Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here....

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Katie_Katie
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2011/01/28 09:28:12 (permalink)

Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here....

Noel, Seth and Brandon:
While “lurking” this forum with my morning coffee, I noted the number of post by you.  Impressive. 
 
I have exhibited both apologist and critic traits in my previous posts – In one of my previous posted I stated that if Cakewalk did not take note of the information provided in this forum then I would consider them managerially inept.  You have obviously countered that statement.
 
Today I am just frustrated.  So this is a frustration post. 
 
But before I get to that, I want to thank you for being here, meaning that you take the time to read and post interesting and helpful information.  I also noted that you both have posted assertive replies when needed (my opinion) to some seemingly inane accusations, titles and posts. 
I don’t recall many user forums where the management actually posts.  They open themselves up to a lot of aggravation – and they know that going in.  It takes some mettle to do that.  Bravo.
 
Ok, the frustration part of my post.
I also noted, while lurking, the numerous inferences to items in the next patch such as , “That is in X1b”, or “Well, I talked to xyz and they said it is in the next patch”, and other similar inclusion statements for the next release.
 
So, here is my request based on my frustration.
 
Are you open to providing a list of fixes planned for X1b?  
or
Are you open to providing a list of known problems?   
 
It’s that simple – just a list.  I would be much less frustrated to know that whatever glitch or non-function I encounter is being addressed or known.  Yes, I could go through the multitude of posts and cull some of the things, but not as easily as you nor as accurate. 
 
Perhaps it is a corporate no-no for you to do so.  If that is the case, well, I’ll just deal with that.  But, at least I asked.
Thanks for your time.
post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/28 09:38:59

Katherine  

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    listen
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 10:44:36 (permalink)
    Katie_Katie


    Noel, Seth and Brandon:
    While “lurking” this forum with my morning coffee, I noted the number of post by you.  Impressive. 
     
    I have exhibited both apologist and critic traits in my previous posts – In one of my previous posted I stated that if Cakewalk did not take note of the information provided in this forum then I would consider them managerially inept.  You have obviously countered that statement.
     
    Today I am just frustrated.  So this is a frustration post. 
     
    But before I get to that, I want to thank you for being here, meaning that you take the time to read and post interesting and helpful information.  I also noted that you both have posted assertive replies when needed (my opinion) to some seemingly inane accusations, titles and posts. 
    I don’t recall many user forums where the management actually posts.  They open themselves up to a lot of aggravation – and they know that going in.  It takes some mettle to do that.  Bravo.
     
    Ok, the frustration part of my post.
    I also noted, while lurking, the numerous inferences to items in the next patch such as , “That is in X1b”, or “Well, I talked to xyz and they said it is in the next patch”, and other similar inclusion statements for the next release.
     
    So, here is my request based on my frustration.
     
    Are you open to providing a list of fixes planned for X1b?  
    or
    Are you open to providing a list of known problems?   
     
    It’s that simple – just a list.  I would be much less frustrated to know that whatever glitch or non-function I encounter is being addressed or known.  Yes, I could go through the multitude of posts and cull some of the things, but not as easily as you nor as accurate. 
     
    Perhaps it is a corporate no-no for you to do so.  If that is the case, well, I’ll just deal with that.  But, at least I asked.
    Thanks for your time.


    Cool  inquiry and tastefully presented

    - Listen -
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    #2
    Grumbleweed_
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 10:48:10 (permalink)
    I can't see this happening at all.  
    If they declare all that is wrong at the moment then the "Cakewalk sold us a pup" threads will start (again) and if they state a problem will be patched, and it isn't, then all hell will break loose. 

    Grum.

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    #3
    Guitarmech111
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 10:58:32 (permalink)
    yeah, that bug/issue request is a NIYL moment.

    X1 should have had more time to breathe before putting all of the features in production. There should have been 2 major releases with a discount on the upgrade to deal with the issues as a public beta tester. I trusted that X1 would work as well as 8.5, but I feel I got burned... Demos should be released before the main product. That would have made me feel a lot better about my decision to purchase the X1 upgrade. 

    I would rather see some fixes for 8.5 and an effort on Roland's part to setup some tracing help to determine the issues. Most of our PCs are fast anough to cary a few more cycles of the CPU for tracing code.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
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    #4
    Katie_Katie
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 11:20:14 (permalink)
    "yeah, that bug/issue request is a NIYL moment."
     
