Vastman
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 13:36:30
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Kylotan
Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Don't know WHAT the first part of that sentence is suppose to mean. Sonar is such a huge, powerful, diverse program there is NO "normal way" to use it and can't imagine the people here saying that. Arguing for what you want is great... It is part of EVERY DAW forum. I've tried a number of DAWs over the years and even have a couple others like S1v3... and what I find is that the grass always looks greener...till ya get close enough to notice all the brown spots... and given the power of mainstream DAWs today, the learning curve is huge. Can't imagine going back and forth... coitus interruptis with the confusion it would cause in my little brain.
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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charlyg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 13:49:02
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Workflow is not set in stone. You discover it for each DAW, you don't force it. I like the fact that Sonar gives us some workflow choices, we don't all do this thing the same way.
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Adq
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 14:16:49
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☄ Helpfulby RD9 2016/01/19 18:51:22
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Kylotan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 14:55:43
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Vastman
Kylotan
Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Don't know WHAT the first part of that sentence is suppose to mean. Sonar is such a huge, powerful, diverse program there is NO "normal way" to use it and can't imagine the people here saying that. Certain tasks, in Sonar, require an awkward set of steps to perform. In other DAWs, they are often a single click, or a single click-and-drag. But when I talk about this, people often say "what's so hard about doing A, B, C, D, then E? No big deal." I'm sure exactly the same problem applies in reverse in other DAWs, with other features where Sonar has a great approach. I'm just not qualified to comment on them, having not seen them yet. Can't imagine going back and forth... coitus interruptis with the confusion it would cause in my little brain. I expect it'll be a hassle. But then I've used a bunch of music programs in my time - Sonar, Reaper, FL Studio, Modplug Tracker, Fasttracker 2 - and one more isn't going to kill me.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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mettelus
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 14:58:20
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The two biggest "MIDI related" for me are 1) lighten the overhead from mating MIDI to audio and allow manipulation of tempo in an elegant manner (e.g., allow Melodyne 4 to adjust SONAR's tempo map), and 2) enhanced MIDI routing (drums maps/graphical drag/drop note routing), especially for multitimbral plugins that can route MIDI through as well as fire on other channels (e.g., a user being able to monitor MIDI notes "in play" that SONAR is seeing and mate them accordingly - for me this is simple channel/note mating, but others would want more resolution).
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bz2838
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 16:18:59
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I'm still hoping for a chord track for Splat, similar to the one in Cubase.
Purrrfect Audio: Intel i7 7700k (Kabylake), 32Gig DDR4/2133, Windows 10x64 Pro, USB RME Babyface, Sonar Platinum Current
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 17:21:52
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I hope you guys are putting feature requests in 
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RD9
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/19 19:00:11
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Adq
Anderton
People need to be specific about MIDI editing, it's not enough to say "better MIDI editing."
Yes, it's a complex question, but the answer is pretty easy.
1. Solve reported bugs.
2. Implement requested features.
Just to clarify; From what I am reading it seems to me that the main focus for CW will be on implementing touch screens into Sonar's workflow. It will be hard work for all involved (programmers and users) but if it comes off this could be a real game changer in the world of DAWs. I will probably lock in Sonar at the end of my membership (March) and sit this year out since I have a control surface. I'll have a look at Sonar in a year or so. In the mean time I will use my $ to take a look at another DAW. BTW; Specific suggestions for MIDI editing and routing exist throughout the Forum as so eloquently posted by Adq. Cheers.
post edited by RD9 - 2016/01/19 21:51:46
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Leee
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/20 12:13:03
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I hardly ever use the keyboard shortcuts, like someone else stated, I don't use SONAR for hours every day, every single day to memorize all those shortcuts. I use some basic ones like copy/paste. But I DO like the programmable shortcut buttons on the top ribbon bar. Those are just as quick as keyboard shortcuts.
When I'm playing my MIDI keyboard, it's easier to grab the mouse and click then to look away from the screen to find the right buttons on the computer keyboard. Just my 2 cents.
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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Beepster
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/20 12:25:14
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Leee
I hardly ever use the keyboard shortcuts, like someone else stated, I don't use SONAR for hours every day, every single day to memorize all those shortcuts. I use some basic ones like copy/paste. But I DO like the programmable shortcut buttons on the top ribbon bar. Those are just as quick as keyboard shortcuts.
When I'm playing my MIDI keyboard, it's easier to grab the mouse and click then to look away from the screen to find the right buttons on the computer keyboard. Just my 2 cents.
