Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here....

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pbognar
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 17:32:55 (permalink)
listen


pbognar


I'm in the same boat, however, I'm a musician, not a studio owner.
I wouldn't expect to hear any details on X1b prior to it's release, however, Seth did mention in a thread that there are "fixes" and "enhancements".
Personally, I'm at 8.5.3 and have not yet upgraded to X1, and will not, until I hear how things are in X1b.
In my mind, X1 doesn't exist for me until after X1b is released late Feb, or early March.
If I ran a studio and was running 8.5.3, I would have planned on waiting 4 - 6 months after X1 became stable before employing it to make a living.  I don't mean any disrespect, but I've read comments by other serious studio people using all different DAWs including Sonar, PT, Logic, Cubase, etc. who rarely jump on the latest upgrade of whatever software they are using until they have down time, and they are comfortable that the new release is stable.
MHO.



Many got caught up in the hype (myself included) of the next big improved thing wanting to be the first to have it and using it.  We should have learned from experience not just from X1 - but with many of the musical tools that we use...
@listen:  Are you kidding me?  When a new version of something comes out, I become as obsessive as the next person.  But with this, there are a lot of things involved for me, including  moving to a standalone W7 machine, which will require that I buy a new audio interface.  I want to wait until things have become stable in the X1 world.  Thank goodness for everyone who bought X1, otherwise I wouldn't know when to jump in ;)


@Zyler:  Thanks for offering something to look forward to.


#31
jungfriend
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 17:34:47 (permalink)
Alex,
You say:
c) Anybody who thinks a competitors product is less buggy is probably mistaken. Regardless it's difficult to measure.

 
There's another issue that often seems to be disregarded, and that is the way people use the software. Different people have different methods of operation and different goals, not to mention different setups and equipment to help them achieve their goals. Another DAW might be more suited to the way some people work, and therefore they might not encounter so many bugs. It could even be that the equipment they use integrates better with one DAW or the other. I read today where a user tried the new beta version of Maschine in Sonar and got crashes, lost projects, and Microsoft C++ errors. Just one example of a hardware/software mismatch that happens all too often.
 
So there are the problems that are in the software, operator errors, equipment mismatches, driver issues, operating system variations, and all of these take time to sort out. Then there have to be decisions made because it is impossible to be all things to all people. Some people are just not going to get the fixes and features they want. It might even be a coding situation where you want to put in a feature, but it would undermine the integrity of the software, or break other features.
 
Ultimately bug fixes have to be the most important aspect of any patch. People can change the way they work if they like most things about a DAW and it all works as advertised. Many of the feature requests I see are based on individual working preferences and making a repetitive task simpler. I'd rather have the software perform the functions properly, and I can adjust my methodology accordingly. I would have to do that anyway if I was to change DAWs.
 
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#32
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 17:38:45 (permalink)
When are "we" going to realize that bugs come up from the introduction of Sonars software to vastly different computer builds and configurations?

Craig DuBuc
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 19:33:47 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy



CAn you add making copy/paste more straight forward with less steps?


Not trying to get this thread OT but I've seen you comment before on cut/copy/paste and this is a genuine question. What do you find complicated about it? I simply highlight the area/clip(s) I want, cut/copy and then put the now time where I want it and paste. It works everytime for me.

If it were that simple I wouldn't be mentioning it.
#34
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 19:59:27 (permalink)
10Ten


FastBikerBoy



CAn you add making copy/paste more straight forward with less steps?


Not trying to get this thread OT but I've seen you comment before on cut/copy/paste and this is a genuine question. What do you find complicated about it? I simply highlight the area/clip(s) I want, cut/copy and then put the now time where I want it and paste. It works everytime for me.

If it were that simple I wouldn't be mentioning it.


Well it is that simple in my version of the program. I'm beginning to think there must be at least two versions out there in the ether. What happens when you copy & paste then?
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 20:04:24 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


10Ten


FastBikerBoy



CAn you add making copy/paste more straight forward with less steps?


Not trying to get this thread OT but I've seen you comment before on cut/copy/paste and this is a genuine question. What do you find complicated about it? I simply highlight the area/clip(s) I want, cut/copy and then put the now time where I want it and paste. It works everytime for me.

If it were that simple I wouldn't be mentioning it.


Well it is that simple in my version of the program. I'm beginning to think there must be at least two versions out there in the ether. What happens when you copy & paste then?