    [laugh]
     
    Yeah, you may be correct in that my request is a bit blue sky.
     
    However, some feedback would be interesting.  For instance. My company use SMAART and as good as that product is, it has issues.  They have a developers blog.  It is not updated that frequently but it does give some insight to the things that are being addressed.  Feedback is a good thing.  Especially where I don't have to read/review and cull the information from hundred of posts.
    post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/28 11:41:06

    Katherine  

    #5
    pbognar
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 11:22:02 (permalink)
    I'm in the same boat, however, I'm a musician, not a studio owner.
    I wouldn't expect to hear any details on X1b prior to it's release, however, Seth did mention in a thread that there are "fixes" and "enhancements".
    Personally, I'm at 8.5.3 and have not yet upgraded to X1, and will not, until I hear how things are in X1b.
    In my mind, X1 doesn't exist for me until after X1b is released late Feb, or early March.
    If I ran a studio and was running 8.5.3, I would have planned on waiting 4 - 6 months after X1 became stable before employing it to make a living.  I don't mean any disrespect, but I've read comments by other serious studio people using all different DAWs including Sonar, PT, Logic, Cubase, etc. who rarely jump on the latest upgrade of whatever software they are using until they have down time, and they are comfortable that the new release is stable.
    MHO.

    post edited by pbognar - 2011/01/28 11:23:54
    #6
    Middleman
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 11:32:30 (permalink)
    The items that are corrected generally come in the readme file with each version that Cakewalk publishes. They have never published a bug list. I certainly wouldn't given that the competitors are sure to use this against them.

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    #7
    siris1977
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 11:48:41 (permalink)
    i'm guessing the buglist  or list of what is addressed will be ni the read me files wen you d/l X1b.

     
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    #8
    Katie_Katie
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 11:53:05 (permalink)
    Middleman


    "...They have never published a bug list. I certainly wouldn't given that the competitors are sure to use this against them."
    Ok.  I can understand that.  This post has been on the board for over 2 hours.  They have posted in other threads during that time and I will assume they have read this one.  At least they could reply with a "No". 
     
    Or they could write, "Katherine, we reject your concept of reality and substitute our own".  Or another type of rejection notice.  
     
    I can take it...I'm a mom 
    post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/28 11:54:16

    Katherine  

    #9
    vespesian
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 12:41:08 (permalink)
    How about a "known issues" list as a sticky, in the forum, instead of using the b-word. Fxpansion does it. Helps to assure the customer that management 'gets' it.

    You're in an amazing state.

    So stay there.
     

     
    #10
    rainmaker1011
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 13:11:49 (permalink)
    maybe we, the community, could create and maintain our own list of known-bugs. on a separate web page.

    one simple DB and UI for inserting and editing states of the bugs.

    and the outcome would be one table showing all the reported bugs to CW with corresponding CWRBN, date of submitting, current status and a stats showing how many users could reproduce the issue or not. 



    Best Regards,  
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    Guitarmech111
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:00:09 (permalink)
    vespesian


    How about a "known issues" list as a sticky, in the forum, instead of using the b-word. Fxpansion does it. Helps to assure the customer that management 'gets' it.


    Excellent suggestion - could provide workarounds too if any exist.

    Peace,
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    Joyful Noise Productions
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    Kroneborge
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:03:45 (permalink)
    agreed, great idea.


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    #13
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:44:19 (permalink)


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    UnderTow
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:47:06 (permalink)
    Katie_Katie


    "yeah, that bug/issue request is a NIYL moment."
     
    [laugh]
     
    Yeah, you may be correct in that my request is a bit blue sky.
     
    Not really. The competition does it. Here is an example of an unsolved issue:

    http://avid.custkb.com/av...=1078&Hilite=audio

    And here is an example of one that is solved:

    http://avid.custkb.com/av...olved+in+coming+update

    UnderTow

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    chuckebaby
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:50:47 (permalink)
    i too was very impressed to see brandon a few noghts earlier an seth and noel yesterday.as far as us compiling a list tell me where to go and im there
    #16
    Zyler Vega [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 14:57:54 (permalink)
    Hi Katie (and everyone!),
     
    First let me introduce myself:  My name is Zyler and I'm the Product Manager for X1b.
    I also worked on X1 and the X1a patch.
     
    Thanks for your post - I understand that you and many other users are anxiously awaiting the next patch and I want you to understand that some of us are definitely listening (well, reading) and have been hard at work on X1b.
     
