Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence

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SonicExplorer
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2017/12/19 19:14:10 (permalink)

Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence

*** UPDATE:  Hang Dump Provided in Post #12 ***
 
Gents,
 
I'm running a newly rebuilt 32 bit DAW with RME FF400, Sonar 5.2 PE and WinXP (yes, I realize the versions are old) and I'm experiencing random lockups in Sonar that appear somehow related to recording being enabled, often after recording.  I get the Windows hour glass and Sonar stays hung that way, leaving me to kill Sonar with Task Manager.  I've tried the obvious like buffers, picture cache, etc. no change.  HOWEVER, I did find something very interesting which I now believe is major evidence the problem is within Sonar and am hoping somebody on the forum might know what is happening...

I looked in the Audio Data folder and there is always a file after every crash that is NOT one I recorded.  It is usually time stamped shortly after the most recent take, and the naming convention differs.  The sequence looks like this:
 
SonarAudioTest, Rec(762)                                 4KB           12/19/2017     12:52pm
SonarAudioTest, Guitar Left, Rec(758)      1900KB     12/19/2017     12:44pm
 
The 2nd file is the take I recorded, but the first one I have no idea what it is - seems Sonar created it on it's own, and that is right when Sonar hung.   The file is a type WAV - but not valid according to other software.
 
Any experts on the forum know what is happening here?  The answer to the lock-ups likely lies in the above evidence.   
 
      Sonic
post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/07 01:48:57
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    KPerry
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/19 20:19:35 (permalink)
    That file is created when you allow record arming during playback/record (I forget the preferences setting though).

    Windows 7 x64 SP1
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    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/19 21:30:25 (permalink)
    KPerry
    That file is created when you allow record arming during playback/record (I forget the preferences setting though).

     
    You're right, I see how the file is created on start of playback and then erased when stopped.  I wonder though if that file I/O (creating and deleting) is what is causing trouble somehow.  I looked around and couldn't find that preference setting.  
     
    I have no idea why the system is doing this, 10+ years and never had a problem until I rebuilt this new DAW. Besides the motherboard (Intel Dual Core P), the only difference is W2K vs. XP and a PCI vs. PCIe firewire card.  Everything else, all software, drivers and external hardware are identical.  But for some reason once I have a track armed Sonar decides to randomly lock up.  Even sometimes when I'm not even playing or recording.  Memory is fine too, so it's not a resource problem.  No other symptoms or problems with any other software in the box as far as I can tell either.
     
    I predict low probability of finding the cause on my own without some help from the experts on the forum.  I've tried almost everything I can think of at this point...   Last thing I'm now attempting is turning off the multi-processor setting inside Sonar as well as the 64-bit mix engine.   
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2017/12/20 04:41:21
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    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/20 19:17:36 (permalink)
    Well, that didn't work, even with multi-processor and 64-bit mix engine options disabled still locked up.   Hmmmm..... what about MaxPlugInBufSizeKB or ExtraPluginBufs in Aud.ini?  Any chance that might be it, not set high enough??  Presently set to 128 and 0.  
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2017/12/20 19:48:17
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    msmcleod
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/20 20:23:22 (permalink)
    Are you sure nothing else is trying to access that folder?
     
    I had a heap of problems with OneDrive trying to sync my audio folder whilst I was recording to it. Once I disabled OneDrive, the problems went away.
     
    This folder should also be excluded from any virus checkers.
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    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/20 22:16:08 (permalink)
    Well, changing those buffer settings didn't work.
     
    Yeah, as far as I know nothing else accessing the audio folder.  It's just a pure DAW, no virus scanning, no network connection, no non-audio software installed.
     
    One thing I'm noticing is every time I stop playback/recording there is a pop sound.  It is registering on the RME Fireface 400 Out1 LED on the front panel.  Even if I mute all the tracks, still that pop. Strange because nothing ever caused that Out1 LED to blink before best I recall. I wonder if that has anything to do with the problem.
     
    Am also wondering, could the problem be video driver related somehow?  I'm simply stumped.   When the hang occurs the processor readout in task manager sticks at about 50% usage and both cores are processing away on something.  But Sonar never returns, Windows hourglass forever.
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2017/12/21 19:00:15
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    msmcleod
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/22 05:19:51 (permalink)
    I've been having Sonar hang on me for the past couple of weeks. I put it down to a Windows 10 update, but I switched to my Window 7 boot and it started doing the same.
     
    I only noticed today that Cakewalk Analytics is still enabled - which I assumed was doing nothing, but maybe it's trying to communicate with a dead server and hanging Sonar?
     