I've been through this many times an other users have confirmed it. When you become a Sonar developer, I'll bother going through it again with you.
#36
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 20:49:07 (permalink)
10Ten


I've been through this many times an other users have confirmed it. When you become a Sonar developer, I'll bother going through it again with you.

Oh come on 10Ten. If you don't want to discuss it or provide a link to your previous explanation, don't mention it on the forum, send an email to the Sonar developers.

CTRL-Drag works for me...

UnderTow


#37
thomasabarnes
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 20:53:00 (permalink)
10Ten,

I'm sure FBB is asking questions to see if the issue/s can be reproduced or if he or any of us can relate to your sharing that you're discontent with the copy/paste implementation in SONAR. I haven't seen any others post about copy/paste issues or express discontentment with SONAR's implementation of those features. Maybe they have and maybe you mentioned the details about your copy and paste issues or discontentment with it's functionality, but I haven't seen it except a long time ago, and I don't remember what exactly was your disapproval about it. You can, at least, direct us to the posts in which you say you went through this many times, otherwise, what's the point in posting here about the issues?

If you only want to share these issues with SONAR developers, the forum is not the place to do it, as it's not an official tech support platform and Cakewalk has mentioned in the forum TOS for users not to expect replies from them through the forum. Which makes your attitude of not wanting to share this with forum members nonsensible, and makes it irrelevant to even speak of these things on the forum.

On the other hand, the more you make your issues known to us forum users and we are able to reproduce any issues or relate to any discontentment you have, we can also submit bug reports or feature requests along with yourself, through official means, and, thereby, be a louder voice to have these concerns addressed by Cakewalk.

Please, go litely, man, we're just trying to help? :)
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/01/28 20:56:57


"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant.

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#38
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 20:55:41 (permalink)
thomasabarnes


10Ten,

I'm sure FBB is asking questions to see if the issue/s can be reproduced or if he or any of us can relate to your sharing that you're discontent with the copy/paste implementation in SONAR. I haven't seen any others post about copy/paste issues or express discontentment with SONAR's implementation of those features. Maybe they have and maybe you mentioned the details about your copy and paste issues or discontentment with it's functionality, but I haven't seen it except a long time ago, and I don't remember what exactly was your disapproval about it. You can, at least, direct us to the posts in which you say you went through this many times, otherwise, what's the point in posting here about the issues?

If you only want to share these issues with SONAR developers, the forum is not the place to do it, as it's not an official tech support platform and Cakewalk has mentioned in the forum TOS for users not to expect replies from them through the forum. Which make your attitude of not wanting to share this with forum members nonsensible, and makes it relevant to even speak of these things on the forum.

On the other hand, the more you make your issues known to us forum users and we are able to reproduce any issues or relate to any discontentment you have, we can also submit bug reports or feature requests along with yourself, through official means, and, thereby, be a louder voice to have these concerns addressed by Cakewalk.

Please, go litely, man, we're just trying to help? :)


Well, since you can't help I feel no need to repeat myself. Good luck with your newly self appointed moderator position though.
#39
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 21:45:23 (permalink)
All in all, I'm reasoanbly happy with the copy and paste except for one thing.   When you hit paste, a window shoudn't pop up.   Instead, it should just paste.   If you want something besides a normal paste, then you should use a paste special (ala excel etc).

Of course maybe most other people use all the fancy pasting, and so it makes sense for them.   but for me, I just want it to paste 99% of the time.


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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 21:53:00 (permalink)
Kroneborge


All in all, I'm reasoanbly happy with the copy and paste except for one thing.   When you hit paste, a window shoudn't pop up.   Instead, it should just paste.   If you want something besides a normal paste, then you should use a paste special (ala excel etc).

Of course maybe most other people use all the fancy pasting, and so it makes sense for them.   but for me, I just want it to paste 99% of the time.


That window is needed because Sonar's copy/paste system doesn't really work like it should.  If it was "fixed" I would turn the confirmation dialog off completely.
#41
rscain
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 21:59:00 (permalink)
But isn't that the purpose of the dialog window? So you can chose between a simple paste or a "special paste"?
I'm not trying to be a smart a*s, just trying to figure out if the dissatisfaction is with the function or the implementation of the function.
If it's the latter, well, they have to draw the line somewhere. They could allow us to make a choice of how we set it up, but at what point does customization cause such bloating that the whole thing becomes a nightmare just to set up?
Again, not trying to jerk anyone's chain, just trying to get my head around some of these issues.

