NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK

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King Conga
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2013/05/10 12:46:49 (permalink)

NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK

So, I'm not complaining, just the facts ma'am. For the past 2-3 wks I've been trying to use some of Cakewalk's Instruments in my Drum Map Mgr. I posted at least 2 threads re: Dim. Pro, and the fact that, for the life of me, the Drum Map Mgr WILL NOT respond to more than 1 instance of Dim Pro. I was nice and polite, but NO responses. I also placed the same thread on the Sonar 8.5 forum. I even sent msgs, AND called tech support, who also said I should have no trouble using more than 1 instance of DimPro. Oh! But I did have problems, so I not only sent tech support a screenshot, but also the file that I'm working with. BTW, I've also tried DropZone, Cyclone, Rapture, etc. Unfortunately, NONE of them offer a simple multiple pad, multiple outs structure. That was this past Monday, 4 days ago. I also tried to send a private msg to Willy Jones, the Moderator here, but he doesn't accept PM's here. I sent yet another msg to tech support I think yesterday. STILL DEAFENING SILENCE! At this point, I'm just about to give up music and computers altogether; let alone anger management. Again...not complaining, just the facts. What would YOU do, and/or think?
post edited by King Conga - 2013/05/10 13:24:23

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#1

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    Kev999
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/10 21:27:43 (permalink)
    King Conga

    ...I've been trying to use some of Cakewalk's Instruments in my Drum Map Mgr. I posted at least 2 threads re: Dim. Pro, and the fact that, for the life of me, the Drum Map Mgr WILL NOT respond to more than 1 instance of Dim Pro. I was nice and polite, but NO responses...

    You still have not acknowledged the replies received in this thread:

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2824286

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    #2
    swamptooth
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/10 22:23:04 (permalink)
    what i'm guessing from your info is that you're trying to set up a drum map to accommodate sending multiple copies of a single midi note to multiple instances  of a softsynth to multiple instaces of dp.  e.g. you want c2 to route to dim pro 1 and dim pro 2.  unfortunately in drum maps one midi note can only go to one softsynth.  c2 can go to dp1 or dp2 but not both.  the way around this is to edit dp's sfz files.  unfortunately, transpose up and down in midi fx don't work nor does the key+ variable on the midi track.  that would be nice because you could send a c3 from a drum map and set the key+ setting to -12 and play that region of the instrument.

     
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    #3
    RobertB
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/11 00:32:55 (permalink)

    As Kev999 noted, you received several responses. Since you never came back to your own thread, I wondered if you had wasted our time.
    I suspect that swamptooth may be correct. It is starting to appear that you are expecting the drum map to do something other than what it does.
    The drum map mgr is just a tool, a workspace where you can create drum maps.
    The drum map does not respond to the synths. They respond to it. The drum map directs the notes from your MIDI track to the appropriate synth (and may redirect notes to play a different sound if you choose).
    Be aware of your signal path.

    As for multiple outs, none of the synths you have listed do that.
    Session Drummer does,as well as most other drum synths, such as EZ Drummer.
    The outputs are a function of the synth, and the drum map has nothing whatsoever to do with that.

    I believe you know what you want to do, but I'm not sure you understand how the tools you are trying to use work.
    We can probably help you get it sorted, but you have to participate in the discussion.



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    #4
    Kev999
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/11 19:31:31 (permalink)
    swamptooth

    what i'm guessing from your info...
    That's the difficulty, we're just guessing.  We need some clarification from the OP about what he is aiming for and how he is currently going about it.

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    #5
    King Conga
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/22 17:43:55 (permalink)
    Swamptooth, Sorry you misunderstood. No, I'm not trying to do what you suggested; although, 1 of the other synths does that. All I'm trying to do is the following: For notes C3, D3 I wanted to use 1 instance of DimPro (DimPro 1) using the patch called Assorted Kicks and Snares (something named like that), then use DimPro 2 for Assorted Toms (white notes F3-C4), DimPro 3 for Cymbals. I would probably use a number of samples from my Alesis Fusion keyboard for other instruments that don't need as much velocity-sensitivity as the DimPro samples offer. Now, on the DimPro 1 (Assorted Kicks & Snares) I would assign say, a C3(36)INPUT note to F5(46 I think)OUTPUT for my Kick, or note assignments for snare. So, again, my problem is that I can ONLY make ONE instance of DimPro, where I can make as many instances of my Alesis, on as many different channels as I want. I still never heard from Sonar Tech Support though. Hope that makes sense. Thanks, KC

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    dubdisciple
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/22 18:41:03 (permalink)
    It would seem like RobertB's response in the other thread is a start
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    b rock
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/22 19:48:27 (permalink)
    There's a couple things that you're missing here.
    my problem is that I can ONLY make ONE instance of DimPro, where I can make as many instances of my Alesis, on as many different channels as I want.

    There are four little icons to the left of the DIMENSIONPRO logo.  Click the second one from the left (looks like a syringe).  Check Set Program as Multitimbral, then click OK.  This setting is saved with the .prog file.
    For notes C3, D3 I wanted to use 1 instance of DimPro (DimPro 1) using the patch called Assorted Kicks and Snares (something named like that)

    Forget the 'patch' part.  You don't want to use the Program Browser.  That overwrites all four Elements; even if they're initialized and empty of all settings.  An instance is four complete synths [Elements - .elem file]; mixed together with effects and a patch bay as a combi [Program - .prog file].  The core 'oscillators' are .wav files and collections of .wav files (.sfz).
     