    Anyhow I've turned it off - too early to tell if it's fixed the problem, but might be worth a shot.
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    bvideo
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/22 15:50:07 (permalink)
    SonicExplorer: Have you tried what KPerry talked about? That setting definitely changes the way Sonar accesses the audio drivers when starting and stopping the transport. Two clues lead up to it: the popping noise and the extra file.
     
    Edit > Preferences > Project - Record  uncheck [] Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record

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    mudgel
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/22 18:34:48 (permalink)
    You mentioned a PCI vs a PCIe FireWire Card. If that was part of your recent change then that’s a likely culprit if your motherboard also has PCIe slots.

    In those boards the PCI slot is emulated and is not very reliable or stable. Known to cause problems just like you describe. Also the chipset on the FireWire Card is critical for stability. Usually a Texas Instruments one is recommended.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/23 07:08:07 (permalink)
    Guys, many thanks for hanging with me.   I will try unchecking the "allow arm changes during playback" option as soon as I finish the current testing and report back.  Right now am running a few other trials such as putting PFSendMute back to 0 (that was the only manual change I made to Aud.ini).  Also increased MIDI buffers in case it is related to the drum DXi. 
     
    A bit tedious testing since I do not have a specific method to reliably reproduce the hang.
     
    BTW, I am running a PCIe firewire card with a TI chipset.
     
    Sonic
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    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2017/12/24 07:00:44 (permalink)
    Ok, I solved the mystery of the Out1 LED on the front of the FF400: There is a setting in Sonar that sends some kind of MIDI data on stop.  Once I unchecked that, no more mystery data on the FF400 output.  
     
    I can't find the setting referred to earlier WRT allowing arm changes during playback.  Where exactly is that located??  I hunted all over, is that maybe a checkbox added post Sonar 5 ??
     
    Also, it occurred to me the hang problem just might be a runtime library compatibility issue.  XP SP3 has runtime library files dated 2008 that might be causing Sonar 5 grief (which uses 2005 RTL's IIRC).   
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2017/12/26 05:43:55
    #11
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 01:36:23 (permalink)
    Guys, when I get lock-ups it's almost always as a result of stopping the transport.  I ran a utility that provides a snapshot of the system info but it's a bit over my head, any of you computer experts maybe glean anything from this:....???
    ------------------------------
     
    Hang report for C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR 5 Producer Edition\SONARPDR.EXE
    Generated by using WhatIsHang.exe on 4/6/2018 7:33:18 PM
     
    Remarks:
    * This program hangs because it waits on another system object. The type of the system object is Event and its handle is 0xd94
    * A reference to a remote network file was found in the call stack. If this network file cannot be accessed, it might cause the hang problem. The filename is \\?\1394#a35&2#411908221350a00#{6994ad04-93ef-11d0-a3cc-00a0c9223196}\hdspfireu

    Strings found in the stack:
    .?AUITopologyManager@@
    name "tom4FX"
    filename "TO05_04_DS_FH_R_"
    velocityknee H 101
    cycle S NOT
    14.2.0.228
    __unaligned
    \Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR 5 Producer Edition;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS\system;C:\WINDOWS;.;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WI
    C:\PROGRA~1\DIRECT~1
    D$ SVW‹ñ‹L$(PQ‹Î‰t$è¾yÛÿF3ÿP‰|$$ÿÄ3è
    C:\Program File
    `:6vg:6v
    __GLOBAL_HEAP_SELECTED
    ienc2hfdùY½¸Å
    .?AUIAudEffectsBin@@
    alternate
    velvol
    }
    pad {
    name "tom5FX"
    filename "TO03_05_DS_FH_R_"
    velocit
    CAudParamCollection
    prcp.nls
    big5.nls
    PSVhV#û
    \\?\1394#a35&2#411908221350a00#{6994ad04-93ef-11d0-a3cc-00a0c9223196}\hdspfireu
    ud.drv
    16]=RolaDï¸S Power Pï¸Key[0,24\ï¸land GS hï¸tronic S
    Key[16256
    \??\C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR 5 P
    Vol = 0.0
    ;C:\WINDOWS\syst