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#42
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:11:07 (permalink)
rscain


But isn't that the purpose of the dialog window? So you can chose between a simple paste or a "special paste"?
I'm not trying to be a smart a*s, just trying to figure out if the dissatisfaction is with the function or the implementation of the function.
If it's the latter, well, they have to draw the line somewhere. They could allow us to make a choice of how we set it up, but at what point does customization cause such bloating that the whole thing becomes a nightmare just to set up?
Again, not trying to jerk anyone's chain, just trying to get my head around some of these issues.


I can't speak for anyone else, but 99% of my copy/paste operations are copying a clip and pasting it on the same track at a different spot on the time line. It would seem that something like that would be the default method, and it is with most other software, but Sonar  has to be different and require you to do several other steps. Then after you do manage to get the clip where you want, it doesn't remember what you did and you have to do it all over again. I suspect it's because they want you to do the same thing every time for consistencies sake, but it seems to be that simple C/P should be simple and if you want to something different should then take an extra step.
#43
rscain
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:36:35 (permalink)
Again, not trying to be difficult, but what other steps are required? I choose the clip, copy it, go to where I want it, and paste it. By other steps do you mean making the choices in the dialouge window between "paste" and "special paste"?
I'm asking because I kinda miss just hitting control-C then control-V instead of clicking the mouse, but the added option of "special paste" makes up for that so I consider it a wash. I gave up one function I was used to and used quite a bit for one that I think, in the long run, will make things easier for me.
Of course, that's just my opinion and yours is just as valid as it pertains to the way you work. That's why I'm asking.
As for SONAR not remembering these things I haven't seen that. If you are I really hope X1b solves your issues because I can see where that would be a major PITA.
post edited by rscain - 2011/01/28 22:39:41

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#44
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:45:08 (permalink)
rscain


Again, not trying to be difficult, but what other steps are required? I choose the clip, copy it, go to where I want it, and paste it. By other steps do you mean making the choices in the dialouge window between "paste" and "special paste"?
I'm asking because I kinda miss just hitting control-C then control-V instead of clicking the mouse, but the added option of "special paste" makes up for that so I consider it a wash. I gave up one function I was used to and used quite a bit for one that I think, in the long run, will make things easier for me.
Of course, that's just my opinion and yours is just as valid as it pertains to the way you work. That's why I'm asking.

Basically, I want to select a clip, hit control-C, hit a spot on the TV or time line and hit control-v. Then go to another clip and do the same thing and before you say that's how it works, it doesn't.
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:53:31 (permalink)
cally, I want to select a clip, hit control-C, hit a spot on the TV or time line and hit control-v. Then go to another clip and do the same thing and before you say that's how it works, it doesn't.

 Thats the way it works on this pc.
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:55:26 (permalink)
rabeach



cally, I want to select a clip, hit control-C, hit a spot on the TV or time line and hit control-v. Then go to another clip and do the same thing and before you say that's how it works, it doesn't.

 Thats the way it works on this pc.


Then you have a magical PC that changes the behavior of the software on it.
#47
rabeach
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:57:31 (permalink)
10Ten


rabeach



cally, I want to select a clip, hit control-C, hit a spot on the TV or time line and hit control-v. Then go to another clip and do the same thing and before you say that's how it works, it doesn't.

Thats the way it works on this pc.


Then you have a magical PC that changes the behavior of the software on it.


That would be cool. <g>
#48
rscain
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 22:58:53 (permalink)
No, it doesn't work that way anymore. And as I said in my previous post, I do miss that. But the way I see it (and this is just my opinion) the added functionality of "special paste" is an adequate trade off, because now instead of having to do the same operation 5 or 6 times or more for a recurring loop section I can get it done in one operation.
But that's just me. I have wondered why we can't have it both ways, but I'm not a coder so I can't answer that question. It is what it is and I can live with it.
I also miss the old way of archiving tracks, but I've already gotten used to the new way of doing it because that's the way it is now. But it took me a week or two to stop clicking the menu bar every time I wanted to archive or unarchive a track, and I spouted my fair share of cuss words while trying to remember where in the hell MSR was, LOL.
post edited by rscain - 2011/01/28 23:00:24

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#49
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:01:36 (permalink)
rscain


No, it doesn't work that way anymore. And as I said in my previous post, I do miss that. But the way I see it (and this is just my opinion) the added functionality of "special paste" is an adequate trade off, because now instead of having to do the same operation 5 or 6 times or more for a recurring loop section I can get in done in one operation.
But that's just me. I have wondered why we can't have it both ways, but I'm not a coder so I can't answer that question. It is what it is and I can live with it.
I also miss the old way of archiving tracks, but I've already gotten used to the new way of doing it because that's the way it is now. But it took me a week or two to stop clicking the menu bar every time I wanted to archive or unarchive a track, and I spouted my fair share of cuss words while trying to remember where in the hell MSR was, LOL.


