Music question: Can you help me with this chord chart?

I've been spending more time playing and singing than recording and I use an old stack of song charts, fake sheets etc.

I'm working on transposing an old song Gram Parson sang to a key that works well for me. While thinking about this I noticed that one of the chords I was playing may not be in key... and so choosing the correct transposition has caused me to hesitate.


I am using this lyrics and chords sheets from a song lyrics site so instead of linking to that pop up fester coded page I'll just copy paste the lyrics:

Gram Parsons   Hearts On Fire  by Walter Egan & Tom Guidera
Enmmylou Harris

G      G7 C
Hearts on fire
   D                         G
My love for you brought only misery
       G7 C
Hearts on fire
    D                                      G
Put out the flames and set this cold heart free
          D7
One short year our love burned
         G
Until at last I guess you learned
    D7                             A7
The art of being untrue and then goodbye
             D7                   G
What could I do except to cry and moan
C          G      D7
Lord, what have I done?
        C                             D7
Once we were as sweet and warm as the golden morning sun
          C
Hearts on fire
   D                         G        F C G
My love for you brought only misery
G7        C
Hearts on fire
    D7                                      G
Put out the flames and set this cold heart free

SOLO
        D7
Friends say it's just a game
         G
And that no one is to blame
   D7
Go out forget her lies
               A7                   D7
But she'll be there and sparks will fly
                      G
My love has turned to hatred
 C        G      D7
Sleep escapes me still
            C
God, please take this heart of mine
             D
Cause if you don't the devil will
          C
Hearts on fire
   D                         G        F C G
My love for you brought only misery
G7        C
Hearts on fire
    D                                      G
Put out the flames and set this cold heart free
         C      D      G     F   C   G
Hearts on fire

From The Grievous Angel LP

My question is about the A7. It sounds right but when I think about theory I am inclined to think it is supposed to be a Am7 (no joke).

What's going on there? Is it a short modulation? A feel thing? Maybe I am thinking about the incorrect song key (I'm calling it G major)?

 


I want to transpose up a bit because I'm in between registers in G major... I can't hit the low notes in the low octave and I can't hit the highs if I sing an octave up. I want to make sure I can hit all the lows while singing in my low range. If I sing in my low range I'll be able to hit the top notes without any problems.


I'm also playing guitar... so I also have to think about fingering capability when I transpose as well.

I took a run in C and it seems to work.





I'm hoping someone may have some thoughts or tips to share?




best regards,
mike
 

normally for a major key the 2nd would indeed be a minor chord:

I  ii  iii  IV  V  vi  vii(dim)

so, I would tend to agree that under a normal major key, the A7 should be Am7 instead. 

however, not all songs follow the exact scale every time.  there are numerous songs which use exceptions just to tweak the listener's ear.  for this song, however, I would be surprised if that were the case.  I'd say Am7 is really what you want.  but what does it sound like?


a question for you, however, I've never seen an embedded scrollbar - how did you paste that frame into the forum?

I don't know how that happened either Beagle.

It came over with the copy/paste.

I saw a spelling typo but I didn't want to edit the post because sometimes weird formatting like that will sneak thru the first time... but then gets messed up when I edit.



I'll try listening to both the minor and major... it's at a tough passage for the vocal melody (rhythmically... not harmonically) and I'm still trying to work through that section so I wasn't at ease to just try either at whim.

I'll take some time and focus on that.


Old55, I haven't found another copy yet. I pretty much play by ear off charts like this. I guess I can go find the "official" sheet music... but for a guy like me I'd have to decipher it first.

Most of the free "tabs" you find on the web are some one else's by ear interpretation... so you never know what you'll find.



Thanks to both of you.



best regards,
mike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGKXgKmYg08

yeah... that is the chord they play.   That is the thing I love about EH ... she will often use interesting chords that are not part of what we normally expect to hear in there.

I'd play it as A7.... it's not a mistake and its not a typo.


As you listen to it, notice that the unusual A7 wants to take it in a new direction...BUT, the D7 allows it to resolve back to G... the song's key.

Adding the 2 chord gives it interest.

I love most of the songs EH does.... a true pioneer in music with the voice of an angel.

mike_mccue


I don't know how that happened either Beagle.

It came over with the copy/paste.

I saw a spelling typo but I didn't want to edit the post because sometimes weird formatting like that will sneak thru the first time... but then gets messed up when I edit.



I'll try listening to both the minor and major... it's at a tough passage for the vocal melody (rhythmically... not harmonically) and I'm still trying to work through that section so I wasn't at ease to just try either at whim.

I'll take some time and focus on that.


Old55, I haven't found another copy yet. I pretty much play by ear off charts like this. I guess I can go find the "official" sheet music... but for a guy like me I'd have to decipher it first.

Most of the free "tabs" you find on the web are some one else's by ear interpretation... so you never know what you'll find.



Thanks to both of you.



best regards,
mike

You're welcome, Mike.  Can you tell what chord it is by listening to the original?  I understand that the chord chart you have might already be transposed, but the track might also give you a clue. 