    In many ways SONAR X1 was a major upgrade from 8.5 and with it came new issues.  The X1a patch addressed many of these issues as soon as possible, but with X1b we have had the time to listen to our customers - from these forums, problem reports, Customer and Technical Support calls, distributors, etc.  We want every type of user to have a good experience with SONAR and ultimately find themselves able to make music without roadblocks.
     
    I'll soon be starting a new thread for X1b information, but in the meanwhile I can say that we have been spending a lot of time on things like AudioSnap, Snap Settings, V-Vocal, Surround Sound, Console View Narrow Strips, and many smaller or unrelated issues.
     
    I hope this helps!
    And keep an eye on the stickies section of the forum, that’s where I’ll drop the X1b thread.
     
    Best,
    -z

    Zyler Vega 
    Quality Assurance Engineer
     
    DSP Beta Administrator 
    Cakewalk, Inc.


    #17
    Jesse G
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:02:28 (permalink)
    Cakewalk has always provided a list of the fixes, but the list was for the items that they fixed!  It wouldn't make sense to list an item to be fixed and the fix didn't make it to production because of a dealy or something.  

    How about letting them fix the bugs and release whatever update they have when FEB/March Xb release is due.  

    OH by the way, in case you didn't know, The realease date is for Xb is FEB/ March  so relax and be patient.  You can always use X1 in its current state or if you have an ealier version, go back to Sonar 8.53 or earlier until X1 (Xb) is ready.

    I went back to Sonar 8.53 and all is fine.  When Xb is released, I will go back to Sonar X1 and beging working with it again.

    Peace

    Peace,
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    #18
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:04:01 (permalink)
    Thanks Zyler.

    I've been enjoying your avatar.

    Is that laptop your primary instrument?

    :-)

    It's a great photo on many different levels. Color, composition, thematic content etc.

    best regards,
    mike


    #19
    AT
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:05:40 (permalink)
    Thanks for the update (pun intended), Zyler.

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    #20
    Zyler Vega [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:14:20 (permalink)
    Thanks Mike (:

    It's something I hacked together - that's not me in the pic, but I do occasionally play out using a laptop (maybe not with that much crowd enthusiasm ;).

    I grab 2-4 source images and do hue shifts, overlays, and other simple edits to make a composite for avatars and such.  My current one is just two images (detroit + laptop performer). 



    Zyler Vega 
    Quality Assurance Engineer
     
    DSP Beta Administrator 
    Cakewalk, Inc.


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    ba_midi
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:23:11 (permalink)
    Zyler Vega [Cakewalk
    ]

    Hi Katie (and everyone!),

    First let me introduce myself:  My name is Zyler and I'm the Product Manager for X1b.
    I also worked on X1 and the X1a patch.

    Thanks for your post - I understand that you and many other users are anxiously awaiting the next patch and I want you to understand that some of us are definitely listening (well, reading) and have been hard at work on X1b.

    In many ways SONAR X1 was a major upgrade from 8.5 and with it came new issues.  The X1a patch addressed many of these issues as soon as possible, but with X1b we have had the time to listen to our customers - from these forums, problem reports, Customer and Technical Support calls, distributors, etc.  We want every type of user to have a good experience with SONAR and ultimately find themselves able to make music without roadblocks.

    I'll soon be starting a new thread for X1b information, but in the meanwhile I can say that we have been spending a lot of time on things like AudioSnap, Snap Settings, V-Vocal, Surround Sound, Console View Narrow Strips, and many smaller or unrelated issues.

    I hope this helps!
    And keep an eye on the stickies section of the forum, that’s where I’ll drop the X1b thread.

    Best,
    -z

    Zyler,
     
    THANK You for this Information!
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    #22
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:26:47 (permalink)
    Zyler,
     
    THANK You for this Information!


    +1. It's good to know that CW are listening. A bit like being in trouble, but knowing help is on the way.
    #23
    Guest
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:33:25 (permalink)
    Zyler Vega [Cakewalk
    ]

    Hi Katie (and everyone!),

    First let me introduce myself:  My name is Zyler and I'm the Product Manager for X1b.
    I also worked on X1 and the X1a patch.

    Thanks for your post - I understand that you and many other users are anxiously awaiting the next patch and I want you to understand that some of us are definitely listening (well, reading) and have been hard at work on X1b.

