Mudgel gets SONAR X1 running

I am so happy for you. It was sad to see so many of my friends turned off by X1. I can only hope that the others will be able to get it up and running as it is really a great DAW.

Let us know about problems or any question you have. Good to see you back in the fold.

Glad to hear things are starting to go well for you.

mudgel


       
everything seems to be working again now but with ProChannel there is no Pre/Post setting. It is just a light that comes on when clicked with the text Post either plain or lit depending on the enabled or disabled state. The selected state persists with a save and reload of the project. Is that what it does for everyone?
 

Yep. Pre / Post setting persists after saving and restarting here. Button lit Blue means "Post" when grey it means "Pre"


 Would be easier to have Pre And Post text icons but it is what it is although I hope that does get changed. But it does work correctly. I'll explain another way...the blue state is that way AFAICT to remain consistent with the Pro Channel module (Comp, EQ and Saturation buttons) on off visual states (blue on, grey off). Looking at it that way the Blue state makes sense = ON. But I still think Pre and Post text would work better than the Blue lit = On state. But at least it has been fixed. ;-)

I just checked on my system and the path is there in the option from the plugin manager for scan path.  I also did a migrate over when I installed X1.  I don't understand this.

Why did things go well for me and not for so many others?

i know youve been a long time calewalk user.you probably dont know it but you ruffled my feathers a little bit.and i took it personal.so im sorry if i was being rude.all in all what it comes down to is a daw that is performing for you.and im very glad your finaly having some good results and seeing some light with all the things you had been going through.
its hard to be creative when things arent working right.just glad things are finaly working out for you.good luck.

John


I just checked on my system and the path is there in the option from the plugin manager for scan path.  I also did a migrate over when I installed X1.  I don't understand this.

Why did things go well for me and not for so many others?

I don't know but I was able to confirm that during the X1 installation the path for the ProChannel was eliminated from the VST Scan paths. Why? I don't know. How? Don't know that either. Maybe just a glitch but the fact it happened twice in a row; once on the initial install and then again on reinstalling after deleting the appropriate folders and registry keys as well.
 
This time having reinstalled successfully the only thing I've done differently is to cancel allowing SONAR to copy over settings from a previous version. I can only conclude that it was this that caused the path to be eliminated.
The fact that I also had a running version at each update, speaks to the difference starting when I installed SONAR X1 the very forst time and was then carried over to X1a and then X1b carrying over whatever glitch or corrupt file or settings that caused many of my problems..
 

Glad you are up and running Mike. I am a bit confused though. I've not had any problems with Pro Channel. "Program files\Cakewalk\Shared utilities\internal" is not in my VST folder path in Options\VST Scan Folder(s) although "Program files\Cakewalk\vstplugins" is. I'm not sure what this all means :) When I installed X1 I just let it do whatever copying of settings it wanted from 8.5.3 and used default everything. Must have just been lucky, but it worked fine.

chuckebaby

John


Charlie, Mike is one of the nicest guys on this forum. If some how he came off badly I am sure it wasn't his intent.

im sure he is..thats why im trying to make good with him..which isnt always easy for me to do..im pig headed and ignorant at times and the last thing i like doing is fessing up to being a tool..so again mike..sorry

Charlie I have not observed you acting any way like that. I find you to be another great guy on this forum.

There are a lot of neat people here. 

mudgel

chuckebaby


i know youve been a long time calewalk user.you probably dont know it but you ruffled my feathers a little bit.and i took it personal.so im sorry if i was being rude.all in all what it comes down to is a daw that is performing for you.and im very glad your finaly having some good results and seeing some light with all the things you had been going through.
its hard to be creative when things arent working right.just glad things are finaly working out for you.good luck.

I thought I'd apologized to you for being a bit rough at the time (so I'm saying sorry now) but I was only trying to correct what I saw was an error. Please don't take my comments personally.
One of the biggest problems with chatting in text is you don't get any body language that adds much more meaning to what we say. (I don't fiond the smilies much help) Misunderstandings happen fairly frequently. One thing's for sure I don't hold grudges. hope its the same for you Charlie.
 
BTW generally If I'm talking directly to a specific person I'll either address them by name or quote their post. Otherwise my comments are usually just to thread topic in general.

nope that was all me man..im just glad your a good guy mike and dont hold grudges.i personally do..lol..but this had nothing to do with a grudge..i was ignorant and i just hoped sooner than later i would have a chance to tell you i was sorry i apreciate your understanding.and again im very happy things are looking up.id hate to see a long time user like you leave cakewalk.and ive read alot of your posts..you help a lot of people.and rather than take what i took personal i should have realized this guy is very smart an i can learn a lot from him.thank you mike

Somerset


Glad you are up and running Mike. I am a bit confused though. I've not had any problems with Pro Channel. "Program files\Cakewalk\Shared utilities\internal" is not in my VST folder path in Options\VST Scan Folder(s) although "Program files\Cakewalk\vstplugins" is. I'm not sure what this all means :) When I installed X1 I just let it do whatever copying of settings it wanted from 8.5.3 and used default everything. Must have just been lucky, but it worked fine.