I really didn't want to know that there was another 4 or 5 things screwed up in X1. I had to quit using it after about 5 minutes when I found out that a couple of things I use all of the time didn't work so I missed out on wonderful stuff like this. WTH did archiving go?
#50
rabeach
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:06:15 (permalink)
No, it doesn't work that way anymore.

ctrl+c and ctrl+v work here. So what am I missing.
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:09:06 (permalink)
rabeach



No, it doesn't work that way anymore.

ctrl+c and ctrl+v work here. So what am I missing.


Everything.
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:09:38 (permalink)
Ok I tried to copy and paste using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method,  and I have to report that in my experience using this method, it doesn't work consistently all the time. Sometimes the dialog box comes up to confirm, and some times it doesn't. Also, sometime the paste is placed into the wrong track.

I think 10Ten wants to use this keyboard method (of Cntrl C/Cntrl V), and what I wrote above is what I see when I tried that method.

However, I don't use that method, but I acknowledge that he does have a point when he says copy/paste doesn't always work correctly when using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method.

I use the method of right-clicking on the clip and using the edit menu which pops up to browse to copy, then go to the track and measure I want to paste and right-click and use the menu that opos up to browse to paste. This method always works consistently for me and places the paste of the clip where I want it to go.
 
EDIT:
 
Oh yeah, I used SONAR X1 x64 for the test.

post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/01/28 23:16:19


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#53
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:14:32 (permalink)
thomasabarnes


Ok I tried to copy and paste using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method,  and I have to report that in my experience using this method, it doesn't work consistently all the time. Sometimes the dialog box comes up to confirm, and some times it doesn't. Also, sometime the paste is placed into the wrong track.

I think 10Ten wants to use this keyboard method (of Cntrl C/Cntrl V), and what I wrote above is what I see when I tried that method.

However, I don't use that method, but I acknowledge that he does have a point when he says copy/paste doesn't always work correctly when using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method.

I use the method of right-clicking on the clip and using the edit menu which pops up to browse to copy, the go to the trak and measure I want to paste and right-click and use the menu that opos up to browse to paste. This method always works consistent for me and places the paste the clip where I want it to go.


It doesn't matter how you do the actual copy and paste it is inconsistent in any case. My point is that Cake has made a very simple thing that should take a couple of actions take 5 or 6. It makes no sense. This is before even starting to comment on the fact that Sonar likes to forget what is on the clipboard.
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:16:30 (permalink)
Ok I tried to copy and paste using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method, and I have to report that in my experience using this method, it doesn't work consistently all the time.

I tried it ten times and it worked every time. I don't think 10Ten's attitude warrants anymore testing from me. <g>
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:18:33 (permalink)
rabeach



Ok I tried to copy and paste using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method, and I have to report that in my experience using this method, it doesn't work consistently all the time.

I tried it ten times and it worked every time. I don't think 10Ten's attitude warrants anymore testing from me. <g>


It would hurt my feelings more if I had actually asked for your help.
#56
trimph1
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:20:47 (permalink)
What has me wondering is why it is not remembering what is on the clipboard...that is very odd behaviour.  

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
#57
Guest
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:22:13 (permalink)
trimph1


What has me wondering is why it is not remembering what is on the clipboard...that is very odd behaviour.  


It is extremely annoying. I copy, paste, paste, paste, try to paste.... argggghhhh! Copy, paste, try to paste....
#58
rabeach
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:22:39 (permalink)
10Ten


rabeach



Ok I tried to copy and paste using the Cntrl C/Cntrl V method, and I have to report that in my experience using this method, it doesn't work consistently all the time.

I tried it ten times and it worked every time. I don't think 10Ten's attitude warrants anymore testing from me. <g>


It would hurt my feelings more if I had actually asked for your help.

That's just weird.
#59
rscain
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Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 23:22:58 (permalink)
To archive now you highlight a track, right click on it, and scroll to "MSR", then check "Archive".
It's just as intuitive to me now as the old way was, but it did take me a while to find it (this was before the complete manual was available) and it took me a while to get used to it.

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#60
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