Paul P
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 01:12:03
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I find most (maybe except for 'space') standard keyboard shortcuts more than awkward. Using the mouse is so necessary that I end up keeping my right hand on it most of the time. This leaves only my left hand free. Something like Shift-F12 is impossible. Even "P" isn't easy and it's often needed. So I've been assigning my own shortcuts to keys that fall naturally under my left hand. Things like [X = whatever is to the left of '1' on your keyboard] for rewind to beginning, or TAB for search backward, or shift [X] to open the PRV. My hands don't move and I don't have to look. The assignable Control Bar buttons are great as well since my right hand is already on the mouse. Foot switches would be great for Shift-like modifiers but that 450$ pricetag is crazy. There are too many things to enter and not enough limbs.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/01/18 01:35:34
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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ricoskyl
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 01:19:14
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The pok key-combo pedal is selling for under $150 now. Behringer has a 10 switch rig with two cc pedals for about the same price. Just decide which you want to control: PC keys or MIDI data...or better yet, get one of each for leas than $300...I know, I'm not made of money either.
If you want to make enemies, try to change something. -Woodrow T. WilsonTurbulence is a life force. It is opportunity. Let’s love turbulence and use it for change. -Ramsay Clark ----------------------Sonar Platinum Win 10 x64 on HP Pavilion i7 5500 12Gb RAM, Tascam US-16x08, NVidia 840 8Gb vram, Multi-Screen, Multi-Touch
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compositor
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 10:57:56
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"the "Give All Keystrokes" button is something you need to learn and use if it is causing that much distress (which it would if you are not aware of it)"
"Give all keystrokes to plug-in" does not work for MMultiAnalyzer and Amplitube 4 which are the only plug-ins I need it for. Often I need to adjust patches and re-name them for these two plug-ins inside Sonar Platinum. (I am on Lexington) Is this feature working for anyone else? I submitted the bug to product support-- the ticket is CWBRN-33588. Under status information it says, "submitted to development" back in June 2015. After every Sonar update, I re-check this feature and it still is not fixed.
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 11:10:51
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Dumb question and OT but I gotta know. would it be possible, or be any advantage, to using one of those new Lenovo pc/tablets or any laptop for a touch screen, and still be using desktop for Sonar program? I don't know if the HDMI is 2 way or not, meaning would accept input from video card.....There must be a way........ or not
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John
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 12:33:34
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charlyg
Dumb question and OT but I gotta know. would it be possible, or be any advantage, to using one of those new Lenovo pc/tablets or any laptop for a touch screen, and still be using desktop for Sonar program? I don't know if the HDMI is 2 way or not, meaning would accept input from video card.....There must be a way........ or not
HDMI is as far as I know is one way. I don't think there is a way to have another computer control Sonar without a network involved.
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 14:12:06
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I could do that.....I think.
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RD9
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 16:53:23
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This is a very useful conversation, thanks to the OP for getting things started. I am one of those who uses the mouse almost exclusively and use the keyboard only when necessary. Having used touch screens on tablets and netbooks for some time now it does seem to me it would be useful for replacing buttons and sliders but wouldn't be suitable for the fine work (e.g. automation, midi editing) which is often a large part of my workflow. After reading the posts above regarding CW's future focus (touch screen and no MIDI editing mentioned) I am now considering augmenting my system capabilities with either Cubase or Studio One to improve my MIDI editing capabilities since it would be unfair to expect that CW change their plans to suit me. Cheers, Richard
post edited by RD9 - 2016/01/18 17:51:12
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tlw
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 17:01:16
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charlyg
Dumb question and OT but I gotta know. would it be possible, or be any advantage, to using one of those new Lenovo pc/tablets or any laptop for a touch screen, and still be using desktop for Sonar program? I don't know if the HDMI is 2 way or not, meaning would accept input from video card.....There must be a way........ or not
PC touchscreens use a USB link as well as HDMI. The USB handles the touch side of things. You can already control Sonar to an extent from a tablet or a separate PC with a touch-screen, obviously all devices have to be on the same network and able to access each other. V-Control gives control over a lot of Sonar using the Sonar control surface interface. It's available for iOS and I think Android. There are other, similar apps. Microsoft's free Remote Desktop application allows control over any Windows computer running the "pro" (not home) version of Windows. It mirrors the screen onto whatever device Remote Desktop is tunning on. There's a few downsides, including it blanks the screen of the "host" PC while running because it redirects the video from the graphics card to the remote desktop server. On the plus side it works pretty well and is available for Windows amd iOS at least. There are also USB mini-touchscreens which operate like a second monitor, though I've no experience of using them.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Paul P
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 17:01:31
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RD9
I am now considering augmenting my system capabilities with either Cubase or Studio One to improve my MIDI editing capabilities since it would be unfair to demand that CW change their plans to suit me.
