Helpful ReplyNot happy with X3 Producer....

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M.G.
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2017/03/16 01:52:41 (permalink)

Not happy with X3 Producer....

Over the years I've owned five Cakewalk/Sonar DAW's (going all the way back to Guitar Tracks 2).  I really liked Sonar Home Studio 6 XL but (if memory serves) I had to upgrade to 8.5 Studio due to Windows 7.  I liked 8.5 a lot as well and recorded a lot of demos with it.  Then along came a nice upgrade price for X3 Producer (which seemed to have some great new features).  However, almost as soon as I downloaded/installed X3 I had to stop recording until now.  Which brings us to now...
 
I've tried X3 Producer... watched the tutorials... but I just don't like it as much as 8.5 (or 6 XL for that matter).  I was comfortable recording home demos and was very happy with the results.  I'm not sure that I want to tackle the X3 learning curve (it's been three years since I've recorded at all).  
 
My question is two-fold: first, can I load Sonar 8.5 Studio back on my computer while keeping X3?  And - if not - when I uninstall X3 can I keep some of the additional programs that installed with it (like Melodyne, Rapture 1.22, Addictive Drums and Dimension 1.5)?
 
Many thanks in advance!
 
M.G.
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Zargg
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 08:45:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2017/03/16 12:21:31
Hi. Yes. You can have all versions of SONAR installed side by side. It would be preferable to install from oldest to newest.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#2
chuckebaby
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 11:06:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:05:27
We all have our favorite versions. its human nature.
I believe Cakewalk realized this and that's why they decided to keep building off the X series rather than create a newer looking GUI like they did when they went from 8.5 to X1.
 
I personally like the X series more than 8.5 but I have heard other say the same as you. so its all good.
Ken is right, you can install them side by side.
Remember the key is investment. we need to invest time to learn new things. im sure you know what I mean. best wishes.

Chuck Jones 
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#3
BobF
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 12:23:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:05:48
What Zargg said.  Having them both will let you continue in 8.5 while you dabble with X3 until you're comfy enough with X3 to move.  Don't forget the (e) update for X3.

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 12:41:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:05:57
I happen to understand how the OP feels ..I went from SONAR 6 PE to X 3 PE ...
 
When I made that move or more correctly put " that gigantic of a jump in a SONAR upgrade " .....
I was like Whhhaaattt
 
 
I kept using 6 PE for a long while I sure enjoyed all the extra doodads  ..Addictive Drums , Rapture , B T ect...
As far as my 2 centavos goes , I would keep X 3 installed
How else would you be able to deal with the learning curve if and when you decide to tackle it ?
In my case I chipped away at the L C over a period of a couple of years ....
In addition to that , over time I found that there are a lot of excellent plugs, tools and features that were pretty much locked into X3  that couldn't be used in a former version of SONAR...
The Pro Chanel , the Blue Tubes Plugs , ARA / Melodyne  integration where you slide a monophonic audio track over to a midi track where ARA  will then convert the audio over to midi so you can use a VST synth to play the part..
3 Pro Chanel console emulations + all the integrated additional functions of having the ability to custom create your own Pro Chanel signal chains using the plugs that are available as Pro Chanel only plugs in the first place 
I can go on and on with this but I won't ...I'm not over here selling hoover vacuum cleaners door to door 
 
In my case "in retrospect "  , what helped me the most was I started hitting brick walls in what I was able to do in a Pre SONAR X 3 environment ...I had some very good 3rd party stuff , but I found a lot of things seemed disjointed with getting it all to work in a simple easy way ...
Eventually over a long period of time I started doing A B  comparisons of my music by bringing over mix's and stems , or even single tracks I had done in SONAR 6 over to X 3 ...
I found that worked pretty good as a way of cresting the learning curve
IMHO, between the heaver duty mastering grade quality plugs and added functionality that X 3 brought to the table I found that over time it was worth my time to bite the bullet and crest the learning curve ...
good luck OP ,
 
Kenny
 
 

                   
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#5
paulo
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 12:55:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:06:03
Nothing to stop you from still using 8.5. 
 