    Instead, make sure that you're in Element 1 [E1 lit].  Click on the Multisample slot below it, and load the core .sfz file.  Most of the drums are in the 02 - Drums subfolder.  I'm guessing that you meant the accoustic (sic) bd & sd.sfz here.
    ... then use DimPro 2 for Assorted Toms (white notes F3-C4), ...

    Click on E2, click on the Multisample slot, and load multi toms.sfz.
    ... DimPro 3 for Cymbals.
    Click on E3, click on its Multisample slot, and load stereo cymbals super kit.sfz.  For ****s & giggles, click on E4, click on its Multisample slot, and load another kit in .sfz format.
     
    Now save the program as something (King Conga Drum.prog).
    Now, on the DimPro 1 (Assorted Kicks & Snares) I would assign say, a C3(36)INPUT note to F5(46 I think)OUTPUT for my Kick, or note assignments for snare.

    Go to the Drum Map Manager.  Reassign the input and output notes any way that you want.  Just make sure that the kicks and snares are output to Channel 1, the toms to Channel 2, the cymbals to Channel 3, and whatever to Channel 4.
     
    And - of course - the Drum Map Manager has to 'Out Port' to your new 4-channel multitimbral instance of Dimension Pro.  One small caveat:  It will be mixed down to a single set of stereo audio outputs.  Cakewalk saw fit to squash the multi-out design back when the original Dimension was released.  (Check out the vestigial Outputs parameter in all of the Microhosts.)
     
    Let me know how this works out for you.  This isn't theory.  I do it all of the time.
    #8
    King Conga
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/23 09:24:37 (permalink)
    B Rock, Thanks much for the detailed info. However, unfortunately, it still didn't answer why I'm only able to use one instance. Also, I really don't want to use those other MIDI channels (1-4) that I typically use for other instruments. What I need is something like the old DR-008 from FX-pansion, but since I went to 64Bit it doesn't play well at all, unless I set it up on a 32-Bit machine. Bummer. Again, Thanks for your help. KC

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    chuckebaby
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/23 10:06:28 (permalink)
    2 weeks between posts.
    ouch.. this problem must be serious.

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    b rock
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    Re:NO HELP FROM CAKEWALK 2013/05/23 19:43:46 (permalink)
    I really don't want to use those other MIDI channels (1-4) that I typically use for other instruments.

    I'm with you there.  Between my guitar synth, large keyboard collection, and rack & floor FX, there's not much left for soft synths.  That's why I decided long ago that - if I'm going to run a complex system - I'd better invest in hardware MIDI routers, multiple MIDI Ports, merge and thru capabilities, event processors, and plan my system down to the component level.  It also meant becoming intimately familiar with software features, like MIDI channelizing plugs, the Event Inspector, and 'redirect' features like those in Bounce To Clip(s).
    it still didn't answer why I'm only able to use one instance.

    Just an opinion, but multiple instances for a drum kit is a bit like setting up multiple drum kits onstage, and then running around to play them all in real-time.  But sometimes, that's what it takes.
     
    So, here's how I set that up.  I insert (in this case) four instances of Dimension Pro.  I get rid of all of the extraneous tracks [track folders, and all but one of the paired MIDI tracks].  That leaves five tracks: One 'master' MIDI track, and four 'orphaned' Dimension Pro audio tracks.  (I move the master MIDI to Track 1 for flowcharting clarity.)  It's helpful to relabel the tracks, but unnecessary for this exercise.  Using the Program Browser, load up each instance with the specific whole patches (presets; .prog files) that we've discussed above.
     
    I don't know your MIDI input device, but set that accordingly.  The Drum Map is fed from the Output of the 'master' MIDI track.  In the Drum Map manager, you no longer have to be concerned with MIDI channels.  Dimension Pro's normal state is Omni mode.  The major area of interest is the Out Port setting:
     
    Dimension Pro -1 (= Kicks & Snares)
    Dimension Pro -2 (= Multi Toms)
    Dimension Pro -3 (= Cymbals)
    Dimension Pro -4 (= Whatever)
     
    Now you route and re-route those MIDI note values to the specific 'drum synth' instance [DimPro 1-4 in the Out Port] that you need.  One good thing about the 'reduced track count' scheme is that you have visual feedback on your Drum Map progress (after hitting OK).  You'll have meter activity in the Track View on the 'master' MIDI track (always), and one-of-four instances of DimPro (depending on which 'drum' is struck).
     
    As to why you're not quite getting there, I can't say.  It's possible that you're routing to a 'dead area' of a given DP preset.  Nearly all of the drum presets are mapped to a narrower range of MIDI notes, and some are close to (but not quite) GM mapping.  Something to check first before attempting a complex drum map from scratch.
     
    Or perhaps you were using the default two tracks per-instance (one MIDI; one audio; not counting a track folder).  That may work as well, but ... I've always broken it down to the least common denominator. Avoid clutter, confusion, and redundancy.  The system(s) that I've described work here, without fail.  That doesn't help in your situation, but maybe something here will trigger a thought, or point you to the right direction.
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