    Modules found in the stack:
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\MFC71U.DLL , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Visual Studio .NET, MFCDLL Shared Library - Retail Version
    C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR 5 Producer Edition\CJ609Lib.dll , CodeJock.com URL: http://www.codejock.com , CJLibrary MFC Extension Library, CJLibrary MFC Component Library
    C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\X86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.5512_x-ww_35d4ce83\COMCTL32.dll , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Windows® Operating System, User Experience Controls Library
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVCR71.dll , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Visual Studio .NET, Microsoft® C Runtime Library
    C:\PROGRA~1\DIRECT~1\adapvst2.dll , Kirill Katsnelson , DirectiXer, VST2 DirectX Adapter
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\wdmaud.drv , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Windows® Operating System, WDM Audio driver mapper
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\myokent.dll , Jamie O'Connell , MIDI Yoke Junction NT, MIDI Yoke Junction NT
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\WINMM.dll , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Windows® Operating System, MCI API DLL
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\WMVCore.DLL , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Windows Media Services, Windows Media Playback/Authoring DLL
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\RPCRT4.dll , Microsoft Corporation , Microsoft® Windows® Operating System, Remote Procedure Call Runtime
    C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR 5 Producer Edition\TTSRES14.DLL , Twelve Tone Systems, Inc. , SONAR 5 Producer Edition, SONARPDR.EXE
     
    ********************************************************************************


    ThreadID: 1284

    Execute Address:
    7C90E4F4 ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
     
    Call Stack:
    0013F0F8 7C901046 ntdll.dll!RtlEnterCriticalSection+0x46
    0013F164 009B9B5F SONARPDR.EXE+0x5b9b5f
    0013F180 006B4F48 SONARPDR.EXE+0x2b4f48
    0013F1D4 006B5E98 SONARPDR.EXE+0x2b5e98
    0013F1F0 7C27CE71 MFC71U.DLL+0x2ce71
    0013F220 7C27D571 MFC71U.DLL+0x2d571
    0013F254 005E2129 SONARPDR.EXE+0x1e2129
    0013F28C 7C28522C MFC71U.DLL+0x3522c
    0013F2DC 7C2853A3 MFC71U.DLL+0x353a3
    0013F3A0 7C27B27D MFC71U.DLL+0x2b27d
    0013F3C0 7C27B31C MFC71U.DLL+0x2b31c
    0013F420 7C27B385 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b385
    0013F440 7C27B3C3 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b3c3
    0013F46C 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F498 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F500 7E42A013 USER32.dll!IsWindowUnicode+0xa1
    0013F530 7E42A039 USER32.dll!CallWindowProcW+0x1b
    0013F550 1002CFBA CJ609Lib.dll!?WindowProc@CJSubclassWnd@@MAEJIIJ@Z+0x27
    0013F56C 004FC37A SONARPDR.EXE+0xfc37a
    0013F588 1002D184 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0x16b
    0013F5C4 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F5F0 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F658 7E428EA0 USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x180
    0013F6AC 7E428EEC USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x1cc
    0013F6D4 7C90E453 ntdll.dll!KiUserCallbackDispatcher+0x13
    0013F734 7E4292E3 USER32.dll!SendMessageW+0x49
    0013F754 774448AA COMCTL32.dll+0x748aa
    0013F77C 7744571B COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0xb67
    0013F82C 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F858 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F8C0 7E42A013 USER32.dll!IsWindowUnicode+0xa1
    0013F8F0 7E42A039 USER32.dll!CallWindowProcW+0x1b
    0013F910 7C27ABDA MFC71U.DLL+0x2abda
    0013F930 7C27C6DD MFC71U.DLL+0x2c6dd
    0013F9E4 7C27B27D MFC71U.DLL+0x2b27d
    0013FA04 7C27D65A MFC71U.DLL+0x2d65a
    0013FA28 7C27B31C MFC71U.DLL+0x2b31c
    0013FA88 7C27B385 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b385
    0013FAA8 7C27B3C3 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b3c3
    0013FAD4 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013FB00 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013FB68 7E4189CD USER32.dll!GetWindowLongW+0x127
    0013FBC8 7E418A10 USER32.dll!DispatchMessageW+0xf
    0013FBD8 7E4274FF USER32.dll!IsDialogMessageW+0xdb
    0013FBFC 7C263449 MFC71U.DLL+0x13449
    0013FC70 7C283857 MFC71U.DLL+0x33857
    0013FD34 7C27B191 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b191
    7C265CD7 6B28E8F1