    In many ways SONAR X1 was a major upgrade from 8.5 and with it came new issues.  The X1a patch addressed many of these issues as soon as possible, but with X1b we have had the time to listen to our customers - from these forums, problem reports, Customer and Technical Support calls, distributors, etc.  We want every type of user to have a good experience with SONAR and ultimately find themselves able to make music without roadblocks.

    I'll soon be starting a new thread for X1b information, but in the meanwhile I can say that we have been spending a lot of time on things like AudioSnap, Snap Settings, V-Vocal, Surround Sound, Console View Narrow Strips, and many smaller or unrelated issues.

    I hope this helps!
    And keep an eye on the stickies section of the forum, that’s where I’ll drop the X1b thread.

    Best,
    -z


    CAn you add making copy/paste more straight forward with less steps?
    #24
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 15:44:49 (permalink)
    CAn you add making copy/paste more straight forward with less steps?


    Not trying to get this thread OT but I've seen you comment before on cut/copy/paste and this is a genuine question. What do you find complicated about it? I simply highlight the area/clip(s) I want, cut/copy and then put the now time where I want it and paste. It works everytime for me.
    #25
    Splat
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 16:13:37 (permalink)
    Great thread!

    I just want to repeat what I've said in earlier thread. It would be great to have a tabular list of known bugs, ideally a roadmap for when they get fixed (but I do understand sometimes fixes get left out for good reasons).... not just a list of bugs that will be fixed for 1b.

    I disagree about what people say about hiding known issues away (for internal use only).... it actually works in quite the reverse way.

    a) People will have nothing to complain about when it comes to an outstanding bug, if they do you simply refer them to the "x outstanding bug" which will be fixed in "y release". The conversation goes pretty quiet after that. At some stage the bug will have to be admitted anyway best get it out the way quickly.

    b) People will be contacting Cakewalk support less if they know an issue is "known". If support end up twiddling their thumbs (unlikely) they can get to help out QA.

    c) Anybody who thinks a competitors product is less buggy is probably mistaken. Regardless it's difficult to measure.

    d) Everybody knows there are always bugs in software, it's not a trade secret.

    e) The more open things are, the happier things will be, the more commited a customer will be with a brand.

    f) People should understand there is always limited resources in software development. In the end the discussion of fixing bugs should be more like a game of top trumps, rather than a game of who moans the longest.

    Anyway thanks for listening.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2011/01/28 16:15:52

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #26
    PeterMc
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 16:20:34 (permalink)
    There needs to be a way to filter out "user error" or RTFM problems. I think this would require intervention by Cake, rather than a user-driven model. Firefox seem to do it pretty well.

    Cheers, Peter.

    i5 6500, H170M, Intel HD 530, 16GB, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, Win 10 Pro (1803) (64 bit), Cakewalk by Bandlab

    #27
    listen
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 16:30:44 (permalink)
    pbognar


    I'm in the same boat, however, I'm a musician, not a studio owner.
    I wouldn't expect to hear any details on X1b prior to it's release, however, Seth did mention in a thread that there are "fixes" and "enhancements".
    Personally, I'm at 8.5.3 and have not yet upgraded to X1, and will not, until I hear how things are in X1b.
    In my mind, X1 doesn't exist for me until after X1b is released late Feb, or early March.
    If I ran a studio and was running 8.5.3, I would have planned on waiting 4 - 6 months after X1 became stable before employing it to make a living.  I don't mean any disrespect, but I've read comments by other serious studio people using all different DAWs including Sonar, PT, Logic, Cubase, etc. who rarely jump on the latest upgrade of whatever software they are using until they have down time, and they are comfortable that the new release is stable.
    MHO.



    Many got caught up in the hype (myself included) of the next big improved thing wanting to be the first to have it and using it.  We should have learned from experience not just from X1 - but with many of the musical tools that we use...

    - Listen -
    FOH Mixer & Recording Studio Manager
    Nothing but the grace of God - mggtg.



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    #28
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 16:41:07 (permalink)
    Katie,

    As Zyler mentioned above, once X1b is ready we'll have a full list of what was fixed. In the meantime we'll mention larger areas we've spent time on, but until the patch is baked we can't get too specific in what has been fixed.


    #29
    Katie_Katie
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    Re:Noel, Brandon and Seth....while you're here.... 2011/01/28 17:30:18 (permalink)
    ".... In the meantime we'll mention larger areas we've spent time on..."
     
    Wonderful.
     
    Thank you Seth (et.al.)
     

    Katherine  

    #30
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