FYI I always preferred 8.5 to X-series and truth be told the only reason I eventually bought X3 pro as un upgrade from 8.53 was because I was considering buying melodyne and addictive drums anyway and then it was announced that they were going to be included in X3 pro, so it really became a no-brainer. (ok you have to upgrade melodyne to make it truly useful, but the upgrade price was reasonable, so I was basically getting x3 pro for nothing) Turns out that I don't use AD all that much, but the ARA melodyne integration was still worth the admission price on it's own IMO.
 
I still missed my old 8.5 dark UI console view that I had though and no amount of fiddling with the colour options available could get close to replicating that or anything equally pleasing to the eye and it annoyed me that CW had "improved" something by removing some functionality that I already had, but I persevered with X3 mainly because of melodyne.
 
Then came the latest incarnations and eventually (finally!) the dark UI that had been missing for so long IMO. I was still a bit annoyed at being asked to pay for something that I used to already have, so still I resisted, but then the lifetime update offer was veering an upgrade back into no-brainer territory so I finally upgraded. It remains to be seen how "worth it" that was, but I have my dark UI back so I'm happy enough and in fairness there are a few things like the auto-resizing fx bin in CV that are pretty cool too.
 
So, would I still go back to 8.5 if melodyne worked the same way in that ? No. I opened it up a while back for old times sake and have to say that colour scheme aside it all looked a bit clunky, crowded and "old" by comparison. That's not to say that new is always better, it isn't, but sometimes you forget how much things have moved on - I used to think that my first car was great, but I would be horrified if I had to drive such a thing now.Plat isn't by any means perfect, but I can see that it is better than 8.5 in many ways.
 
One further thing to consider is that the new pricing structure from May 1st will mean that you will no longer be able to pay an upgrade price from X3>current version, so as odd as it might seem to be upgrading something you  don't like for a new version of it, it's still worth considering or you will be back to paying full price if you decide to jump on a newer version in future. JRR shop has the best deals for this AFAIK.
 
 
 
 
#6
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 16:08:33 (permalink)
Thanks for all the replies and advice!  I 'll reinstall 8.5 and use that while checking out X3 more closely.
 
Kenny - it sounds like I won't be able to use the new plugins (Melodyne, Addictive Drums etc) in 8.5, even if they're installed with X3?  Maybe I'll do what you did and bounce tracks/mixes from 8.5 to X3 and back.
 
paulo - I will consider the X3 upgrade, thanks for the heads up!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 16:49:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:06:18
No, Melodyne certainly won't work with 8.5 as it uses the Region Fx which aren't a part of 8.5
 
You might be lucky with AD though you'll still have to activate it via the XLN website

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dwardzala
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 16:50:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:06:20
Melodyne and AD are VSTs that are not limited to the X series.  You should be able to use them in 8.5 (although I think Melodyne isn't integrated like it is in X3, i.e. you have to use it in standalone mode.)

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/16 19:53:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 01:06:24
M.G.
Thanks for all the replies and advice!  I 'll reinstall 8.5 and use that while checking out X3 more closely.
 
Kenny - it sounds like I won't be able to use the new plugins (Melodyne, Addictive Drums etc) in 8.5, even if they're installed with X3?  Maybe I'll do what you did and bounce tracks/mixes from 8.5 to X3 and back.
 
paulo - I will consider the X3 upgrade, thanks for the heads up!




All the is relates to what you may expect to find in 8.5 if you decided t reinstall it alongside your X3
 
Addictive Drums and most of the Cakewalk branded included synths and plugs should  work fine in 8.5
Off the top of my head The Blue tubes , True Pianos ,The Pro Chanel  type of stuff won't work ...
 
