Mixing/monitoring headphones

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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 15:18:28 (permalink)
Anderton


One of the great things about mixing on headphones is that for a given amount of dollars, headphones are a better value than speakers. Just as it's common to mix over several sets of speakers to take an average, you can do that with headphones and it's more affordable.

I used to mix on speakers and then do a reality check on headphones before signing off. These days I do the reverse, as so many people listen to music on earbuds.
If you'd had said that on this forum a few years ago you'd have had bounty hunters hired to seek you out, and cure you of your blasphemy.
 
For many of us and the realities of what we have to work in and around though it really is the most practical solution.  I know if I started hanging clouds on the ceiling my partner would likely be nailing other stuff of mine up there with them...
 
Putting some stuff up out there for review, such as posting here in our songs forum, is normally a good way of getting some other critical ears in different listening environments on your case as well.
 
It all helps.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#31
bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 15:20:47 (permalink)
arachnaut


I've had these Stax Lambda Pros for about 30 years. I wouldn't trade them for anything.






Wow!!!

New SR-507s on eBay for ~$1150.
#32
bitflipper
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 15:43:14 (permalink)
http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/beats-pro-high-performance/4852-7877_7-34210289.html

The first 5 reviews listed:

"Extremely overpriced, overglorified and overhyped"
"Truly disappointed"
"Way overpriced"
"meh, you really can do better"
"above average considering its cost"

No guarantee that these reviewers meet Jonbouy's standards, either, of course. They could all be making stuff up.




All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#33
Jim Roseberry
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:01:55 (permalink)
I have K240s (x2) and one K270 headphones. The K270s no longer output the right side. Gonna get that set repaired one day soon.



The K240s feel like an old pair of jeans.
Comfortable... 
I can wear them for hours.



Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#34
wizard71
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:10:25 (permalink)
I think it's useful to listen on all types of headphones to check a mix but the only time I use mine in a mix is to check for unwanted artifacts that I can't always hear when monitoring on speakers. But would say that if you want/need to mix with cans then you need some with a flat response I would imagine. The colourful monstrosities that are beats headphones, aren't the ones you are looking for. ( that last sentence made me feel like a Jedi)

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#35
bluzdog
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:24:43 (permalink)
I'm diggin' my Beyerdynamic Dt770 pros. I picked up a Focusrite VRM box awhile back. I'm pretty happy with the combo. I have an old pair of ATH-M40's but I think I'll pick up a pair of M50's.

Rocky
#36
robert_e_bone
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:27:00 (permalink)
Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.

Bob Bone


See what I mean...

Hey - I made my comment based on personal experience.  I bought them for my son, and he had to get them repaired twice in the first 6 months.  They ARE cheaply made.  Save your condescending attitude for someone else - I stand by my comment.


Bob Bone

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#37
backwoods
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:40:03 (permalink)
bluzdog


I'm diggin' my Beyerdynamic Dt770 pros. I picked up a Focusrite VRM box awhile back. I'm pretty happy with the combo. I have an old pair of ATH-M40's but I think I'll pick up a pair of M50's.

Rocky



I have the 770's also and think they are terrific. Wouldn't mind trying the 880's now :)


 
#38
arachnaut
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 17:57:08 (permalink)
bapu


arachnaut


I've had these Stax Lambda Pros for about 30 years. I wouldn't trade them for anything.






Wow!!!

New SR-507s on eBay for ~$1150.

It is interesting to compare the generations.


When I bought these, (for something like $850), a Lexicon PCM70 was over $1000; the ESQ-1 was in that ball-park.


I had a Tascam 8 track, Manley pre-amps and amps, Vandersteen speakers - I must have spent over $30K on my home studio - and this was just a hobby.


Nowadays these things are available for a fraction of that price - but still - how much does a Neumann mic cost?


Some things are just to great for words.





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#39
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 18:36:21 (permalink)
bitflipper


http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/beats-pro-high-performance/4852-7877_7-34210289.html

The first 5 reviews listed:

"Extremely overpriced, overglorified and overhyped"
"Truly disappointed"
"Way overpriced"
"meh, you really can do better"
"above average considering its cost"

No guarantee that these reviewers meet Jonbouy's standards, either, of course. They could all be making stuff up.
 
Oooh a sweaty, Mr Bitflippant!!!...
 