In Plugin Manager - VST Configuration - Options; the path Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal should be there. That folder contains 4 .dlls for the 2 compressor modules, the EQ module and the Saturation module. I thought for such a long time that ProChannel was working in a way because the GUI for it isn't in the dlls. It's hard coded somewhere on SONAR and there it was opeening an closong on my screen whenever I opened it up or closed it down.
 
But I eventually worked out I wasn't really controlling any parameters by making adjustments and I couldn't get the eq plot or compressor meters to work or get them to remain on when IO reloaded a project. No wonder, as I wasn't really running the ProChannel. Only opening the GUI and playing with graphic elements not connected to any underlying code.
It didn't make sense until I finally put it all together. I even imagined sometimes that I could hear a subtle effect but of course no audio was being processed.
 
If you go to Preferences - File - VST Settings - You'll only see the paths to your default VST Plugins folder/s and not to the Shared Utilities\Internal folder path.
 
There are also 3 registry entries; one is the default path for the "Internal" folder
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Sonar Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath
 
and the other is in the VST Inventory providing the path to each of the 4 ProChannel .dlls
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-BusCM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-CakeSM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-GlossEQM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-NukeCM.dll
 
and yet another for the path to the folder's location.
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\VSTInternalPath
 
 
 

Update on ProChannel.

While the Pre/Post setting persists between saving, closing and reopening a project I don't seem to have any "Pre" function despite the setting. ie it is always Post fader no matter the setting.

More testing on another day. Generally the program seems responsive and smooth in playback.

I will probably install on my new Win 7 partition on my Studio DAW now that I have an installation recipe that gets me a working program..

I still don't understand how or what was broken on your setup. Some clarifications on the way the prochannel is installed:
 
1. Prochannel modules are components installed in the Cakewalk programs, shared utilities folder under "C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal" or "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal" depending on whether you have either or both x64 or x86 versions installed. They are completely independent modules for X64 and X86.
 
2. The prochannel dll's are placed here to separate them from user VST's. Although we do require VSTScan to scan them (primarily for code consistency and simplicity) they are custom modules with custom interfaces for SONAR are not VST's in the normal sense.
 
3. The path to the prochannel dll's is stored in the registry here:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath
or:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\VSTInternalPath
These paths are automatically populated when SONAR runs for the first time.
 
(The internal path is ALSO stored under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Sonar Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath. This location is populated by the installer itself and used when the app runs for the first time)
 
4. The internal path to the prochannel dll's cannot be user modified and is independent of any user scan paths. Even if you migrate old settings from 8.5 it should NOT have affected this. Even though plugin manager lists the internal path under the VST scan path settings (an unwanted side effect actually and unnecessary so we may change that) that value cannot be deleted.
 
Based on your description of symptoms the only thing I can think of is that somehow the prochannel was NOT ever scanned on your system. That is the only scenario that would explain all modules not responding even when enabled (e.g no eq plot despite setting up some bands). You will be able to verify this by looking in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory to see if there are entries for the prochannel modules. (PCS-BusCM.dll, PCS-CakeSM.dll, ...). If the entries are missing it means they were never scanned.
 
I suggest sending a registry dump of:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST
and
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64
 
That will allow us to look at what you have in the registry for VST settings and diagnose this better.
 
To answer your question about the pre/post setting,it is normal to see the POST button. Post button lit (BLUE) means that post is active. When unlit (gray) it is PRE.

That shouldn't be required at all. We routinely test installing X1 on top of an 8.5 install and almost all prior users choose to install it that way.

mudgel

Somerset


Glad you are up and running Mike. I am a bit confused though. I've not had any problems with Pro Channel. "Program files\Cakewalk\Shared utilities\internal" is not in my VST folder path in Options\VST Scan Folder(s) although "Program files\Cakewalk\vstplugins" is. I'm not sure what this all means :) When I installed X1 I just let it do whatever copying of settings it wanted from 8.5.3 and used default everything. Must have just been lucky, but it worked fine.

In Plugin Manager - VST Configuration - Options; the path Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal should be there. That folder contains 4 .dlls for the 2 compressor modules, the EQ module and the Saturation module. I thought for such a long time that ProChannel was working in a way because the GUI for it isn't in the dlls. It's hard coded somewhere on SONAR and there it was opeening an closong on my screen whenever I opened it up or closed it down.
 
But I eventually worked out I wasn't really controlling any parameters by making adjustments and I couldn't get the eq plot or compressor meters to work or get them to remain on when IO reloaded a project. No wonder, as I wasn't really running the ProChannel. Only opening the GUI and playing with graphic elements not connected to any underlying code.
It didn't make sense until I finally put it all together. I even imagined sometimes that I could hear a subtle effect but of course no audio was being processed.
 
If you go to Preferences - File - VST Settings - You'll only see the paths to your default VST Plugins folder/s and not to the Shared Utilities\Internal folder path.
 