Melodyne is a separate install so you should be able to use it as if you were using it in a separate DAW  ...
I even took one of my Melodyne activation's and threw it on my i Mac ...
It's just not as integrated out side of SONAR as if it would be in X3 ..ARA is a big thing that was ahead of it's time
In X3 you can take a mono audio track and slide it over to a midi track and Melodyne will do an Audio to Midi conversion for you ...in my case that type of ARA integration was very important 
 
A cool thing is Cakewalk is pretty generous so a lot of the cool stuff shows up in other DAWs ...
A good deal of theses will show up in 8.5
There's some cool EQ's, Chanel Tools , Percussion Strip, Vocal Type Strip , and a bunch of other real nice things you may enjoy having access  to and using  .
 
I was pretty intimidated w the X3 GUI when I first started using it ...having some of this other stuff show up helped cut the edge ... it sort of motivated me to spend time learning the new X3  GUI ...now you couldn't pay me to go back
 
I know your dealing with X3 VS 8.5 now ..but ..Splat takes it up to a whole new level ...
I'm glad I paid my dues in X3 ...
good luck ,
 
Kenny
 
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2017/03/17 19:16:25

                   
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#10
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:20:09 (permalink)
Thanks again for everyone's help.  I installed 8.5 and it seems to be working OK (can play some old .cwp files I recorded).  Some programs seem to load but I'm not sure if they work (Add. Drums, Rapture). Dimension Pro works as does Vocal Strip, etc.  None of the Blue Tubes work - I get a message saying they're only licensed for X3 and above.
 
I can't get 8.5 to even recognize Melodyne... will I have to export a single track as a .wav file, import to Melodyne, modify and save the .wav file then import it back into 8.5?  
 
 
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#11
dwardzala
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:21:47 (permalink)
I believe that is the process if your host doesn't have ARA (8.5 doesn't).

Dave
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#12
scook
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:27:14 (permalink)
You may use Melodyne like you would any other wav editor adding it to the Tools section of the Utility menu. It is also possible to add the VST to the FX bin and use the transfer function in Melodyne to load the track into the plug-in.
 
Addictive Drums and Rapture are full retail versions; they will work in any DAW, just like DPro and Melodyne.
#13
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:32:31 (permalink)
scook - I'm not sure how to add it to Tools section of the Utility menu... would that be through the Menu Editor?
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scook
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:38:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/03/19 02:45:46
I wrote a tool to make the process a little easier. It is called SONARToolsEditor. A download link for it may be found in this post.  If you prefer, here are the instructions for directly editing the registry.
#15
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:45:45 (permalink)
Thanks I appreciate it!
 
#16
Brian Walton
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 02:54:06 (permalink)
It took me a few weeks to figure out my basic tasks when jumping from 8 to X3. However, once I got up to speed, I hope to never have to use 8 again.

I use Plat now which is basically a suped up X3. X3e is still a great platform. 8 just looks and feels dated.
#17
abacab
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 03:10:35 (permalink)
Brian Walton

I use Plat now which is basically a suped up X3. X3e is still a great platform. 8 just looks and feels dated.




LOL!  Even Project5 looks better than 8. 

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Cactus Music
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 03:13:45 (permalink)
I don't see why one couldn't save a project in 8.5,, open it in X3  save it and re open in 8.5. 
you'll get a nag screen warning about opening in an older version but it should still work. 
I still have 8.5 installed and if I get a chance I'll see what's up. 
 
But really, you should take the time to come up to date. The new stuff is miles ahead once you just get the hang of it. We all did this. I stayed with 8.5 for a long time but would never go back now. 
Example- Drag and drop an audio bass track to a midi track and bingo- a midi bass track. ( well not bingo,, but after 15 minutes or so of editing it works) 
My list of features I now use would make returning to even x3 hard. 

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#19
chuckebaby
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 14:37:10 (permalink)
while some habits die hard and old habits are hard to break, I believe Sonar 8.5 was made to run on Windows XP. That's a long time ago and even though it may work on Windows 7. Im not sure Melodyne will. Newer versions of Melodyne were never intended to be run on DAW's like 8.5. so if you run in to issues, you'll know why.
 