If you actually read what my standards were they had to do with not taking my advice on particular products, nor anyone elses but to research what you are after (flat response, normally for mixing), try several before buying, and then learn the ones you chose well once you get them home.
 
I reckon that about sums it up.  Your own typically inverted snob's approach at the outset of the thread took pride in the fact you knew all about the Beats gear without needing to consider anything else.  You already knew what they were like without a trial remember.
 
Glad to see you at least bothered to do a bit of research since.  Keep at it and you might learn a little something beyond your own opinion, perish the thought that there might be something out there other than that... 
  
I've been using 'studio staples' since I was 17 for both tracking and monitoring, long enough to know there isn't such a thing.  Sometimes studios have staples that they can bear to keep replacing when people keep sitting on them...
 
All I know is that pretty much every engineer I've ever worked with (and I'm talking about the times when labels would actually pay people to make recordings) has sworn by his own particular and sometimes peculiar seeming choice.  Now everyone's an expert, and two or three choices fit every head...lol.
 
I'm convinced yours would be far too wide to fit my 'ickle pin-head for starters.

 
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/12/15 19:00:40

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#40
dabogdan
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 18:39:48 (permalink)
I use them here and there. There are some really good headphones out there these days. Electronic Musician had an article about this. I think it was last month.
#41
bluzdog
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 19:06:54 (permalink)
The ratio of mud slinging to useful information is still pretty good here. Is there something in the rules about minimum mud slinging that I missed? There seems to be a good deal of it in almost every thread here.

Rocky

#42
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 19:13:19 (permalink)
bluzdog


The ratio of mud slinging to useful information is still pretty good here. Is there something in the rules about minimum mud slinging that I missed? There seems to be a good deal of it in almost every thread here.

Rocky


Full of useful information this one...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#43
StarTekh
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 19:32:22 (permalink)
#44
dabogdan
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 20:06:55 (permalink)
??? I don't follow on this mud slinging thing. Every engineer has their own style of doing things. Some like headphones, some don't. There is no right or wrong, but there is an end result. How you get there is your art. Do what you feel comfortable with. However, it is nice to find out what everyone else is doing. It gives you the opportunity to try different stuff or hear some else's horror stories. Isn't that the theme of this forum? In my case I have the usual Yamaha reference monitors, Some JBL mains and some B&O mains and some event 20/20s. all powered by crown amps. I usually switch between them (the speakers) for different perspectives. This is what I like. I would imagine one would have to do the same thing for headphones too. I have a pile of Sony MDR-V600s. These were pretty cheap, and I don't remember what I paid for them. Maybe $150. I use these mostly for the customers while they are laying down their tracks. The problem with these is they leak in quiet situations, like during vocal recording, where the band is in the headphones and the singer is in a booth. My Neumans and Octava's pick up the speakers in them so I have to be careful. Sm57s/58s or Sennheisers, no problem. I would not use these for mixdown unless I was just looking for levels. They add some color. Dave
#45
dabogdan
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 20:11:45 (permalink)
I'll take a look at the 7509s too.
#46
robert_e_bone
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 21:20:45 (permalink)
Here is a link to a PC Mag review of these:

http://www.pcmag.com/arti.e2/0,2817,2408799,00.asp

Bob Bone


Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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#47
sharke
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 21:31:53 (permalink)
I have a pair of ATH-M50's. When ordering you have to be aware that they come in straight and coiled cabled versions, so you have to think about which version is going to suit your recording/mixing setup. I chose the coiled ones because I never need to put any distance between me and my DAW. 

They are excellent cans for mixing. The bass response is excellent and they expose lower frequency mud very quickly. That said, for tracking and general purpose listening, I prefer the sound of my Grado SR80i's. They have such a clear, open sound. Music is a pleasure to listen to on them. However, if I try to mix with them I always end up exaggerating the lows. Which is why I switch to the ATH-M50's for that. I don't think you can get better mixing cans for the money. 

I'm one of those people who does all of their mixing on cans, with some occasional checking on a pair of crappy Bose computer speakers. My building is not well insulated sound wise and I'd be evicted pretty damn quickly if I set up a pair of monitors and started auditioning synth presets on them. Besides, I am not able to acoustically treat my space and so if I spend a bunch of money on some expensive monitors they'd just be wasted. 

