Kev999
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 20:50:47
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The best non-gamer cards are made by Matrox. I would go for this one.
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A1MixMan
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 20:59:24
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Looks like that card only has 128 megs of ram and Seth says "What I'd look for is a card with 1gig of RAM at least"
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:14:17
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Matrox was great pre-2006. However, their cards don't support Aero for the most part, and they are very expensive.
FWIW the card that Kev linked to said on the bottom of the page that it only has 200 and XP drivers. Not much good in 2010, IMHO.
The big draw of their cards used to be that they supported three monitors per card. This was big in the days of AGP and when dual-head cards were a luxury. But now with PCIe and most cards supporting anywhere from 3-6 monitors per card, Matrox no longer has that edge.
Personally, I wouldn't purchase one of their cards these days.
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:17:43
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ducatibruce2
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Sven,
Yes, I would bet that upgrading your GPU will solve your issue. Again, you don't need a high-end card, just something with at least 1gig of RAM form the modern families of AMD or nVidia cards.
If possible, purchase from a store that allows returns in case your issue persists. Here in the States we have a chain called Fry's which absolutely rocks for this. 
Seth,
Does the 1Gig memory suggestion apply to XP32 (ie without Aero)?
Great question. I would say yes, although XP uses the GPU's memory differently than Vista/ 7. From what I understand, though, the GPU engine in X1 is there regardless of XP/ Vista/ 7. Quite frankly, though, I'm not sure if having 1gig of RAM would cause any harm in XP. It's been so long since I've used it for a DAW, my XP mind is kind of blank.
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:21:48
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Karyn
So if we're not going to see CUDA support in the near future, how long before get to use our GTX580 to display the console view in full photoreal 3D ( I mean real 3D) with audio clips floating by over the top like a shoal of fish in mid air?
(ok, maybe I need to log off and go to bed now...)
I'm not saying for sure that we won't ever delve into the CUDA waters. But I'm not saying it's on the docket, either. I understand how cool it looks on paper, but I think it's only fair to mention the downsides of DSP in a native system. Not to mention the extreme amount of power we have with each new rev by Intel and AMD. I guess if we had to choose between getting SONAR hooked up with CUDA somehow and and coding SONAR to take advantage of the latest stuff Intel is doing, like AVX, I'd choose the latter. Having said all that, being able to use one's GPU for video rendering would be awesome, although SONAR is not a video editing app like Vegas or Premier. And the 3d thing would be pretty cool, too, as long as it didn't require glasses and would work with a Kinect-type system a la Minority Report. 
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djtrailmixxx
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:22:05
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:30:38
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A1MixMan
djtrailmixxx
I reccomend this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102882
NVIDIA drivers are responsible for the majority of BSODs in Windows since Vista and now Win 7
How do you know this? Is this a fact? Is there more info somewhere on this? I have NVIDIA 9600GT in Win7 do have some crashes now and then.
I'm not doubting your experiences with nVidia cards, but I use two 8400GS PCIe cards in my DAW and have never experienced a BSOD with them. These are what I have ... http://www.frys.com/produ...sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG Having said that, before I bought mine I did a bit of research and found out that a similar card with the same specs made by Zotac would frequently overheat and cause problems. People with the PNY card I ended up buying never had those issues, so I got them. It could be that troubles with nVidia are due to a specific manufacturers card as opposed to the driver.
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djtrailmixxx
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:31:20
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
ducatibruce2
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Sven,
Yes, I would bet that upgrading your GPU will solve your issue. Again, you don't need a high-end card, just something with at least 1gig of RAM form the modern families of AMD or nVidia cards.
If possible, purchase from a store that allows returns in case your issue persists. Here in the States we have a chain called Fry's which absolutely rocks for this.
Seth,
Does the 1Gig memory suggestion apply to XP32 (ie without Aero)?
Great question. I would say yes, although XP uses the GPU's memory differently than Vista/ 7. From what I understand, though, the GPU engine in X1 is there regardless of XP/ Vista/ 7.
Quite frankly, though, I'm not sure if having 1gig of RAM would cause any harm in XP. It's been so long since I've used it for a DAW, my XP mind is kind of blank.
Win XP 32bit will have to include the one gig of video ram into its total memory footprint (4 GB limit). So, if you have 4 gig of system ram, the bios/OS will end up excluding the one gig from available system ram. POSSIBLY an issue, most likely not. Thats the thing with no system ram based memory like hard disk/DVD drive buffers, UAD card memory and of coarse video memory. With a 4 GB limit, the OS can only address the amount not taken by said devices. This is why when someone has 4GB of RAM installed on a 32 bit OS, they never see the whole 4GB if they actually look for it.
