EQ
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Mixing/monitoring headphones
I know this qeustion has been asked here before. But Ive never heard anyone talk about the Beats by dre as an option. What do you guys think about them? (when mixing out loud is not an possible)....
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clintmartin
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/14 12:52:08
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Audio Technica ATH-M50's is what I have, and what I would recommend.
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Rooftree
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/14 13:10:28
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I've not used them myself, but I've seen this question addressed on a couple of different forums. The consensus was a loud and clear "don't do it". It makes sense since a big chunk of the retail price goes towards the celebrity endorsement, which means there's less money involved in making them sound good.
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EQ
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/14 13:16:20
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ok...Thats kind of what I though. I havent listened to them to judge but just seeing how they are being marketed, seems more hype then substance (and not at all saying there not good phones)
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/14 20:20:59
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clintmartin
Audio Technica ATH-M50's is what I have, and what I would recommend.
+3. Buy these. Dre's are probably freq. hyped. ATH-M50s are hyped too... well, they are loud. 
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bitflipper
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 06:40:54
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First, I am very reluctant to buy any product with an artist's name attached. Compare the prices of the AKG products that sport Quincy Jones' name to the EXACT SAME products without the name.
Second, I'm skeptical of anything that's sold at the mall. The Beats by Dre (at least they didn't spell "beats" with a "z") headphones can be had at Wal-Mart, Target and Radio Shack. IOW, they are targeted at the mainstream. I don't need to hear them to know they're hyped because they'd stand no chance in the mainstream market if they weren't.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 07:13:02
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bitflipper
Second, I'm skeptical of anything that's sold at the mall. The Beats by Dre (at least they didn't spell "beats" with a "z") headphones can be had at Wal-Mart, Target and Radio Shack. IOW, they are targeted at the mainstream. I don't need to hear them to know they're hyped because they'd stand no chance in the mainstream market if they weren't.
Which is the exact same principle that happens on here but in reverse. Hence I get skeptical of some of the blind 'me too' recommendations that may crop up. They could indeed perform better than those recommended here but nobody would know or if they did they wouldn't tell you that if they've spent too much on 'phones already. I have no idea what they are like. What I do know is any pair of cans is a compromise to facilitate mixing when you can't make a noise or some other practical workaround for a situation you are in, like you mentioned. Whatever cans you end up with or if you stick with what you have learn them well by listening to plenty of reference material that you are already familiar with hearing in your normal environment and listen carefully in particular to the differences where you might be under or over compensating for the 'character' of the cans themselves. You'll have to do that anyway whether you spend $10 or $1000 to get the best you can (heheh) out of them. Most people tend to recommend what they have because that's what they ended up buying so it would be a bit silly to say the ones they didn't buy are better, hence take ALL personal recommendations with a pinch of salt and do a bit of research on why a particular type will serve YOU better over another pair. Headphones is one area where your own research, personal experience and comparitive listening is crucial IMO. Just like I wouldn't choose a brand of underwear because Bapu wears that brand, headphones are a close fitting garment too so best I check they are the best fit and suit me personally rather than just wear his pants. If wearing Dr Dre 'phones was going to bring me the revenue of just one of his major hits I'd have a dozen pairs already. Actually he's one of a few people where I'd REALLY be interested to know what his real preference is, over the usual forum 'expertise' that manifests itself here oh so readily.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/12/15 13:34:58
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 07:14:50
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They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.
Bob Bone
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 07:32:07
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I think I'm getting a pair of ATH-M50's for xmas (but my mum/mom is buying them so hopefully she gets it right...)
They seem to be pretty much the most heavily user endorsed headphones on the market in the reasonable price range. EVERY single thread anywhere on mixing headphones will have at least one person (usually multiple) mention these babies. I only ever seem to hear good things about them so I figure you can't go wrong with a pair! Can't wait to actually hear them though!
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 07:33:45
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robert_e_bone
They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.
Bob Bone
See what I mean...
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 08:44:04
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Jonbouy
Just like I wouldn't choose a brand of underwear because Bapu wears that brand, headphones are a close fitting garment too so best I check they are the best fit and suit me personally rather than just wear his pants.
ATM I'm not wearing.... Never mind. Actually I own five distinctly different quality headphones. I chose to recommend the ATH-M50s as I do feel that the bang (see what I did there) for the buck, ~$150, they are the best all around underwear for my studio.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 09:13:53
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bapu
Jonbouy
Just like I wouldn't choose a brand of underwear because Bapu wears that brand, headphones are a close fitting garment too so best I check they are the best fit and suit me personally rather than just wear his pants.
ATM I'm not wearing.... Never mind.
Actually I own five distinctly different quality headphones. I chose to recommend the ATH-M50s as I do feel that the bang (see what I did there) for the buck, ~$150, they are the best all around underwear for my studio.
You put your underpants on your head?...