Not just you ! although it might be better to say pretty please. I don't need touch, but midi editing can get as much attention as possible. I certainly can't afford to add another daw.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 17:11:51
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My pc/tablet has usb when the keyboard is attached......and I would just as soon see both monitors..... no equivalent Windows app to V-control?
post edited by charlyg - 2016/01/18 17:25:37
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RD9
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 17:37:39
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Paul P
RD9
I am now considering augmenting my system capabilities with either Cubase or Studio One to improve my MIDI editing capabilities since it would be unfair to demand that CW change their plans to suit me.
Not just you ! although it might be better to say pretty please. I don't need touch, but midi editing can get as much attention as possible. I certainly can't afford to add another daw.
Thanks for your support. You are right about the cost. Cubase will require a large outlay but if I use my next year's membership money towards a Studio One crossgrade it becomes more reasonable. Cheers.
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jpetersen
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 17:48:20
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After all these years of working with the X-series and now Platinum, I still prefer Sonar 8.5 for its economic use of screen space and way of working in real-life situations.
I sometimes wonder how much further Sonar would be today if the resources put into getting X1 and X2 to work had been put toward moving Sonar 8.5 forward instead.
Ah, well.
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 18:43:47
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/01/19 10:25:07
My guess is they would be out of business....
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Anderton
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 21:03:46
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/01/18 23:18:39
People need to be specific about MIDI editing, it's not enough to say "better MIDI editing." You have people like williamcopper who believe that positional context within notes is a work of Satan, and some people who aren't even aware that SONAR already has three totally different ways of editing MIDI controller data. Melodyne just announced an update that includes a lot more keyboard shortcuts. This will bring smiles to many people but based on the comments in this thread, I expect to see pitchforks and torches as well...
I think a lot of the reason why Staff View is much more serviceable than it was a year ago is due to Jerry Gerber who, rather than just blathering on about how Sibelius is so awesome, posted a list of 5 specific things that if done, would make SV useable for the majority of users. Several of the fixes are from that list, and I don't think it's coincidence.
After being on the sideline for years, MIDI is making a comeback due to the popularity of virtual instruments. I know of no other company that's as willing to listen to the community as much as Cakewalk, but requests need to be very specific. For example I'm advocating for a "drum machine" mode and am coming up with a very detailed workflow. I wouldn't be surprised if that detailed workflow description makes the difference between it being implemented or not implemented.
It will be interesting to see how the feedback portal plays out. Certainly it's a more formal approach than a feature request forum.
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theheliosequence
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 21:19:58
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compositor
"the "Give All Keystrokes" button is something you need to learn and use if it is causing that much distress (which it would if you are not aware of it)"
"Give all keystrokes to plug-in" does not work for MMultiAnalyzer and Amplitube 4 which are the only plug-ins I need it for. Often I need to adjust patches and re-name them for these two plug-ins inside Sonar Platinum. (I am on Lexington) Is this feature working for anyone else? I submitted the bug to product support-- the ticket is CWBRN-33588. Under status information it says, "submitted to development" back in June 2015. After every Sonar update, I re-check this feature and it still is not fixed.
Can anyone else chime in on this? Does the "Give All Keystrokes to Plug-In" not work with Amplitube 4? I also seem to recall this being an issue with all U-He products. Would love to hear if anyone is able to type within the plugin's preset system when saving a preset. Thanks!
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Tom Riggs
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 21:34:12
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There are only a few items in SV that I would like to see and there are already Feature Requests for them in the FR forum.
I setup keyboard shortcuts to change the note duration that is inserted when clicking and that has helped my workflow lots. This is similar to how it is done in Notion.