The opposite is true for me. When I've got my guitar strapped to me it is WAY easier while tracking to reach out and slap at the keyboard (QWERTY) to control transport and delete functions. I find myself doing it with my eyes closed. R Spacebar Repeat or R Spacebar Ctrl + Z The alternative is having "palm" my pick, take my eyes off the guit (or open them... lol), grab the mouse, navigate to the areas that control those settings and manually click everytime. It would slow things down immensely. I'd like to map all this to my padKontrol one day to make it even easier (just pads so I could TOTALLY do it with my eyes close). The Undo part of it was the problem before because Transport could be controlled with MIDI before reltaively well but I don't think the Undo was (or at least not as easily mappable). Now with the Custom Module I am under the impression I could assign that to a cell and that cell to MIDI note/controller. But that also would mean having the pK hooked up and programmed on my cluttered desk every time when the keyboard is already there and ingrained in my muscle memory. Just goes to show though everyone works in their own way. Flexibility is always good in a program like this so the Custom Module really was a good addition. Much more important/useful than many seem to realize I think. Cheers.
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bz2838
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/20 12:34:55
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Bristol_Jonesey
I hope you guys are putting feature requests in
I have submitted one several months ago, if anyone else is interested and would like to see a chord track for Splat, feel free to submit another one.
Purrrfect Audio: Intel i7 7700k (Kabylake), 32Gig DDR4/2133, Windows 10x64 Pro, USB RME Babyface, Sonar Platinum Current
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bapu
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/20 12:46:59
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Beepster
R
Spacebar
Repeat
or
R
Spacebar
Ctrl + Z
You left out the "navigate finger(s) to..." for each step.
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Beepster
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/20 13:17:47
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/01/20 13:24:40
bapu
You left out the "navigate finger(s) to..." for each step.
The internal BPU* handles that. *"Beepster Processing Unit" Not to be mistaken for the more famouser BAPU (Bassimological Alembic Playing Unit).
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Kylotan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/23 06:27:24
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☄ Helpfulby RD9 2016/02/10 16:27:16
Just to follow up on this... Vastman
Kylotan
Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Don't know WHAT the first part of that sentence is suppose to mean. Sonar is such a huge, powerful, diverse program there is NO "normal way" to use it and can't imagine the people here saying that.
And yet, you've just posted on another thread of mine where I highlight a pretty dumb usability problem and the other poster gets a 'helpful reply' marker for saying, "I know it doesn't work that way, but there's another way, which is less intuitive and takes longer, so I don't see what the problem is". Unsurprisingly the feature I want works as expected, the sensible way, in Reaper. And in FL Studio. Probably does in Studio One and Cubase too, who knows. Paste operations should operate on the canvas currently visible to the user, as that's where the true 'focus' is - not some arbitrary notion of focus the app decides for you, which isn't even visible in the current window. It's tiring. There are so many nonsensical usability issues like this where the people think that just because they know the workaround, that I am somehow stupid for wanting to not have to do things that dumb way. Same happened the other day, with me saying that markers make it hard to do drag and drop arrangement just for people to reply with either, "don't use markers", "don't use drag and drop", or "don't do arrangement in Sonar" (yeah, thanks Captains Obvious). It's as if people are so proud of finding their workarounds for problems that they no longer accept it's a problem in the first place. So, I'm just tired of it. Tired of Sonar having these silly usability quirks, and tired of the pushback I get from noticing them. And with there being nothing of interest delivered in the last 6 months except aux tracks (which I can't use) and nothing of interest planned for Spring 2016 (except the vague 'Core Editing Fixes & Enhancements') I'm out, basically. Crossgrade time, once I get the cash. Life's too short to have to do things the hard way.
post edited by Kylotan - 2016/01/23 06:40:55
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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dcumpian
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/23 08:49:34
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Kylotan
Just to follow up on this...
Vastman
Kylotan
Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Don't know WHAT the first part of that sentence is suppose to mean. Sonar is such a huge, powerful, diverse program there is NO "normal way" to use it and can't imagine the people here saying that.
And yet, you've just posted on another thread of mine where I highlight a pretty dumb usability problem and the other poster gets a 'helpful reply' marker for saying, "I know it doesn't work that way, but there's another way, which is less intuitive and takes longer, so I don't see what the problem is". Unsurprisingly the feature I want works as expected, the sensible way, in Reaper. And in FL Studio. Probably does in Studio One and Cubase too, who knows. Paste operations should operate on the canvas currently visible to the user, as that's where the true 'focus' is - not some arbitrary notion of focus the app decides for you, which isn't even visible in the current window.
It's tiring. There are so many nonsensical usability issues like this where the people think that just because they know the workaround, that I am somehow stupid for wanting to not have to do things that dumb way. Same happened the other day, with me saying that markers make it hard to do drag and drop arrangement just for people to reply with either, "don't use markers", "don't use drag and drop", or "don't do arrangement in Sonar" (yeah, thanks Captains Obvious). It's as if people are so proud of finding their workarounds for problems that they no longer accept it's a problem in the first place.
So, I'm just tired of it. Tired of Sonar having these silly usability quirks, and tired of the pushback I get from noticing them. And with there being nothing of interest delivered in the last 6 months except aux tracks (which I can't use) and nothing of interest planned for Spring 2016 (except the vague 'Core Editing Fixes & Enhancements') I'm out, basically. Crossgrade time, once I get the cash. Life's too short to have to do things the hard way.