Guitarhacker


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGKXgKmYg08

yeah... that is the chord they play.   That is the thing I love about EH ... she will often use interesting chords that are not part of what we normally expect to hear in there.

I'd play it as A7.... it's not a mistake and its not a typo.


As you listen to it, notice that the unusual A7 wants to take it in a new direction...BUT, the D7 allows it to resolve back to G... the song's key.

Adding the 2 chord gives it interest.

I love most of the songs EH does.... a true pioneer in music with the voice of an angel.

edited:

mike_mccue


I don't know how that happened either Beagle.

It came over with the copy/paste.

I saw a spelling typo but I didn't want to edit the post because sometimes weird formatting like that will sneak thru the first time... but then gets messed up when I edit.



I'll try listening to both the minor and major... it's at a tough passage for the vocal melody (rhythmically... not harmonically) and I'm still trying to work through that section so I wasn't at ease to just try either at whim.

I'll take some time and focus on that.


Old55, I haven't found another copy yet. I pretty much play by ear off charts like this. I guess I can go find the "official" sheet music... but for a guy like me I'd have to decipher it first.

Most of the free "tabs" you find on the web are some one else's by ear interpretation... so you never know what you'll find.



Thanks to both of you.



best regards,
mike

was that a notepad document that you copied and pasted?  and did you just paste directly into the forum quick reply?
 
sorry for the side bar.
 
as these guys say - go with the A7 - not all songs follow the conventional key and apparently that was what was intended here.

mike_mccue

timidi

My question is about the A7. It sounds right but when I think about theory I am inclined to think it is supposed to be a Am7 (no joke).

Not everything stays in key. Am7 would be the "correct" chord. But, "correct" only counts when you want to be correct.
If you used the Am7, the song would probably be boring and lifeless. Using the A7 adds tension.


Actually, what are you asking here? You know all about this stuff.

I really just know enough theory to be dangerous... I don't have a true working knowledge of it.

I appreciate getting to discuss it and learn... and get to use the lingo... etc.

:-)

all the best,
mike

Didn't lingos take Karyn's baby?

I just woke up and I had to fit all Am bazz notes into a song last night that was not in the key of Am.

Note that the G7 and F chords are "wrong" for the key of Gmaj too.


1. So then maybe you could say the song is modulating all the time. Perhaps:
G = key of Gmaj 
G7 -> C = modulating to Cmaj
But C -> D -> G = Gmaj

D7 -> A7 = modulating Gmaj to Dmaj
A7 -> D7 = modulating back to Gmaj

G -> F -> C -> G -> G7 -> C = Cmaj


2. Or else consider that in major key blues, it's common to play dominant 7th chords in place of major 7th (or major) chords, particularly right before a chord change (exactly like this song does). In that case the G7 (and F) chords make more sense, and the D7 -> A7 -> D7 is just a short key modulation.


3. Or you might just say the A7 (A C# E G) is a substitution for an Em7 (vi) chord (E B G D) in the key of Gmaj.

[EDIT: I would vote for #2]

Save some for me in case I stay over on the next Movie Night.

Y'all are over analyzing this.... it's country music and therefore,  if it sounds good, it works.

A couple music theory comments:

In terms of classical music theory, in the key of G an A7 would be regarded as a V of V chord, i.e. the dominant chord in the key of the dominant chord (with D being the dominant chord in the key of G, and A being the dominant chord in the key of D).  The V / V chord has a fairly long history of use.

In terms of classical resolution, the V / V would (no surprise) most often resolve to V as the next chord.  Resolving to iii would also be very possible as iii = vi in the dominant key (here Bm is iii in the key of G, vi in the key of D).

In the key of D, a progression of V to vi would be classically termed a deceptive cadence (often used to great effect in classical music), as one first expects V to resolve to I.

Of course, this is all just formal classical theory, and traditional theory does not always equate to actual popular practice (unless one is seeking to emulate a traditional classical composer circa roughly 1700-1900).

Side note: perhaps the most common difference in pop chord progressions and classical chord progressions is V - IV.  That progression is very common in pop, but is almost never found in classical music.

Oh dear, this thread is bringing too much back to mind <smile>...

Regarding the F chord in the key of G major, the F would be regarded as a flatted seventh.

In older tuning systems, and as used especially in folk music, as well as the frets of a traditionally fretted mountain dulcimer (and in many, many Irish fiddle tunes), the flatted 7th is in the scale of the traditional mixolydian mode.

I will confess that mixolydian mode is one of my favorite key structures. 

noldar12


A couple music theory comments:

In terms of classical music theory, in the key of G an A7 would be regarded as a V of V chord, i.e. the dominant chord in the key of the dominant chord (with D being the dominant chord in the key of G, and A being the dominant chord in the key of D).  The V / V chord has a fairly long history of use.

In terms of classical resolution, the V / V would (no surprise) most often resolve to V as the next chord.  Resolving to iii would also be very possible as iii = vi in the dominant key (here Bm is iii in the key of G, vi in the key of D).

   

A question for you, as classical theory is not my strong point:

Would the use of V/V be considered a key modulation or not? Or is it something like, "it really is, but we don't think of it that way, since it modulates right back"?