    Stack Data:
    0013F070 7C90DF3C ntdll.dll!NtWaitForSingleObject+0xc
    0013F074 7C91B22B ntdll.dll!RtlpWaitForCriticalSection+0x8c
    0013F078 00000D94
    0013F07C 00000000
    0013F080 00000000
    0013F084 0521E648
    0013F088 0521E734
    0013F08C 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F090 0036A2F0 MSVCR71.dll!__RTDynamicCast+0x61
    0013F094 0521E648
    0013F098 00DA88A4 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9a88a4
    0013F09C 0036A30F MSVCR71.dll!__RTDynamicCast+0x80
    0013F0A0 0036A2A9 MSVCR71.dll!__RTDynamicCast+0x1a
    0013F0A4 00000000
    0013F0A8 00000000
    0013F0AC 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F0B0 00FA7030
    0013F0B4 00FA8240
    0013F0B8 0521E440
    0013F0BC 0013F144
    0013F0C0 3836AA18 adapvst2.dll+0x2aa18
    0013F0C4 00000000
    0013F0C8 00000000
    0013F0CC 00D073F8 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9073f8
    0013F0D0 0521E648
    0013F0D4 0521E648
    0013F0D8 00D07398 SONARPDR.EXE+0x907398
    0013F0DC 0013F0A4
    0013F0E0 00000000
    0013F0E4 0013F128
    0013F0E8 0035240D MSVCR71.dll!_except_handler3
    0013F0EC 00390F78 MSVCR71.dll+0x40f78
    0013F0F0 00000000
    0013F0F4 00000D94
    0013F0F8 0013F164
    0013F0FC 7C901046 ntdll.dll!RtlEnterCriticalSection+0x46
    0013F100 0021EB40
    0013F104 00A13076 SONARPDR.EXE+0x613076
    0013F108 0521EB40
    0013F10C 0521E734
    0013F110 008A3E91 SONARPDR.EXE+0x4a3e91
    0013F114 00000000
    0013F118 00000000
    0013F11C 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F120 0521E734
    0013F124 10359FF8
    0013F128 0013F1C8
    0013F12C 00C03F28 SONARPDR.EXE+0x803f28
    0013F130 FFFFFFFF
    0013F134 0083BADC SONARPDR.EXE+0x43badc
    0013F138 015BFCF8
    0013F13C 00000000
    0013F140 00000000
    0013F144 01B8F810
    0013F148 009B9804 SONARPDR.EXE+0x5b9804
    0013F14C 00000000
    0013F150 00000000
    0013F154 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F158 00DDE678 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9de678
    0013F15C 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F160 00DE1530 SONARPDR.EXE+0x9e1530
    0013F164 0013F180
    0013F168 009B9B5F SONARPDR.EXE+0x5b9b5f
    0013F16C 00000000
    0013F170 00961A62 SONARPDR.EXE+0x561a62
    0013F184 006B4F48 SONARPDR.EXE+0x2b4f48
    0013F190 00C58C80 SONARPDR.EXE+0x858c80
    0013F1A0 7C282166 MFC71U.DLL+0x32166
    0013F1A4 7C27CE32 MFC71U.DLL+0x2ce32
    0013F1CC 00BEADB6 SONARPDR.EXE+0x7eadb6
    0013F1D8 006B5E98 SONARPDR.EXE+0x2b5e98
    0013F1E4 7C284884 MFC71U.DLL+0x34884
    0013F1E8 00C58C80 SONARPDR.EXE+0x858c80
    0013F1F4 7C27CE71 MFC71U.DLL+0x2ce71
    0013F204 00411A95 SONARPDR.EXE+0x11a95
    0013F224 7C27D571 MFC71U.DLL+0x2d571
    0013F24C 7C316780 MFC71U.DLL+0xc6780
    0013F258 005E2129 SONARPDR.EXE+0x1e2129
    0013F284 00BDED74 SONARPDR.EXE+0x7ded74
    0013F290 7C28522C MFC71U.DLL+0x3522c
    0013F2B4 7C316CDC MFC71U.DLL+0xc6cdc
    0013F2C0 7C282166 MFC71U.DLL+0x32166
    0013F2C8 7E42910F USER32.dll!GetParent
    0013F2D0 7C27CD0E MFC71U.DLL+0x2cd0e
    0013F2E0 7C2853A3 MFC71U.DLL+0x353a3
    0013F2F8 7C28DCA9 MFC71U.DLL+0x3dca9
    0013F310 7C285246 MFC71U.DLL+0x35246
    0013F328 7C316504 MFC71U.DLL+0xc6504
    0013F334 7C27B385 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b385
    0013F34C 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F354 7C27B3C3 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b3c3
    0013F35C 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F374 7C3162A0 MFC71U.DLL+0xc62a0
    0013F380 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F398 7C3166D8 MFC71U.DLL+0xc66d8
    0013F3A4 7C27B27D MFC71U.DLL+0x2b27d
    0013F3C4 7C27B31C MFC71U.DLL+0x2b31c
    0013F400 7C316308 MFC71U.DLL+0xc6308
    0013F418 7C316504 MFC71U.DLL+0xc6504
    0013F424 7C27B385 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b385
    0013F43C 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F444 7C27B3C3 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b3c3
    0013F464 7C3162A0 MFC71U.DLL+0xc62a0