I also use a VRM Box for mixing - I don't think the speaker simulations are particularly realistic (you're not going to forget you have cans on) but they are very useful for running your mix through a bunch of different perspectives to check for problems. I think people buy the VRM Box thinking it's going to be something it's not, and then they're disappointed. It's not meant as a substitute for real monitors, it's just there to give you some alternative frequency curves in order to get your mix sounding acceptable on as many speakers as possible. I just wish they had a car simulation. 

James
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#48
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 22:18:12 (permalink)
robert_e_bone


Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.

Bob Bone


See what I mean...

Hey - I made my comment based on personal experience.  I bought them for my son, and he had to get them repaired twice in the first 6 months.  They ARE cheaply made.  Save your condescending attitude for someone else - I stand by my comment.


Bob Bone
 
You bought your son the whole range?
 
There's quite a few in a wide selection.  Most people here are at least being specific about particular models.
 
I wouldn't dismiss a whole range of any brand being cheaply made and biased in the lows based on experience of one model.
 
btw you have no inkling of my 'attitude' on anything you are merely drawing your own inferences based on the words presented.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/12/15 22:25:19

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#49
robert_e_bone
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 23:33:28 (permalink)
Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.

Bob Bone


See what I mean...

Hey - I made my comment based on personal experience.  I bought them for my son, and he had to get them repaired twice in the first 6 months.  They ARE cheaply made.  Save your condescending attitude for someone else - I stand by my comment.


Bob Bone
 
You bought your son the whole range?
 
There's quite a few in a wide selection.  Most people here are at least being specific about particular models.
 
I wouldn't dismiss a whole range of any brand being cheaply made and biased in the lows based on experience of one model.
 
btw you have no inkling of my 'attitude' on anything you are merely drawing your own inferences based on the words presented.

This is a stupid dialog - I was just trying to provide my opinion - that's all - and that's all it should have been taken for.  All you have done is snipe at folks in here.  Obviously it was for the one model I bought.  Duh.  And yes, my opinion is that you have been condescending in this thread.  So, I gave my 2 cents - if that helps someone, cool - if not, cool too - everyone can make up their own mind.


So, f**k o*f, a**h**e.


Bob Bone



Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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#50
Teds_Studio
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 23:45:18 (permalink)
bapu


Jim, 

I have K240s (x2) and one K270 headphones. The K270s no longer output the right side. Gonna get that set repaired one day soon.

I too, have two pair of K240s.  One pair I've had since the early 80s.  The other pair are fairly new...got them free when I bought my JBL studio monitors.


I also have two pair of the K270s.  Good sounding cans in IMO...especially with the duel drivers in each side.  I like tracking with them because they are a closed design and not much of the sound leak out unless you really have them cranking.


I bought a case (12 pair) of the ATH-M20s just for those people who come in to the studio and have no clue how to treat equipment.  We all know the kind....that twists the cord continuously...step on the cord and yank them off their head...etc. :) .  I got them on Ebay for $19 a pair...so I can afford to have them abused.  Only certain clients get the privilege of using my "good" phones.
post edited by Teds_Studio - 2012/12/15 23:57:19

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#51
dabogdan
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/15 23:50:47 (permalink)
ATH-M50 The white ones look pretty cool. Have you looked at the Sure SRH-840? There was a review I read that mentions them.
#52
mike_321
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 04:16:28 (permalink)
What's your opinion on the Pioneer HDJ-2000s? I've had these for a couple years now and I'm just not happy with them. I've recently read some (rather bad) reviews that agree with what I never liked about them, but didn't trust my judgement (as I'm a noob). They say they have a very steep bass roll-off (huge fail), have a muddy high-end and, last but definitely not least, the left channel is louder than the right... All of this most definitely shows up in my mixes, much to my frustration. One thing, however, that nobody seems to agree with me with, is that they are horribly uncomfortable. According to most people they are some of the most comfortable available. However, after a couple of hours the back-middle parts of my ear cartillage starts hurting really badly, and if I carry on it remains that way for a while after having taken them off. It's gotten better now that I think my ears have molded them to suit me better, but still... I've probably got weird ears in comparison to the majority, I'm guessing. I'm relieved to have finally read in somebody else's words what I've been frustrated with for the past couple years, although I'm also somewhat disappointed at feeling I've thrown my money away. I would've preferred it was just my poor judgement and not feel like I wasted money, but, then again, maybe it's better to know my listenening skills aren't as bad as I used to think... This is the review btw: http://forum.djtechtools..m/showthread.php?t=49925
#53
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 04:38:52 (permalink)
robert_e_bone


Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


Jonbouy


robert_e_bone


They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.

