mean good whoa.
 

 
Nothing like a looney toon quote to brighten the day
 
batsbrew
the point i was making about saying 'nobody i know listens in mono' was really more to drive home the point that you should use the entire spread of panning available in a stereo mix,
because,
you can.
 
and it sounds good.



Absolutely agree.  The end results should be a great stereo mix... A lot of people just don't realize that checking in mono helps you achieve that.
post edited by codamedia - 2015/09/18 14:10:13

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/18 17:59:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2015/12/10 08:19:13
Remember too that putting your main speakers into mono is not where it is at.  It does help but it is not in the same league is hearing mono from a single point source speaker.  Mono means one and one point source.
 
Most have their main speakers too far apart so the centre mono phantom image will be poor and weak.  And you are still getting a form of stereo from sound still arriving at you in both ears at different times.
 
The single speaker should be small too like the Avantone or Auratone.  (I see they are re releasing them now which is cool.)  And low volume on this too.  There are a ton of other benefits to be had from listening to a mono single point source small speaker at low volume.  And it won't bother your neighbours either!
 
It also helps with translation big time.  With care you can get things sounding great on both.
 
 
 
 

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/19 21:08:02 (permalink)
So if I'm reading the above (great advice) correctly, if I get the Behringer Behritone speaker (the most inexpensive I could find) and hook it up via an extra headphone out (ART headphone amp), I'm good to go correct?
 
I have the JBLs and ATH-M50s with SonarWorks and hope to get ARC when it goes on sale. That should be about as good as I can do with my audio challenged spare bedroom studio, correct? Assuming I'm not going to spend for acoustic treatment.
 
Thanks :)

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 04:25:31 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Remember too that putting your main speakers into mono is not where it is at.  It does help but it is not in the same league is hearing mono from a single point source speaker.  Mono means one and one point source.




Wouldn't muting one speaker/panning 100% on one side solve that?

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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 05:40:19 (permalink)
Yes Kalle it would be fine. But the extra small speaker provides some extra features:
 
1  It solves the mono issue of hearing the sound form a single point source.
2  It provides a wealth of other information such as what I like to call the critical mix. It shows up some real balance issues that a larger nearfiled monitor may not so much. It is great for setting nice vocal levels too over the music
3  It provides a second speaker option for translation purposes.
 
And to robbyk yes the Behringer speaker should be quite OK but like all things Behringer it will provide a reasonable performance level for the money. Spending more on the Avantone or Auratone will probably give you a slighter better option in terms of quality and frequencey response etc..
 
 
 
 

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smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 11:06:59 (permalink)
robbyk
I have the JBLs and ATH-M50s with SonarWorks and hope to get ARC when it goes on sale. That should be about as good as I can do with my audio challenged spare bedroom studio, correct? Assuming I'm not going to spend for acoustic treatment.

 
Robby,
 
Curious as to why you want ARC if you've already invested in SonarWorks? I am actually selling my ARC because I moved to SonarWorks...
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robbyk
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 12:10:03 (permalink)
 
smallstonefan
 
Robby,
 
Curious as to why you want ARC if you've already invested in SonarWorks? I am actually selling my ARC because I moved to SonarWorks...


So here's my assessment as to my various phases of mixing (not necessarily in that order)
 
Behritone speaker or hopefully Avantone or Auratone (I agree Jeff, I don't own any Behringer, I've always managed to go one or more better, but now...) for mixing in mono.
 
Headphones with SonarWorks
 
JBL with ARC
 
================
 
Incidentally, I really appreciate this thread, I used to always wonder why my producer back in the 80's sat there and mixed for hours with this tiny little speaker in front of him (along with the monitors on the shelf) and, only, for 30 seconds at the end of mixing, would switch to the towers in the corner which could blow anything out of the room :)
post edited by robbyk - 2015/09/20 12:20:06

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smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 14:14:38 (permalink)
Robby,
You might want to consider SonarWorks instead of ARC for your main monitors - it is better IMO.
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/09/20 19:51:08 (permalink)
smallstonefan
Robby,
You might want to consider SonarWorks instead of ARC for your main monitors - it is better IMO.



I will definitely do so and I will look into this in more detail based on your recommendation, and thanks kindly for the advice!
post edited by robbyk - 2015/09/20 20:00:01

"I'm just workin' on a good life, the way it is."
 
Best, Robby K 
 
PC Specs: Dell XPS Tower, Intel Core i5 7400 CPU 3 GHz @, 8 GB RAM
Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Line 6 TonePort UX1, ART Tube MP, JBL LSR2325P 5" Bi-Amped Monitors
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#28
BMOG
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 10:06:20 (permalink)
Great thread any recommendations where to get Avantone or Auratone? Is one better than the other? Anyone using any kind of speaker toggle switch to go back and forth? 
#29
smallstonefan
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Re: Mixing in Mono: What am I watching out for? 2015/11/12 10:17:32 (permalink)
I use an Avantone and love it. Here's how I route:
 
1. Main monitors (Adams) from the Monitor Outs on my Apollo.
2. I use a pair of line outs on my Apollo (7/8) and use a Y cable that takes stereo TRS to mono TS. This mono signal is fed into one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T9K8ZO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
The Avantone is hooked up to one side of the passive monitor control.
 
Switching between them is a two step process. First, I press the volume knob on the Apollo and and that toggles the mute of the main monitors. Next I hit the mute switch on the above mentioned passive volume control to toggle the mute of the Avantone.
 
I calibrated my main monitors to around 80db with full volume (attenuating affects the signal), and then I calibrated the Avantone by ear with the passive volume control all the way open. That way, when mixing the volumes are complimentary and driven by the pink noise calibration I did with the Adams.
 
hope this helps,
#30
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