Need controller help

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b rock
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/16 12:24:38 (permalink)
Sonar's MMC is somewhat documented...some of these features should be fixable.
That's a pretty good resource. The help file in Sonar (at least in versions earlier than Sonar6) also had some good info.
Here's another link to add to the collection.

FWIW: I ended up remapping the main MMC-type controls to NRPNs to maintain compatibility across every host app. As one example, Project5 doesn't currently support MMC or sysex of any kind. Hopefully, that's about to change with ACT and control surface support. And yet, some hardware destinations will only react to MMC transport commands.

The solution was to create parallel templates, and in some cases, a parallel set of programmable switches dedicated to MMC. I set the states appropriately, changed the transmitted message to Sysex, and 'hand-coded' the correct data values into them from the MMC standard. It's not automatic, but a small enough task, and the problem was solved from that point onward.
#31
Nick P
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/16 22:45:43 (permalink)
BillW - thanks for the real comprehensive review. It's the Edirol that aint ready for primetime, I assure you that. In fact, "F" the Edirol.

Michele - 2 keyboard controllers will suffice, 1 for piano-type parts (88 key weighted) and one for synth-type parts and controlling (49 or 61 notes). With all respect to Mr. Brockway, he is from a solar system where humans have 72 hour days. The rest of us would be overwhelmed with the multi-tasking he so effortlessly engages in. Dispense with the 4 25-note controllers for now. In fact, don't even worry about the 88 right now. Just get your system working with one controller. That's a big enough task.

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#32
Viamichael
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/17 14:23:13 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
Michele - 2 keyboard controllers will suffice, 1 for piano-type parts (88 key weighted) and one for synth-type parts and controlling (49 or 61 notes). With all respect to Mr. Brockway, he is from a solar system where humans have 72 hour days. The rest of us would be overwhelmed with the multi-tasking he so effortlessly engages in. Dispense with the 4 25-note controllers for now. In fact, don't even worry about the 88 right now. Just get your system working with one controller. That's a big enough task.

I have to tell you, some of the people on this forum are so technically skilled that I get tempted to scrub the whole home recording thing. I always thought of myself as a bit of a gearhead with guitars, but the whole midi thing has been and probably will always be a tough nut to crack. I assume I just don't have enough interest in it and not enough technical genes.

I think I am going to pick up one the Casio Preiva pianos. I really like their action. As I was playing the keyboards at a music store I was stunned that the Casio was that good. I will then look into either a 49 key controller or the Finger Trigger. Am I correct in thinking that it can give me enough control with Sonar 6 and Dim Pro?
M.
#33
BillW
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/17 14:29:48 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
BillW - thanks for the real comprehensive review. It's the Edirol that aint ready for primetime, I assure you that. In fact, "F" the Edirol.


I had a major breakthrough this morning with the PCR. The first controller map (0 - DYNAMIC MAPPING 0) seems to be a much better match for Sonar. I have been working in the studio all morning and suddenly realized that the rewind feature (L1) was still working. Then I realized I had left it on controller map 0. Not only do the transport buttons keep working there, but I was able to assign "save" to pad A1 and "undo" to pad B1...and they work perfectly. I feel a little silly for not having discovered this before (especially since I've been sharing everything in this thread), but better late than never I guess.

I'm quickly revising my opinion of the PCR-800. I haven't had any more lockups since the day it arrived. I have been bouncing back and forth between the PCR and the S90ES (as a Mackie control surface) and things have been working seemlessly.

I wouldn't conclude that the Edirol isn't ready for prime time yet...other than the quirky keyboard (which I'm getting used to) and the pads (which aren't the best for drums), it is starting to look like a winner!!




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#34
wgcabp
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/18 00:42:56 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Michele
I have to tell you, some of the people on this forum are so technically skilled that I get tempted to scrub the whole home recording thing. I always thought of myself as a bit of a gearhead with guitars, but the whole midi thing has been and probably will always be a tough nut to crack. I assume I just don't have enough interest in it and not enough technical genes.

No one will live long enough to know half as much as B Rock knows about this stuff. So with all due respect to the other posters, when B tells you a technical solution...listen. It's the last word. Really. I know him very well and he would not tell you a solution if he really didn't think it was the right solution. And...if you think you know something about guitars, he can make you feel pretty small in that area as well. So really, I could really care less what any less experienced posters have to say. B's answer will always be the right answer.

I think I am going to pick up one the Casio Preiva pianos. I really like their action. As I was playing the keyboards at a music store I was stunned that the Casio was that good. I will then look into either a 49 key controller or the Finger Trigger. Am I correct in thinking that it can give me enough control with Sonar 6 and Dim Pro?

You appear to be a real keyboard player that really cares about action and feel. Since that is the case, get something that feels good to you that has a MIDI out. Plug it in, play, be happy. This is your "piano"...you're main input controller for musical things. Right?

Then for other controllers, you want something with knobs and widgets and doodads, right? So find a smaller controller. It doesn't have to be a four octave controller, because you already have your "main" controller, right? You mainly want the knobs and widgets and doodads. So, get one that has lots of knobs and widgets and doodads and get used to using MIDI learn. If you want drum pads as well, then get one with drum pads and knobs and widgets and doodads and get used to using MIDI learn.

So now you have an 88-key controller that has great "feel", then a smaller controller mainly for controlling MIDI parameters and a drum pad controller, I can't see how you could possibly not have enough control at your fingertips to do anything you could want to do with Sonar and any softsynth that you run across. This is the philosophy that B was trying to get across. Use several smaller instruments and dedicate them to doing what they do well.

If you think it will work out of the box with ACT as if by magic, then you are more than welcome to think that if you like. A more practical approach would be to realize that each of the controllers will work with ACT if you spend enough time with them and go through the hassles of setting them up, which is being chronicled very well by BillW.

We've been talking about this stuff for years. A search will reveal many controller threads that all of us old-timers have hashed out many, many times.

Will
#35
Nick P
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RE: Need controller help 2007/03/18 05:30:21 (permalink)
Okay, un-"F" the Edirol. Continued thanks, BillW. I'm going to save this thread in case I get an Edirol, it will augment the manual.

Here's the thing about B Rock. He's a monster synth/P5 expert. But...he's not always the most clear writer. What he has yet to realize (IMO of course) is that his head operates at one level, but the rest of us operate at a much more simple level when it comes to all of this stuff.

A great example for B Rock, and I hope he takes this with the highest respect, since potentially he could be one of the great authors of Cakewalk technical training, is Scott Garrigus. When you get a "Sonar x Power" book, you get a very easy-to-read, step-by-step, begin-at-the-beginning resource. In other words highly edited and organized. Now in B's defense 1) He's not getting paid for his work (which he should be IMO), 2) He's contributing very targeted tutorials, many of which are by necessity at an advanced level.

Even though most of B's tutorials are way beyond my comprehension, I'm still really grateful for them, since at some point I hope to be at that skill level some day. In the meantime I hope Cakewalk (or Thompson) will contract with B-Rock, hook him up with an editor, and get some of that super-skill out in print!

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#36
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