I use the SV mainly to outline a vocal or horn part that I will sing or play in at a later point in the production.
I also created a Nashville numbering Font that I have started to use in the SV as well. This helps me out since I play instruments that are not pitched in C.
The more I use the midi editing in the X series and now in Sonar Plat the more the workflow begins to make sense.
The only problem I have had is with fiddley results when copying and pasting clips on a midi track. i.e. i select a clip in the Track View hit ctrl-c and then click the timeline to set the position to paste to and hit ctrl-v and the clip pastes to another track usually the audio track associated with the synth I'm using. I'm still trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong that is causing the strange result.
When I pin down a reproducible recipe I'll make a thread.
I think Sonar is very flexible and the more I use it the better my results are.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
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mmorgan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/18 22:55:29
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John
charlyg
Dumb question and OT but I gotta know. would it be possible, or be any advantage, to using one of those new Lenovo pc/tablets or any laptop for a touch screen, and still be using desktop for Sonar program? I don't know if the HDMI is 2 way or not, meaning would accept input from video card.....There must be a way........ or not
HDMI is as far as I know is one way. I don't think there is a way to have another computer control Sonar without a network involved.
I've used Remote Desktop with my DAW as primary and a MS Surface as the controller. Admittedly the Surface was connected via a WiFi network but that is very simple to implement.
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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mudgel
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 00:37:32
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As far as keyboard shortcuts go, my keyboard has an Alt, Shft, and Ctrl keys on each side so Shft + F12 is no issue one handed.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Vastman
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 02:55:04
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John T
The argument being made in this thread seems to be: I refuse to learn how to use this software properly, and I also expect to drink while I'm using it, and any difficulties arising from those two things are for the developers to address and not me.
I reckon that's a fairly big ask.
Perfect!
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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Snehankur
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 07:52:25
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Anderton
People need to be specific about MIDI editing, it's not enough to say "better MIDI editing." ......
....
....
After being on the sideline for years, MIDI is making a comeback due to the popularity of virtual instruments. I know of no other company that's as willing to listen to the community as much as Cakewalk, but requests need to be very specific. ....
Agreed on both the points - 'should be specific' and 'Cakewalk willing to listen' But there are many posts regarding MIDI where the users post in a specific manner what they expect or wish some feature to be implemented and keeps looking for every next updates/versions. MIDI is not getting that much importance. I may be wrong.. Regards
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dcumpian
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 08:13:54
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To me, the two biggest midi improvements that Cakewalk could make are: 1) Better handling for articulations/keyswitches. If you want a cool example, see this plugin for FL/Reaper http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/ Doing this natively in Sonar would be huge. 2) Improved note/drum maps, naming of notes. There are already feature requests for both of these that go back a good while. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Kylotan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 09:32:31
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RD9
After reading the posts above regarding CW's future focus (touch screen and no MIDI editing mentioned) I am now considering augmenting my system capabilities with either Cubase or Studio One to improve my MIDI editing capabilities since it would be unfair to expect that CW change their plans to suit me.
Is touch screen actually a focus for CW, or is that just what some people on the forum suppose? Personally I see touch screens as a dead-end. They exist on phones and tablets out of necessity, but on the desktop they're more trouble than benefit. I too expect to add an additional DAW next year. After some reluctance I paid for a year of Platinum and although I am in no way diminishing the things they did deliver, hardly any of it fixed long-standing issues I had, and none of them are mentioned in the planned updates either. So, instead of me coming here every month or so and complaining about how bad Sonar is for the things I need to do, I just need to start migrating over to a different tool.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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John
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 10:07:17
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mmorgan
John
charlyg
Dumb question and OT but I gotta know. would it be possible, or be any advantage, to using one of those new Lenovo pc/tablets or any laptop for a touch screen, and still be using desktop for Sonar program? I don't know if the HDMI is 2 way or not, meaning would accept input from video card.....There must be a way........ or not
HDMI is as far as I know is one way. I don't think there is a way to have another computer control Sonar without a network involved.
I've used Remote Desktop with my DAW as primary and a MS Surface as the controller. Admittedly the Surface was connected via a WiFi network but that is very simple to implement.
That was my point. A network is needed to do this. Heck I too have controlled Sonar with a separate computer but I needed a network to do it.