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:37:23
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Ah, ya, the whole shared memory fun of 32-bit living. If you;re still using XP then I'd say a video card with 512megs would probably suffice.
My Win7 system actually has two 512meg cards. One card powers a 27" 2048 x 1152 monitor while the other powers two 1280 x 1024 monitors. I've never had an issue with graphical related stuff on there on either monitor. X-Raying is smooth, moving windows, resizing stuff, etc.
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djtrailmixxx
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:41:49
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
A1MixMan
djtrailmixxx
I reccomend this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102882
NVIDIA drivers are responsible for the majority of BSODs in Windows since Vista and now Win 7
How do you know this? Is this a fact? Is there more info somewhere on this? I have NVIDIA 9600GT in Win7 do have some crashes now and then.
I'm not doubting your experiences with nVidia cards, but I use two 8400GS PCIe cards in my DAW and have never experienced a BSOD with them.
These are what I have ... http://www.frys.com/product/6105379?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Having said that, before I bought mine I did a bit of research and found out that a similar card with the same specs made by Zotac would frequently overheat and cause problems. People with the PNY card I ended up buying never had those issues, so I got them.
It could be that troubles with nVidia are due to a specific manufacturers card as opposed to the driver.
Driver issues come and go, everyone gets bitten. This is the only thing I could find, but I remember a few different and more recent reports that were not very favorable to NVIDIA: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/ . My initial reporting is of PERSONAL bias though. I havent used many NVIDIA cards since the 6800 days, and most recently, my onboard ATI video device on my work PC (Information tech nerd desktop) has issues with some flash content. Your mileage may vary. As Seth has said, for a dedicated DAW, get the card that meets your needs, price, whatever.
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:47:18
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I'll admit that for personal/ gaming use I am indeed an AMD fanboy. I actually have the same MoBo as you (love it) in my HTPC with a Phenom II X4 810 and a Sapphire HD4890 (can't wait till the 6890s drop). But for DAW use, I personally don't think it matters. It's all about what gets the job done. 
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Bub 
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:49:54
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Hi Seth, I did some digging and the PNY 8400 is discontinued. What do you think about this one http://www.newegg.com/Pro...400%20GS%20DMS%20512MB I'm a little worried because I have a 9500GT with only 512 and it can't be chained. I believe it's non-sli if I'm getting my terms correct.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 21:59:58
(permalink)
Bub, That looks exactly like my card except its made by ECS instead of PNY. While the 8400 series are not SLI compatible, it really doesn't matter. SLI, and AMD's Crossfire, essentially combine multiple cards to work as a single super-card. This is only beneficial when gaming, but has no effect on what we're doing with DAWs. Having said that, video cards do not need to be SLI or Crossfire ready to be used in multiples in a system. Take my DAW, for example. My two 8400GS cards are not linked in SLI, but work as separate, independent video cards. They show up in Windows as such and I can use all four of the monitor connections to separate monitors where in an SLI or Crossfire system, those are combined. At the end of the day, don't worry about SLI or Crossfire compatibility for DAW use. And don't get hung up on buying exactly what I am using. If there's a newer nVidia or ATI card that's fanless and has multiple digital outs, then I'd probably go for that.
post edited by Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk] - 2010/12/14 22:01:43
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Bub
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 22:18:16
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So I should be ok if I add a second 9500 GT do you think? It's cheap and has two DVI outputs on it, that would give me 1Gb total and 4 DVI outs if I'm thinking right.
I switched from PC gaming to a PS3 a long time ago so I'm really out of the loop on all the video card lingo and what's available.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 22:20:16
(permalink)
Bub,
If you want to add a third and/ or fourth monitor to your system, then yes, adding a second 9500GT will be the way to go for you. But if you want to improve the performance of your video card and not add more monitors then adding a second card won't do anything. You'd need a new card.
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Bub
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 23:41:56
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Ok, I'm 99% sure I got it now. I had in my mind that putting a second 512Mb card in would up me to 1Gb. I was focused in on the 1Gb factor.
btw ... I have a Galaxy Nvidia 9500GT. I've had it for a year and it was horrible. Aero kept turning on/off by itself, I would have screen artifacts, and other things. I was about ready to yank it out and return it to Newegg but figured I'd try updating the drivers one last time. Glad I did because it fixed every problem I was having. It seems Nvidia is just getting the Windows 7 bugs worked out.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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ducatibruce2
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/14 23:46:28
(permalink)
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
ducatibruce2
Seth,
Does the 1Gig memory suggestion apply to XP32 (ie without Aero)?