    0013F470 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F484 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F494 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F49C 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F4A0 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F4B8 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F4D8 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F4EC 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F4F4 7E44048F USER32.dll!DeregisterShellHookWindow+0x1cf
    0013F4F8 7E418830 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x169
    0013F504 7E42A013 USER32.dll!IsWindowUnicode+0xa1
    0013F50C 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F534 7E42A039 USER32.dll!CallWindowProcW+0x1b
    0013F538 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F554 1002CFBA CJ609Lib.dll!?WindowProc@CJSubclassWnd@@MAEJIIJ@Z+0x27
    0013F558 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F570 004FC37A SONARPDR.EXE+0xfc37a
    0013F58C 1002D184 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0x16b
    0013F5A0 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F5C8 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F5DC 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F5EC 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F5F4 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F5F8 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F64C 7E44048F USER32.dll!DeregisterShellHookWindow+0x1cf
    0013F650 7E418830 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x169
    0013F65C 7E428EA0 USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x180
    0013F664 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F6A0 7E44048F USER32.dll!DeregisterShellHookWindow+0x1cf
    0013F6A4 7E428EB0 USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x190
    0013F6B0 7E428EEC USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x1cc
    0013F6C4 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F6D8 7C90E453 ntdll.dll!KiUserCallbackDispatcher+0x13
    0013F6F4 1002D103 CJ609Lib.dll!??0CJSubclassWnd@@QAE@XZ+0xea
    0013F6F8 7E428E53 USER32.dll!DefWindowProcW+0x133
    0013F6FC 7E4194BE USER32.dll!GetWindowLongA+0x61
    0013F700 7E42C174 USER32.dll!SetPropW+0xbb
    0013F720 7E429313 USER32.dll!IsWindow
    0013F738 7E4292E3 USER32.dll!SendMessageW+0x49
    0013F758 774448AA COMCTL32.dll+0x748aa
    0013F780 7744571B COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0xb67
    0013F79C 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F7A4 7C316504 MFC71U.DLL+0xc6504
    0013F7B0 7C27B385 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b385
    0013F7C8 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F7D0 7C27B3C3 MFC71U.DLL+0x2b3c3
    0013F7D8 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F7F0 7C3162A0 MFC71U.DLL+0xc62a0
    0013F7FC 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F810 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F820 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F830 7E418734 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x6d
    0013F844 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F854 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F85C 7E418816 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x14f
    0013F860 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F878 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F87C 00A3921B SONARPDR.EXE+0x63921b
    0013F8B4 7E44048F USER32.dll!DeregisterShellHookWindow+0x1cf
    0013F8B8 7E418830 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x169
    0013F8C4 7E42A013 USER32.dll!IsWindowUnicode+0xa1
    0013F8CC 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F8F4 7E42A039 USER32.dll!CallWindowProcW+0x1b
    0013F8F8 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F914 7C27ABDA MFC71U.DLL+0x2abda
    0013F918 77444BEB COMCTL32.dll!CreateToolbar+0x37
    0013F934 7C27C6DD MFC71U.DLL+0x2c6dd
    0013F948 00A39242 SONARPDR.EXE+0x639242
    0013F950 7C27D4B1 MFC71U.DLL+0x2d4b1
    0013F994 7E44048F USER32.dll!DeregisterShellHookWindow+0x1cf
    0013F998 7E418830 USER32.dll!GetDC+0x169
    0013F9A0 7E41882A USER32.dll!GetDC+0x163
    0013F9A4 7E42A013 USER32.dll!IsWindowUnicode+0xa1
    0013F9AC 7C27B38A MFC71U.DLL+0x2b38a
    0013F9D0 00CC5CD8 SONARPDR.EXE+0x8c5cd8
    0013F9DC 7C3166D8 MFC71U.DLL+0xc66d8
    0013F9E8 7C27B27D MFC71U.DLL+0x2b27d
    0013F9F4 00CC5D70 SONARPDR.EXE+0x8c5d70
    0013FA08 7C27D65A MFC71U.DLL+0x2d65a
     