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 10:13:55
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A network is no issue, it's seeing both screens at the same time that is.... And I agree about monitors...tablets make the most sense to me for normal ad especially self recording...
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Anderton
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 10:44:10
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Kylotan
Personally I see touch screens as a dead-end. They exist on phones and tablets out of necessity, but on the desktop they're more trouble than benefit.
I used to think that way, until I got a big touch-screen monitor and laid it on my desk like a mixer. I'm left-handed, and "mouse in left hand/right hand doing touch" makes everything go so much faster. Remember, the studios of the past had touch control...you moved knobs and faders  . I for one welcome a return to that mentality compared to using a mouse and QWERTY keyboard. I do want to comment on the "long-standing issues." I agree there are issues that have been festering in the background for some time, in some cases a long time, because they've been perceived as important to a lesser number of people than things that have been fixed. However, based on the last couple updates it seems that CW is concentrating on optimizations and fixes. Because that emphasis has in general been well-received, I expect it will continue. Then as the major fixes get done, that leaves more bandwidth to fix the "minority" issues.
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Snehankur
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 11:07:51
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Anderton
Remember, the studios of the past had touch control...you moved knobs and faders .
Nicely said. But don't you think that a good control surface will give much more realistic feel than a touch screen? Of course I am not mentioning about controlling VST parameters. Regards Snehankur
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 11:49:12
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^^^ Depends on what you have and would need to spend to get a decent control surface.
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dubdisciple
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 12:29:32
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jpetersen
After all these years of working with the X-series and now Platinum, I still prefer Sonar 8.5 for its economic use of screen space and way of working in real-life situations.
I sometimes wonder how much further Sonar would be today if the resources put into getting X1 and X2 to work had been put toward moving Sonar 8.5 forward instead.
Ah, well.
Probably in the same place all other products that get stuck in the pastend up.....extinct. Sonar 8.5 was decent for it's time but was universally panned as hideous by all but the most ardent supporters. I don't know how many times I read and heard "not bad, but I can't get past the way it looks". Yes, functionality would trump aesthetics in a perfect world, but obviously it is not a perfect world. Sonar 8 was born in a world where windows made programs with no regard for style to be run on computers with even less regard for looks.
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dubdisciple
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 12:35:42
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Not sure if it is as lopsided in audio world, but it is difficult to earn a living as an editor (aside from working for yourself) without mastering keyboard shortcuts. It is physically impossible to carry out the most basic and common tasks on a mouse anywhere near the speed of keyboard. Yes, there are simple tasks better suited for mouse, but overall kb is king. I will also admit that I don't use kb shortcuts as much as I probably should in Sonar, but still recognize it would speed workflow if I did.
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Kylotan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 12:59:05
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Anderton
I used to think that way, until I got a big touch-screen monitor and laid it on my desk like a mixer. I'm left-handed, and "mouse in left hand/right hand doing touch" makes everything go so much faster.
Remember, the studios of the past had touch control...you moved knobs and faders . I for one welcome a return to that mentality compared to using a mouse and QWERTY keyboard. I think there's certainly an argument there for DAWs to move towards a touch screen focus. But I don't think most people who use DAW software have a dedicated audio machine, and even if they do, many of them are not just mixers but also arrangers and composers who need that desk space for a keyboard or similar. Also, touch screen monitors are pricey. So while I'm sure there's a market there, I don't think it's a mainstream one - especially since the reception to Windows 8 showed just how few people really want their main computer to feel like a tablet. I do want to comment on the "long-standing issues." I agree there are issues that have been festering in the background for some time, in some cases a long time, because they've been perceived as important to a lesser number of people than things that have been fixed. However, based on the last couple updates it seems that CW is concentrating on optimizations and fixes. Because that emphasis has in general been well-received, I expect it will continue. Then as the major fixes get done, that leaves more bandwidth to fix the "minority" issues. When I say 'long standing issues' I often mean something half-way between a new feature and a bug fix. Stuff like making the drum map manager significantly more usable, smoothing out various issues with track templates, cut-with-crossfade to help drum editing, an arranger track or equivalent, an end to me having to micromanage my plugin menus any time I install something new, etc. I did get one wish granted - the aux tracks - but sadly not in a state where they do more good than harm to my workflow, sadly. Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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