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SuperG
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Jonbouy
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 09:30:36
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Actually I wouldn't mind giving a pair of these puppies a whirl. http://uk.beatsbydre.com/headphones/beats-pro/beats-pro,en_GB,pd.html They certainly don't look 'cheaply' made, although you could argue the pretty much everything is cheaply made these days. Anybody here ACTUALLY tried these? Here's an easy experiment to try as well, take your favourite pair and just try holding the cups tighter to your ears or moving them slightly on your head. Notice any differences in the sound? Yep, most likely they are huge differences just from small adjustments. There maybe that much difference when you put your favourite 'phones on somebody elses head. There is no alternative to trying out the best fit for yourself and I don't just mean physical fit, some will actually tend to naturally compensate where a pair of 'phones is hyped anyway so one persons 'flat response' is another persons mix nightmare right there. Hype is hype whether it is generated by a consensus on a board full of audio nerds such as this or whether it is done by a mass marketing PR team.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/12/15 09:48:07
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bapu
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 13:27:50
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"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 13:29:17
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Hatz m beatz, no? 
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 13:29:59
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robert_e_bone
They are made cheaply, and the bass is artificially hyped.
Bob Bone
Seriously though this is one of the best Sonar Producer forum posts ever, obviously made by someone who has researched the subject and the 'phones mentioned very deeply and thoughfully and sold millions of hits worldwide by mixing in his particular cans... How can you argue with that?
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 13:37:02
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EQ
I know this qeustion has been asked here before. But Ive never heard anyone talk about the Beats by dre as an option. What do you guys think about them? (when mixing out loud is not an possible)....
It's clear that very few here would have a clue because the demographic of this place is more likely to be interested in a brand endorsed by someone like say 'Lynyrd Skynyrd'.
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:04:03
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Lynyrd Skynyrd use Beats by Dre?
BRB.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:12:21
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I know this qeustion has been asked here before. But Ive never heard anyone talk about the Beats by dre as an option. What do you guys think about them? (when mixing out loud is not an possible).... As with speakers, you want/need headphones to be accurate... not "flattering" to the audio. Although I wouldn't want to depend them solely, I can achieve a pretty good mix using AKG K240s (a studio staple).
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SuperG
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:38:10
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Apparently, Dre's brain-vise is made by one Monster, purveyor of fine cable products... 
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:45:24
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Jim,
I have K240s (x2) and one K270 headphones. The K270s no longer output the right side. Gonna get that set repaired one day soon.
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Anderton
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:54:38
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clintmartin
Audio Technica ATH-M50's is what I have, and what I would recommend.
I've compared and contrasted lots of headphones for EM's roundups over the years. The ATH-M50s are great value and I would recommend them. But every set of headphones has a different "talent." The ATH-M50s have goodoverall balance, but AKG outperforms them for high frequencies. Interestingly, I tested two Shure headphones and the less expensive one was better and more accurate for mixing than the more expensive one. Headphones are sometimes bass-shy, and don't give an accurate representation of what's going on in the low end. I have a pair of Beats and use those as a reality check for what's going on at 100Hz and below. When I need to mix on headphones, I set up the mix on the ATH-M50s, then check the highs with AKGs and the lows with Beats. I tend not to like Sony MDR headphones that much for mixing because the midrange pops too much for my tastes. But for DJing, they're great because you can hear what's happening over the ambient noise better. Ultrasones are good consumer phones but not realistic enough for mixing. The biggest surprise to me have been (don't laugh) Monster's Turbine Pro earbuds (c'mon, I told you not to laugh). I took them on a trip to Europe once to listen to music on the plane but ended up doing rough mixes of some videos on them in hotel rooms. I of course expected to have to tweak the mixes when I got back to my studio, but was shocked that the mixes translated perfectly. I didn't have to touch a thing. These were the Copper model with the flat response, though, not the Gold model with the hyped highs and lows. This is an older article, but you might find it interesting. I did a newer roundup on headphones for EM, but can't find it.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:57:15
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That's some good stuff right there Craig. That roundup will have sorted EQ out on the research front for sure.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 14:58:35
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bapu
Jim,
I have K240s (x2) and one K270 headphones. Well done!... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Anderton
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 15:02:28
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One of the great things about mixing on headphones is that for a given amount of dollars, headphones are a better value than speakers. Just as it's common to mix over several sets of speakers to take an average, you can do that with headphones and it's more affordable.
I used to mix on speakers and then do a reality check on headphones before signing off. These days I do the reverse, as so many people listen to music on earbuds.
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arachnaut
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 15:06:18
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I've had these Stax Lambda Pros for about 30 years. I wouldn't trade them for anything. 
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/monitoring headphones
2012/12/15 15:11:18
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Anderton
I used to mix on speakers and then do a reality check on headphones before signing off. These days I do the reverse, as so many people listen to music on earbuds.
That is actually my process more these days too, Craig. I use my ATH-M50s to start. Then I'll switch to my Sennheiser IE6 earbuds. Then if I'm fairly happy I'll move to the laptopwhere I generally listen with Sennheiser HD600's. Then when I think the mix is nearly there I go to my Ultimate Ears In Ear Reference Monitors (molded to fit my ears only). Then I will check on near fields with ARC after a break from the piece. After all is said and done, as Jonbouy has pointed out (and hearing tests have confirmed) I have a hearing deficiency in the 6-8K range and I try (not always sucessfully ) to solicit opinions on the high end of my mixes. Knowing my limitations I need to do more of that relying on others for that range.
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