    Processor Registers:
    EAX: 00000000
    EBX: 00000000
    ECX: 00000000
    EDX: 00000000
    ESI: 0521EB40
    EDI: 00000000
    EBP: 0013F0F8
    ESP: 0013F070
    EIP: 7C90E4F4 ntdll.dll!KiFastSystemCallRet
     
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/07 02:13:52
    #12
    Studio-ES
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 02:34:55 (permalink)
    Have you checked for IRQ conflicts between your graphics card & your Firewire PCI card? Or other IRQ conflicts?
    Your dump reminded me of an issue I had 20 years ago on WinXP with an old M-Audio Delta PCI card and some other stuff I had in there-gaming graphics card, SW1000XG, etc. Or maybe it was the Adaptec SCSI card, not fond memories.
    Anyway, check your IRQs in Device Manager, IIRC 16 is a troublesome one. Remove any less-important devices that use the same number or at least try to change its IRQ. Or move it to another slot. Probably not helpful but worth a look.
    #13
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 03:57:16 (permalink)
    Yes, IRQ's is something I was careful about from the beginning, HOWEVER, there is no controlling the IRQ mapping on this motherboard.  That's why I intentionally changed to a PCIe firewire card when I built the system.  There's no other cards, just the PCIe firewire. Turned off network card, turned off parallel port and serial port.  Using onboard GPU.  I still think there may be some kind of conflict though between the graphics and audio/firewire.  I'm trying to get the full history for the audio driver from RME....the release notes currently don't go back far enough so I can't see what may have been fixed.  I darn sure don't want to risk installing an audio driver that is 10 years newer unless I'm confident there was actually something in there that might fix the problem.  I never had issues before on my W2K box with the driver - ran flawlessly.  If only I knew whether this problem was due to XP (or SP3) or not, it would greatly narrow things down as to whether I should roll back to W2K.  Ugh.  Everything is working great but for this one sporadic issue - but it's a MAJOR problem because I lose all my work between saves.
    #14
    Studio-ES
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 04:28:15 (permalink)
    Looks like it's crashing after trying to find a missing file?
    \\?\1394#a35&2#411908221350a00#{6994ad04-93ef-11d0-a3cc-00a0c9223196}\hdspfireu
    ud.drv
    Something to do with firewire, KS audio driver, & RME driver. Did you try switching Driver Mode?
    #15
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 05:33:17 (permalink)
    I saw that but I think it's just data on the stack, something which the tool is making a best guess at as to it's relevance to the hang. There is no such file, I even Googled it and no such thing.  I'm leaning toward this not being a driver thing.... probably not even a HW thing.  It seems more likely related to a plug-in, a setting or incompatibility with XP/SP3.   If this was a driver or HW thing I'd most likely be seeing all kinds of other problems, and more frequently.  But this is isolated just to Sonar 5 - usually when the transport stops, and is very intermittent.
     
    The fact the friggin' problem is not reliably reproducible is making it a nightmare to narrow down.....
    #16
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 06:35:52 (permalink)
    I keep remembering lots of problems I had with elaborate MIDI Yoke loopback configs with Yamaha synths/samplers that send lots of extra MIDI info when Stop is pressed. Also a google search "sonar hangs when pressing stop" shows several other Sonar 4/5 users with a similar problem from 12 years ago, but no resolution to those threads. I also vaguely remembering having lots of issues when running DXi synths simultaneously with VSTis with that horrid Cakewalk VST wrapper. If it happens only when the transport is stopped, maybe try monitoring & logging disk i/o with one of the sysinternals apps. Or running CrystalDiskInfo. Sorry if I'm just adding to your frustration.
    #17
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 08:03:11 (permalink)
    No worry, by all means please keep any ideas coming !!
     
    I too wondered about MIDI Yoke but I'm not using it right now and yet still crashing.  And I never had a problem with MY on W2K.  Also, i have no external MIDI devices either, just Superior Drummer VSTi.  I did indeed search like crazy on the forum and Google all over...and found exactly as you mention - there were some others in the S4/S5 era with hang problems but no resolution.  Keep in mind, I'm using ALL the EXACT same software as before on my previous W2K DAW - and same audio interface & drivers.  There's no new equation here except for XP and a dual-core Intel Pentium (as compared to my previous P4 single core).   It does seem, as you point out, some internal operation(s) may be happening upon stop, but what I have no idea.  If it was a disk problem it would almost surely be showing itself in other areas, not just Sonar under this one specific hang scenario.   
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/07 08:46:51
    #18
    mudgel
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 09:57:33 (permalink)
    Have you caught up on the latest news that Sonar no longer exists but has been bought by Soundlab and released as free software just a few days ago. All you need do is go to BandLab.com, sign up to a free account and download the latest version of what is now called Cakewalk by Bamdlab. You’d get about 10-12 years of development for free.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

    STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
    PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz.
    Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2.
    Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub.
    Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX.
    Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor.
    Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
    #19
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/07 18:40:12 (permalink)
    That's great to hear, but the latest Sonar won't run on anything but Win7 or later, right?  Or maybe even requires Win10 by now??   I won't be able to load all my existing software on a "modern" machine.  And who's to say I won't run into even worse problems on a "new" machine?   I'm 100% fine with the features of my existing software and have way more horsepower now than i'll ever need with this new XP box.   And I'll remain compatible with 15 years of projects.   So thanks very much, sincerely, for point out the pathway of a free Sonar upgrade (which I may download anyway to have for the future just in case), but I really need to focus on getting the present DAW quirk figured out. 
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/08 21:05:22
    #20
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/08 21:10:59 (permalink)
    * Update *
     
    Since I cannot reproduce the hang reliably, I decided to work on the one other issue I recall encountering before, being multiple projects open and trying to play them each back and forth.  Instant freakout, CPU spike, etc.  Upon much investigation, it turns out to be a combination of 2, and possibly 3, things.  1) Live Synth Pro 2) Having at least 1 of the projects with BOTH Superior Drummer 1 and 2 loaded and 3) MIDI Yoke input selected on a track (even though there is nothing effectively being input).
     
    Need to do more experimenting with various permutations of the above to try and learn more detail as to what is causing that problem.  I was aware LSP can be picky on multi processor machines.  But within a single project I hadn't encountered issues as long as I kept the MIDI channels separated.  Clearly though, there's a very strange dynamic going on with respect to these particular synths in the Synth Rack with multiple projects open.  So this may be a clue that might help lead me to figuring out what my main hang issue is all about.  Hopefully....
     
    Again, thanks for anybody still reading, and please keep any suggestions coming.....
     
    Sonic
    #21
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/09 03:45:26 (permalink)
    Here's another update.  I noticed I was crashing upon close of a project at times and tracked down the cause, which leads me to believe all this may be a Sonar 5 problem.
     
    1) Open Project
    2) Open and close ANY plug within the console view that does NOT result in Sonar acknowledging a change transpired (no asterisk next to the file name in the title bar)
    3) Close the project .....and  CRASH!!!   (Normally it should ask if you want to save changes, but Sonar apparently doesn't realize a change was made, indicated by lack of asterisk in title bar, and crashes)
     
    For example this can easily be replicated by simply opening & closing the Sonitus EQ on a track, then closing the project.
     
    Leaves me wondering if my problems are simply a buggy S5 design or if there's some strange system interaction going on. 
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/09 05:40:51
    #22
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/09 09:20:31 (permalink)
    Well, no such luck on any of the above clues.  It seems they are entirely unrelated to the hang.  I basically ripped everything out of the Synth Rack except for one drum synth and yet still got a hang (actually twice, alternated between Superior 1 and Superior 2 and got hangs both ways).  I also noticed at the time of hang the CPU meter in Sonar was 0% yet the CPU meter in Task Manager was registering 50%.
     
    I'm just about of ideas at this point....
     
    Sonic
    #23
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/09 10:06:28 (permalink)
    Did you try enabling (or disabling) read & write-caching? Both inside SONAR & Windows Control Panel for your HDD? And write-cache buffer flushing? In Device Manager for your HDD?
    How about just hitting Ctrl>S & waiting a bit prior to closing SONAR? Does that help?
    #24
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/09 21:49:32 (permalink)
    Thanks for the suggestions!
     
    I was planning on doing exactly that today, because i have write caching enabled inside Sonar, but not read. So I will try that, and double-check the Control Panel and Device Mgr.   I did however already try waiting on the hang for about 10 minutes, it never returned.  But I have no idea about Ctrl>S is....never heard of that - but will try that as well...
    #25
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/10 00:15:16 (permalink)
    UPDATE:  Ok, so I set the Read Caching in Sonar....but after reading the help file I learned something NOT obvious yet critical: The cache settings don't take effect until after you restart Sonar, even though you get no warning to that effect.  So....any testing I had done previously with these settings was bogus because I would not have restarted Sonar.   Also, I double checked that write caching was already enabled on the OS side (DevMgr).
     
    Thus far I have noticed with Read Caching enabled in Sonar that disk usage has gone to ZERO in PerfMon.  So, should the hang go away would that mean we are just masking the problem??  I mean, what would this tell us, that there's a disk I/O quirk?  Which I find doubtful because if there were it would almost surely be more broad-based and not isolated to this one specific hang condition.
     