There are also 3 registry entries; one is the default path for the "Internal" folder
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Sonar Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath
 
and the other is in the VST Inventory providing the path to each of the 4 ProChannel .dlls
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-BusCM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-CakeSM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-GlossEQM.dll
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory\c:/program files/cakewalk/shared utilities/internal/PCS-NukeCM.dll
 
and yet another for the path to the folder's location.
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\VSTInternalPath
 
 
 

OK - thanks Mike -got it. Yes in Plugin Manager - VST Configuration - Options; the path Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal is there on my set up. Sorry for the confusion. Good luck with X1.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

I still don't understand how or what was broken on your setup. Some clarifications on the way the prochannel is installed:
 
1. Prochannel modules are components installed in the Cakewalk programs, shared utilities folder under "C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal" or "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\Internal" depending on whether you have either or both x64 or x86 versions installed. They are completely independent modules for X64 and X86.
 
2. The prochannel dll's are placed here to separate them from user VST's. Although we do require VSTScan to scan them (primarily for code consistency and simplicity) they are custom modules with custom interfaces for SONAR are not VST's in the normal sense.
 
3. The path to the prochannel dll's is stored in the registry here:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath
or:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\VSTInternalPath
These paths are automatically populated when SONAR runs for the first time.
 
(The internal path is ALSO stored under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Sonar Producer\Cakewalk VST\VSTInternalPath. This location is populated by the installer itself and used when the app runs for the first time)
 
4. The internal path to the prochannel dll's cannot be user modified and is independent of any user scan paths. Even if you migrate old settings from 8.5 it should NOT have affected this. Even though plugin manager lists the internal path under the VST scan path settings (an unwanted side effect actually and unnecessary so we may change that) that value cannot be deleted.
 
Based on your description of symptoms the only thing I can think of is that somehow the prochannel was NOT ever scanned on your system. That is the only scenario that would explain all modules not responding even when enabled (e.g no eq plot despite setting up some bands). You will be able to verify this by looking in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory to see if there are entries for the prochannel modules. (PCS-BusCM.dll, PCS-CakeSM.dll, ...). If the entries are missing it means they were never scanned.
 
I suggest sending a registry dump of:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST
and
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST X64
 
That will allow us to look at what you have in the registry for VST settings and diagnose this better.
 
To answer your question about the pre/post setting,it is normal to see the POST button. Post button lit (BLUE) means that post is active. When unlit (gray) it is PRE.

As you can see from previous posts in this thread I have been able to deduce all the things you said. You missed the part where I said that it was unfortunate that I had embarked on a complete reinstalltion when I started to piece together a little about how the ProChannel is put together. This was while I was looking through the registry for the keys to delete for a full uninstallation.
 
I never had the path to the "Internal" folder in the VST Scanner path listed in Plugin Manager > VST configuration > Options. Never having seen it I didn't know it was missing. Whle the path to the "Internal" folder was in one of the registry keys the 4 individual  /dlls weren't in the VST inventory. I only have the 64 bit version of X1 installed.
 
To go back to the beginning:
first installation of X1 was from DVD's as I didn't get a download. By the time this occurred the X1a update was already available so my first try of X1 already included the "A" update. No matter what I did I couldn't get the Audio engine or transport to work; nothing i tried seemed to fix this. It wasn't long and the hotix for the ASIO problem was released and as I had been using ASIO drivers with my FF800 I tried it and for some unexplained reason X1A+Hotfix seemed to run BUT only for a few minutes at a time with all sorts of glitches and weird GUI behaviour, dropouts and ultimate fade to white screen leaving SONAR "Not responding" requiring an eventual manual "End Process" to start over again.
 
I spent many hours over a period of weeks trying to make this work by reinstalling and examining various suggestions I received all to no avail. Cranky but all the while hopeful I awaitted further developments.
 
then I left it with only an occassional look at thnigs still with no resolution. then X1b came out and after installing it I finally could get going with X1 and start to come to grips with the program. Many of the reported bugs were evident
in my setup but one of the biggest problem seemed to be between the ProChannel GUI and the code itself. It was a chance observation from another forum member at the time when I decided to do a fresh installation that led me to surmmize that my problems had something to do with a glitch during the initial installation. Whether it was the real cause of my problems or not I was able to duplicate the same end result by allowing the original X1 install to copy over settings and go through the personalization process again this last time.
 
After again doing a full uninstall, cleaning out the registry,and noting that the ProChannel path was present but no record in the VST inventory that the individual modules had been scanned. I again repeated the processed and cancelled the personalization and copy over of old settings and sure enough I had an active SONAR X1B+Quickfix (No persistance of Prochannel Pre/Post setting after save and reload )
 
at this time Prochannel doesn't react to the Pre/post setting even though the Gui shows changes in state. That change also persists after save and reload of project but ProChannel's active state is always actually Post Fader.
 
This is on a Laptop system that I have been using successfully with SONAR 8.5.3 and very heavy projects along with other CPU/GPU and memory intensive applications like Adobe's full CS5 Master suite, Sound Forge without so much as a glitch.
 
Even though I seem to have something still hinkey going on with ProChannel I'm now confident I will get it working.