Great question. I would say yes, although XP uses the GPU's memory differently than Vista/ 7. From what I understand, though, the GPU engine in X1 is there regardless of XP/ Vista/ 7.
Quite frankly, though, I'm not sure if having 1gig of RAM would cause any harm in XP. It's been so long since I've used it for a DAW, my XP mind is kind of blank.
It was the system memory overhead, as mentioned by djtrailmixxx, that triggered the question. 2 x 8600GT each with 512Mb here - monitoring utils such as RivaTuner indicate Sonar X1 running across 3 screens with lots of colour & movement uses less than 0.25Mb of video card memory, using latest NVidia drivers, under XP. No emotional attachment to XP here, I'd be upgrading like a shot if only hardware manufacturers, such as Roland, released compatible drivers for some of their not so old gear ;)
S8.5.3PE & X1d P Exp & X2P, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3 With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle, Komplete8
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Kev999
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 01:58:33
(permalink)
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
Matrox was great pre-2006. However, their cards don't support Aero for the most part, and they are very expensive.
FWIW the card that Kev linked to said on the bottom of the page that it only has 200 and XP drivers. Not much good in 2010, IMHO.
The big draw of their cards used to be that they supported three monitors per card. This was big in the days of AGP and when dual-head cards were a luxury. But now with PCIe and most cards supporting anywhere from 3-6 monitors per card, Matrox no longer has that edge.
Personally, I wouldn't purchase one of their cards these days.
I guess that I am speaking from a pre-2006 perspective, being an XP user. I have been using a Matrox P650 128MB with dual monitors and it has worked great. I still say that Matrox cards give the best image quality and colour depth. Nvidia gaming cards have more up-to-date features, but are these features relevant when running Sonar?
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
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Freddie H
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 04:39:14
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Kev999
The best non-gamer cards are made by Matrox. I would go for this one.
Absolutely NO! WARNING! If you going to use Windows 7 you need NVIDIA or ATI! You need advance GPUs and a lot of Memory that take advantage of WINDOWS 7 platform on the graphic card. Matrox has non of that! All graphic that you display in Windows 7 or VISTA runs by the GPU, not CPU as it did on XP32. You can have all graphic set to MAX, best graphic, and it will not take rescorces from the CPU. If you disable AERO in Windows 7 and VISTA that "some" fools do, all graphic will run on the CPU again like the same behavior as XP32. DONT DO THAT!!!! In WINDOWS 8 they say that they will disable the OPTION of disable AERO. To many fools out there think they are smart running XP32 tweaks on WINDOWS 7...then later on they come and say it doesn't work right...  Also if you read the FINE PRINT that Noel have write, they already state that SONAR X1 and other products will come in a very near future with much more advance graphic then this first release of SONAR X1 "Skylight". This is just a start! I say: SWEET! http://www.cakewalk.com/FinePrint/ Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/15 04:51:25
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 04:59:11
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Karyn
So if we're not going to see CUDA support in the near future, how long before get to use our GTX580 to display the console view in full photoreal 3D ( I mean real 3D) with audio clips floating by over the top like a shoal of fish in mid air?
(ok, maybe I need to log off and go to bed now...)
I'm not saying for sure that we won't ever delve into the CUDA waters. But I'm not saying it's on the docket, either. I understand how cool it looks on paper, but I think it's only fair to mention the downsides of DSP in a native system.
Not to mention the extreme amount of power we have with each new rev by Intel and AMD. I guess if we had to choose between getting SONAR hooked up with CUDA somehow and and coding SONAR to take advantage of the latest stuff Intel is doing, like AVX, I'd choose the latter.
Having said all that, being able to use one's GPU for video rendering would be awesome, although SONAR is not a video editing app like Vegas or Premier.
And the 3d thing would be pretty cool, too, as long as it didn't require glasses and would work with a Kinect-type system a la Minority Report.