Bob Bone


See what I mean...

Hey - I made my comment based on personal experience.  I bought them for my son, and he had to get them repaired twice in the first 6 months.  They ARE cheaply made.  Save your condescending attitude for someone else - I stand by my comment.


Bob Bone
 
You bought your son the whole range?

There's quite a few in a wide selection.  Most people here are at least being specific about particular models.

I wouldn't dismiss a whole range of any brand being cheaply made and biased in the lows based on experience of one model.

btw you have no inkling of my 'attitude' on anything you are merely drawing your own inferences based on the words presented.

This is a stupid dialog - I was just trying to provide my opinion - that's all - and that's all it should have been taken for.  All you have done is snipe at folks in here.  Obviously it was for the one model I bought.  Duh.  And yes, my opinion is that you have been condescending in this thread.  So, I gave my 2 cents - if that helps someone, cool - if not, cool too - everyone can make up their own mind.


So, f**k o*f, a**h**e.


Bob Bone

Good stuff, you'll see if you read that I've been sniping at nobody in particular but advocating those exact words that you've just used.
 
Thanks for what I'm assuming is a Scandinavian Christmas wish at the bottom there too.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#54
robert_e_bone
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 09:00:23 (permalink)
@jonbouy - and a happy Aboriginal new year.  You were correct and I was crabby - my apologies - I have a bad back and shouldn't have even been typing, compounded by skip-reading.

Bottom line is that headphones are really best researched and tested by each of us.  Based on my personal experiences with one model of that particular product line, I would not choose to purchase another, but that does not mean other products in that line are automatically bad.

Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#55
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 11:54:07 (permalink)
robert_e_bone


@jonbouy - and a happy Aboriginal new year.  You were correct and I was crabby - my apologies - I have a bad back and shouldn't have even been typing, compounded by skip-reading.

Bottom line is that headphones are really best researched and tested by each of us.  Based on my personal experiences with one model of that particular product line, I would not choose to purchase another, but that does not mean other products in that line are automatically bad.

Bob Bone
It's all good, I know I've got a 'club mouth' when it comes to expressing an idea I have strong feelings about and it doesn't always come across too well.
 
So have a real Olde English Merrie Christmas from me...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#56
stevee9c6
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 12:13:24 (permalink)
I have two ATM50's, two Akd240's, and about 8 pairs of AT20's.  I keep one pair of ATM50s in the vocal booth and one at the mix position.  I don't use the AKG 240's much for mixing anymore.  I mix using the ATM 50s,  NS10s, and a JBL LSR system with sub.  I personally prefer the AT over the AKG because the mixes translate better for me. YMMV...

Steve 
www.stevestallingsmusic.com
#57
beltrom
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 12:34:36 (permalink)
I prefer not to mix only on headphones. If forced I think I would actually use my Philips SBC HP890 over my AKG240, not by much but still. Don't know what Philips did there but that is a killer headphone for cheap. They're a little bit bass heavy, but as I know it I could probably compensate for that. I have a couple of mid range Sennheisers and Koss as well and they're good but not for my mixing preferences.  
#58
shawn@trustmedia.tv
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 14:34:54 (permalink)

These little guys were $14.00 at Walmart & I'M NOT JOKING: I've had a few $100-$200 pairs of headphones and these little guys are my favorite headphones. They are very durrable and take a beating going in and out of my back pack & I really love the sound of these cans, it's well balanced.


Belive it or NOT! - Shawn

Studio SONAR X3. Axiom 25 midi controller, DUNE 2, Producer Content, Good Times, Bandlab Mojo

#59
Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones 2012/12/16 16:03:41 (permalink)
shawn@trustmedia.tv


 
These little guys were $14.00 at Walmart & I'M NOT JOKING: I've had a few $100-$200 pairs of headphones and these little guys are my favorite headphones. They are very durrable and take a beating going in and out of my back pack & I really love the sound of these cans, it's well balanced.


Belive it or NOT! - Shawn
I believe it.
 
There was a line of Panasonic ones I used to use for several years at £7.99 a pop.  If they were still available I'd  have some among my collection.  They didn't last long before they fell apart but they worked a treat for me.
 
I never used to mix back then though, because it wasn't my job to, but they were my studio 'staples' nonetheless whilst tracking and monitoring the other guys in the booth.


"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#60
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