If you are doing pure audio, Reaper probably has the workflow you are looking for. If you are doing heavy midi-based compositions with lots of VSTi's, or even external synths, Reaper is going to let you down. There is a lot that you can do with it, and there are plenty of scripts and macros to try and get it to work the way you want, but at the end of the day, they feel like workarounds as well. Cubase or Logic are probably the only DAWs right now that can do what Sonar does midi-wise, and based on the the complaints on the Steinberg forums, there is no greener grass over in Cubase land. Don't know enough about Logic to say one way or the other. There are certainly lots of quirks in Sonar, and I agree completely that workflow could be greatly improved, particularly with things like automation fixes, better grouping, copying FX across tracks, midi layering, arranger track and so on. I do believe that Cakewalk will get there. The years with Roland put them behind the curve, IMO. They'll catch up in the next year or two. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/01/23 12:55:34
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I think Sonar has got it about right when I comes to short cut / mouse control. Most tasks you can do both ways, and that is the way it should be. Shortcuts come into their own in highly repetitive tasks. In most cases for non repeated tasks I prefer the extra control mouse/menu operation gives. Things can go wrong pretty quickly with short cuts if you have the wrong focus, I don't even mind the odd "are you sure" now and again. A few more milliseconds to execute but much safer (and that saves time in the long run). I never really understood why CNTL V/C is supposed to be so much quicker, In most instances you have your hand already on the mouse to select the object, right click and select cut is as fast as reaching across to the keyboard, mouse goes straight to the paste location, right click paste. CNTL V + CNTL C is something I only tend to regularly use in java based programs where its not supported or doing some very repetitive pasting. But there are instances where I will use it if I think its easier, it depends on the task and the software.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2016/01/23 13:08:46
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RD9
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/02/10 16:46:05
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Kylotan
Just to follow up on this...
Vastman
Kylotan
Ultimately I've had to consider whether people are right when they basically say, "if you don't like Sonar, and don't want to use it the normal way, why are you here?" I can try and argue here for the inclusion of features that I like in other DAWs... or I could just use the other DAWs and stop complaining. :)
Don't know WHAT the first part of that sentence is suppose to mean. Sonar is such a huge, powerful, diverse program there is NO "normal way" to use it and can't imagine the people here saying that.
And yet, you've just posted on another thread of mine where I highlight a pretty dumb usability problem and the other poster gets a 'helpful reply' marker for saying, "I know it doesn't work that way, but there's another way, which is less intuitive and takes longer, so I don't see what the problem is". Unsurprisingly the feature I want works as expected, the sensible way, in Reaper. And in FL Studio. Probably does in Studio One and Cubase too, who knows. Paste operations should operate on the canvas currently visible to the user, as that's where the true 'focus' is - not some arbitrary notion of focus the app decides for you, which isn't even visible in the current window.
It's tiring. There are so many nonsensical usability issues like this where the people think that just because they know the workaround, that I am somehow stupid for wanting to not have to do things that dumb way. Same happened the other day, with me saying that markers make it hard to do drag and drop arrangement just for people to reply with either, "don't use markers", "don't use drag and drop", or "don't do arrangement in Sonar" (yeah, thanks Captains Obvious). It's as if people are so proud of finding their workarounds for problems that they no longer accept it's a problem in the first place.
So, I'm just tired of it. Tired of Sonar having these silly usability quirks, and tired of the pushback I get from noticing them. And with there being nothing of interest delivered in the last 6 months except aux tracks (which I can't use) and nothing of interest planned for Spring 2016 (except the vague 'Core Editing Fixes & Enhancements') I'm out, basically. Crossgrade time, once I get the cash. Life's too short to have to do things the hard way.
I understand your point of view and agree that some of the workarounds are too convoluted or restrictive. All I can say is hang in there and keep posting your helpful ideas. Many of these posters are acting in good faith and trying to be helpful but some treat Sonar more as a deity rather than a tool that all of us have paid for so they can be a bit defensive. Of course by telling us to go away when we suggest improvements they probably don't realise that they are actually hurting CW in the long run. Cheers
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Beepster
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/02/10 17:00:21
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Goddammit! Did I just waste my day explaining workflows to someone moving to S1 anyway?!
Sonnuva GAH!!!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/02/10 17:11:26
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CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Chregg
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/02/10 18:02:48
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"Honestly if you wan't WOW effects...check out the specials over at Waves...every weekend. In the last two months, I've picked up the Kramer HLS EQ and Pultec Eq for about 50 bucks Oz!! " bought 11 waves plug-ins over the last year, all weekend specials, seems to be a $300 cap on upgrades if your using them on the one rig
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Kylotan
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Re: My thoughts about planned updates for 2016
2016/02/11 06:21:27
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Beepster
Goddammit! Did I just waste my day explaining workflows to someone moving to S1 anyway?!
Sonnuva GAH!!!
It might help someone else. I'm still here posting bug reports, like the ProChannel hum issue, even though I'm going to change DAWs and even when I'm using Sonar I'll never use the ProChannel anyway. I like being helpful. I just don't like fighting with my tools.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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