I'm more then happy that SONAR X1 take advange of AVX technology already. That's just awesome. So today it make even more strong reasons to buy INTEL processor. Who doesn't love and use INTEL already! AFAIK you can run both CUDA and AVX in same platform. The problem is that CUDA are a time vampire if going to get the programing "right" in SONAR X1. DSP coding you don't do in one day exactly. Anyway it would be cool if we had that too in SONAR! After all its Christmas and you can always wish Santa for anything, right! Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/15 05:03:49
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 05:16:50
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To rap it up without be a FANBOY!
You going to buy a new computer today? If you want the best-----> INTEL CPU + NVIDIA graphic card, INTEL SSD, Windows 7 x64 Second Best! If you want to support the freedom of Tech gear and don't want to give Intel and NVIDIA monopoly on the market. (I have friends that buy AMD and ATI just because of that)
Not bad but not the best, cheaper price too----------------> AMD CPU + ATI graphic card. Corsair SSD, Kingstone SSD or OC SSD Windows 7 x64 CPU check here---------> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html Graphic check here----> http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html SSD check here--------> http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/high_end_drives.html As you all can see, NVIDIA and INTEL run over AMD and ATI and back up twice and run over them again. The best AMD AMD Opteron 6176 SE processor on the market that cost multi $$$$ and are just for SERVERS "6 core" are almost 50% slower then normal INTEL I7 4 core. Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/15 05:31:34
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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SvenArne
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 05:21:18
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Thanks for all your help people! I'm thinking of going with this, mainly cause they have it at my local computer store and it's cheap (well, about $100, but stuff is pricier here than in the US). Any compatibility issues I should be aware of? Sven
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ducatibruce2
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 05:24:06
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Just wanted to reiterate that the OP is running WinXP at the moment.
S8.5.3PE & X1d P Exp & X2P, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3 With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle, Komplete8
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Freddie H
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 05:25:47
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SvenArne
Thanks for all your help people!
I'm thinking of going with this, mainly cause they have it at my local computer store and it's cheap (well, about $100, but stuff is pricier here than in the US).
Any compatibility issues I should be aware of?
Sven
Sven, think about the future go with this instead, almost cost the same are great, PhysX...no fan http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=589262
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/15 05:30:06
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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SvenArne
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 05:55:12
(permalink)
Thanks, if it serves me better in the long run, I suppose the extra money is worth it.
BTW, what does PCIe 2.0 and 2.1 mean? Does my mobo have to support 2.1 to use the card?
Sven
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SvenArne
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 06:02:30
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Arrrgh, it looks like my mobo (MSI p35 Platinum) doesn't support PCIe 2.0! I can't seem to find any PCIe 1.x cards anywhere!
Or am I misunderstanding this?
Sven
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Freddie H
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 06:12:44
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SvenArne
Arrrgh, it looks like my mobo (MSI p35 Platinum) doesn't support PCIe 2.0! I can't seem to find any PCIe 1.x cards anywhere!
Or am I misunderstanding this?
Sven
Sven, Don't worry about that! All PCIe cards 3.0, 2.1, 2.0 are backward compatibility to PCIe 1.0 so that's no problem. Just buy it and then install it and be happy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express The latest NVIDIA driver for all cards on the market included your card you can find here-----------> bookmark! http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/15 06:15:14
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Bub
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 11:49:27
(permalink)
Freddie H
You going to buy a new computer today?
If you want the best-----> INTEL CPU + NVIDIA graphic card, INTEL SSD, Windows 7 x64
Best Regards
Freddie
I'm not sold on SSD's yet. They seem to fail a lot quicker than traditional hard drives. Plus there is a lot of maintenance you have to do on the before and after you install them. They put them in all the laptops where my wife works and they are failing left and right.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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StarTekh
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 13:16:59
(permalink)
>> A yes Matrox... their runn is Over..
>> Asus Silent 8600gt 512.. is all the card.. 1 needs .jon
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...wicked
Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7360
- Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
- Location: Seattle
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Re:New graphics card to take advantage of new GPU support. Recommendations?
2010/12/15 14:17:24
(permalink)
What I think is gonna be more important is your actual monitors. I've got 2 17" running 1280x1024 and X1 is significantly more real-estate hungry than 8.5.3.
What's a little bit of a downer (and perhaps some marketing-speak) is that there's no other software I use (Live, Vegas, Reaper, Sound Forge, etc) that is forcing me towards an upgrade path for my displays yet. If you factor in the "need" to upgrade displays, GPUs, and X1 itself we're talking a ton of dough. Granted that benefit gets to be shared by all other programs, but I wouldn't otherwise have been entertaining that upgrade right now.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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