Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30

Author
Rasure
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 584
  • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
  • Location: UK
  • Status: offline
2017/09/19 02:48:26 (permalink)

Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30

As title suggests, I went to normalize some vocal clips in a song I`m working on and it really messed up. Did this video test to show what I mean.
 
Steps to reproduce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tQxFQdXF4
 
*EDIT: (for reproduction)
For this test I simply opened a blank project, inserted an audio track then recorded some test vocals. *Crop recorded audio (not split just crop) after cropping, split them into clips, did some fades (although it makes no difference if you do that or not) selected them all to normalize and as you can see the results are in the video. 
 
post edited by Rasure - 2017/09/19 16:34:48

[ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
[16 Gig Ram]
[NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
[Windows 10 Pro x64]
[Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
[Studio One 4 Pro]
[Notion 6]
[Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
[Mackie Onyx 400f]
 
YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 03:03:19 (permalink)
    Yeh, that was pretty durn weird. I was unable to duplicate that behavior here, though.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #2
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 03:28:11 (permalink)
    Let's try a diagnostic. Make a copy of the project if it contains material you don't want to lose. Please bounce each clip to itself, try to normalize again, and report back with what happens. 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #3
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 03:36:59 (permalink)
    If you bounce the clips after splitting, but still keep them as separate clips its works as expected. It seems to be when you just split them, then normalize. Odd. 

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #4
    ccm
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 63
    • Joined: 2016/03/12 13:13:22
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 03:49:20 (permalink)
    This was reported here in 2016-  http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3512358
    Seems to be the same problem.
    #5
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 14:20:36 (permalink)
    Not just me then! :-)

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #6
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 15:09:15 (permalink)
    Rasure
    If you bounce the clips after splitting, but still keep them as separate clips its works as expected. It seems to be when you just split them, then normalize. Odd. 



    The clip is just a graphic representation of a piece of audio, not the audio itself. When you normalize a clip, it's pointing to the entire audio file containing that clip. So clips may be normalized to audio that you can't see. Bouncing the clip to itself makes it independent of the file from which it came.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #7
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 15:42:57 (permalink)
    Yeah I realise that, but it shouldn't mess with the audio, it randomly changes the order of the actual audio clips, as demonstrated in the video, not good. The only workaround is to bounce to individual clips after splitting, time consuming and unnecessary IMO.
     
    EDIT: Seems to happen on audio files that are cropped, if you do it on a file that`s directly imported, split in to sections then normalize, its fine. If you imported audio file, crop, then split in to sections and normalize, that`s where the issues happen.
     
    Steps to reproduce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tQxFQdXF4 
    post edited by Rasure - 2017/09/19 16:35:07

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #8
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 17:06:33 (permalink)
    I tested this by importing a 1000 Hz mono sine with a peak of -6 dB, and then duplicating it twice. I used Process -> Gain to lower the first clone to -7 dB, the second clone to -8 dB. I then selected all three and used Process -> Normalize to set them all to -3 dB, and then verified that they all do in fact now peak at -3 dB.
     
    I tried selecting them three ways: selecting the track, ctl-click on each clip, and dragging a selection box around them. How they were selected made no difference.
     
    I also tried normalizing to a lower peak, -10 dB, and that also worked as expected: all three clips peaked at -10 dB.
     
    I then split the clips to see if that made a difference, as described above. It didn't.
     
    I've run out of ways to test this. Whatever's going on here, it has to be data-specific. Want to send me a test project so I can try it on the same data?


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #9
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 17:20:38 (permalink)
    Thanks Bitflipper, uploaded new video for steps to reproduce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tQxFQdXF4 happens when you crop the clip after import then split and normalize. No issues when no cropping is involved on imported clips :-) 
     

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #10
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 17:36:34 (permalink)
    I was able to reproduce the behavior in the video, but I also think I've found a workaround to avoid having to bounce each clip. It worked every time for me, can you please try it and confirm.
     
    1. Crop the clip (beginning and end)
    2. Bounce the resulting clip to itself
    3. Apply trimming to the resulting clip
     
    Now if you separate it into multiple clips, select all of them, and then normalize, it works...or at least it did here.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #11
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 18:18:04 (permalink)
    I have posted this problem a several times over the last years.
    It happens when an audioclip is not one - or a part of an audiofile - but of 2 or more audiofiles.
    If you right-click on one of this clips and choose "associated audio files" it lists 2 or more files.
    Then this often happens.
    So bouncing to itself - to one audiofile - is the solution.
    But this should be repaired.

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #12
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 18:41:48 (permalink)
    Anderton
    I was able to reproduce the behavior in the video, but I also think I've found a workaround to avoid having to bounce each clip. It worked every time for me, can you please try it and confirm.
     
    1. Crop the clip (beginning and end)
    2. Bounce the resulting clip to itself
    3. Apply trimming to the resulting clip
     
    Now if you separate it into multiple clips, select all of them, and then normalize, it works...or at least it did here.


    Thanks, still not right though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHnIzz3onI it`s the cropping that does it.
     
    @THambrecht yes it should be fixed.

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #13
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/19 23:06:28 (permalink)
    Rasure
    Thanks, still not right though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHnIzz3onI it`s the cropping that does it.

     
    You didn't do step 3 to trim the clip (Clips > Apply Trimming).

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #14
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/20 14:23:57 (permalink)
    Yeah it works if you apply Trimming, still needs to be fixed :-)
     

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #15
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/20 14:36:33 (permalink)
    Well it's not going to get fixed within the next week, and if you follow my steps you don't have to bounce every clip individually...saves a lot of clicks.
     
    Has anyone submitted a bug report with recipe to reproduce, or do I need to do that?

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #16
    THambrecht
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 867
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 06:42:03
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/20 17:39:59 (permalink)
    My projects are all too big for Cakewalk to reproduce.
    I had the same problem today. Not only normalizing, rather "GAIN" is producing corrupt audiodata in the same situation. My project today has 46GB audiodata.
    I had submitted a bug report with pictures (a few years ago) - but with no project to reproduce. I had already a few situations, where "apply trimming" and bouncing to itself no more helps.
     
     

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
    4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

    4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

    (Germany)  http://www.hambrecht.de
    #17
    bitman
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4105
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:11:54
    • Location: Keystone Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/22 01:26:21 (permalink)
    Yeah that's an old one.
     
    #18
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/23 20:50:52 (permalink)
    Anderton
    Well it's not going to get fixed within the next week, and if you follow my steps you don't have to bounce every clip individually...saves a lot of clicks.
     
    Has anyone submitted a bug report with recipe to reproduce, or do I need to do that?


    I couldn't find the the page to submit to, maybe move this thread to the Problem reports forum? 

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #19
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/23 20:50:59 (permalink)
    Double post

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #20
    ampfixer
    Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5508
    • Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
    • Location: Ontario
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/24 02:33:30 (permalink)
    We don't have bug reports. They were eliminated when support was re-imagined.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #21
    scook
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 24146
    • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
    • Location: TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Normalize Bug Sonar Platinum V 23-08-0 Build 30 2017/09/24 03:04:44 (permalink)
    Open a tech support ticket
    #22
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1