    Anyway, I'll pound on this new config (Read Cache enabled in Sonar) to try and get it to hang and report back....
    #26
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/10 00:58:58 (permalink)
    CTRL+S for saving the Project prior to closing it. Worth a try.

    Another couple of things that come to mind:
    1. In your motherboard's BIOS there may be more low-level options for the disk that can make a significant impact.
    2. I do recall that replacing my ATAPI/IDE HDDs with SATA made a huge difference (as long as the motherboard has the SATA port-I think you have to slip-stream the SATA driver during the WinXP installation so that may not help in this case).
     
    The usual tips:
    A log off/log on may be necessary after making changes in DevMgr. Reboot is even better.
    Defrag your disk.

    Don't forget to read all the WinXP Audio Tweak Guides you can, i.e. this is vital:
     
    Enable DMA mode for all hard disk drives (WinXP):
    1. Check to make sure the transfer mode for your hard disk drive(s) is set to the DMA mode, otherwise the disk access speed will be poor.
    2. Go to Control Panel > System > Hardware tab > Device Manager button. Expand the entry labeled IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. Right click on the Primary IDE Channel item and select Properties and go to the Advanced Settings tab.
    3. Check that the Transfer Mode options are set to DMA if available for all channels. Repeat this for all IDE channel items beneath IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.
    #27
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/10 02:35:15 (permalink)
    Ok, so read/write cache enabled/disabled inside Sonar made no difference on the hang issue.
     
    There's no low-level tweaks in the BIOS for disk besides choosing IDE/SATA. Very basic BIOS, intel G41 board.  All the latest updates too.  And i already did ALL the things mentioned above.  One thing I did notice however is that Windows is showing the main OS disk on the IDE Primary Channel, while the Audio disk is on the IDE Secondary channel (along with the CD/DVD drive).  Not sure if that matters WRT this hang problem, but I really doubt it.
     
    The hang seems to always be when I stop the transport.  I'm still trying to find some way to replicate the problem, it happens only once in 100+ times.  Seems like it might be related to the display possibly, mouse action or something like that.   I'm right now testing on a project where I ripped most all the plugs out to see if I can still duplicate the hang.   It's really maddening to troubleshoot with no means to reliably replicate the problem.... 
    #28
    Studio-ES
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/10 02:56:14 (permalink)
    Didn't realize that you had 2 HDDs. Where is SONAR installed? Where is your audio data? I always had problems when the audio data is physically separate from the Cakewalk program files. (Been doing this since mid-1990s).
    This is important:
    If SONAR is accessing anything on the same IDE channel as the CD/DVD drive, you'll want to find the patch that stops WinXP from checking every few seconds if there is a CD in the drive. Better yet let the CD/DVD drive live by itself on that channel, and put Cakewalk program files & audio dir on Primary. I'm surprised it only happens 1/100 if indeed the audio disk is on the same IDE channel as the CD/DVD.

    Clevo 17" | i7-3630QM | 16GB HyperX | 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD | GTX680m SLI | WIN7-64bit | Cakewalk by BandLab 2018.04 | SONAR X1 Studio (Retired) | Project5 | VS-100
    #29
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Need Help, Sonar Locking Up - New Evidence 2018/04/10 03:38:18 (permalink)
    Ok, I ripped out all the plugs and still hang.  The only thing I have left is ONE DXi wrapped in Directixer (Superior Drummer).  Fails with either Superior 1 or Superior 2 so I don't think the DXi is the issue, unless it is the wrapper (Directixer) that is responsible.  But I have no safe/easy way to eliminate that variable at the moment. I seriously doubt Directixer is the issue.
     
    Next I'm going to try a painful start/stop test sequence - but not moving the mouse away from the focus of the area where the transport buttons are and see if that makes a difference.
     
    I'm a bit suspect about MIDIYoke being loaded, even though it's not being used, so to speak.  Not sure if maybe I should risk trying to disable it in the DevMgr Devices view....
     
    Yes, I have separate OS and Audio disk, always ran that way before no problem.  But that was on a W2K single-CPU/core system.   
     
    I just compared another hang dump and it's literally almost identical, whatever is happening is likely the same thing, at least that much is encouraging - meaning it is indeed ONE CONSISTENT problem.
     
    I could re-locate the audio disk onto the same Primary IDE Channel as the OS disk as long as it isn't going to confuse Windows and cause a domino effect.  My original thinking was to make use of the separate IDE Channels to reduce any potential conflicts and avoid the two disks competing for use of the same IDE Channel.  Was that a bad decision?
     
    Sonic
    post edited by SonicExplorer - 2018/04/10 04:13:46
    #30
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