If you can find an older version of Melodyne you might be better off.
 
 

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#20
paulo
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 15:46:14 (permalink)
chuckebaby
while some habits die hard and old habits are hard to break, I believe Sonar 8.5 was made to run on Windows XP. That's a long time ago and even though it may work on Windows 7. Im not sure Melodyne will. Newer versions of Melodyne were never intended to be run on DAW's like 8.5. so if you run in to issues, you'll know why.
 
If you can find an older version of Melodyne you might be better off.
 
 




8.5 runs on my W7 and the Melodyne version as included with X3 pro also works fine in 8.5, you just have to insert it in the fx bin and record/transfer your audio into it the old way. Ctrl+M is way more elegant though, plus you have the ability to drag audio>midi too which is pretty cool.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 15:59:17 (permalink)
OK I opened Sonar 8.5. 
It will not open CWP from newer versions. It tries, but nothing happens. I even saved a pure midi file as a CWP and it would not open. It warns that it will be overwriting the file and information will be lost. Probably stuff like lenses settings. 
 
Not only that, I have not opened and poked around for a long long time. There is no way we could go back to that version now. We have advanced 10 fold. 

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#22
paulo
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 16:26:16 (permalink)
Cactus Music
OK I opened Sonar 8.5. 
It will not open CWP from newer versions. It tries, but nothing happens. I even saved a pure midi file as a CWP and it would not open. It warns that it will be overwriting the file and information will be lost. Probably stuff like lenses settings. 
 
Not only that, I have not opened and poked around for a long long time. There is no way we could go back to that version now. We have advanced 10 fold. 




I can open newer files in 8.5 in safe mode then click  "yes to all" and they will open. 
 
Not that I'm recommending this as the way to go, just saying that it does seem to be possible. Stick with one or the other and accept however that impacts on your workflow would be my advice. 
 
I agree that it would be hard to go back to 8.5 now.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 21:45:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/04/13 23:42:19
M.G.
Thanks again for everyone's help.  I installed 8.5 and it seems to be working OK (can play some old .cwp files I recorded).  Some programs seem to load but I'm not sure if they work (Add. Drums, Rapture). Dimension Pro works as does Vocal Strip, etc.  None of the Blue Tubes work - I get a message saying they're only licensed for X3 and above.
 
I can't get 8.5 to even recognize Melodyne... will I have to export a single track as a .wav file, import to Melodyne, modify and save the .wav file then import it back into 8.5?  
 
 
M.G.
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Yes ,  I did mention the Blue tubes were locked out .
You also have many other X3 plugs and instruments that you may be able to find a use for in SONAR 8 ...
 
The list is extensive and some of the plugs are miles ahead of what came with SONAR 8 ...
the only way you could have hit it back then with the quality of the X3 plugs was to drop some serious coin on 3 rd party
here's a Cakewalk link of what you have already from X3 PE
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Plug-ins.1.html
 
I would list all the plugs and stuff that I like and got w X3 that I use not only in SONAR , but in other DAW's
that would end up clogging up this post 
What I could tell you is this ...if it has TL -, LP-, PX-, TS-, VX-, as a prefix in front of it's name  it's top shelf ...
A few other very useful things  that I use all the time are Chanel Tools , Boost 11, Breverb,Tone2 Bi Filter 2.
BTW Session Drummer 3 is pretty nice ...as far as X3 VST instruments go only a few won't make the trip over to 8
 
Anyway , just so you know the reason why I am doing this .... I'm not looking to get on the soapbox , it's just that this is what it took for me ...
When I had gotten X 3 I hit a total brick wall ...I hated it at first and I couldn't do anything right ...
I suffered on my own with out asking for help for about a whole year ...
($uckey'est year of music I ever had, I had one foot in the past and the other foot in the uncertain future ) ..
I started a thread on how frustrated I had become and how much I hated it ..I kid you not when I say this ,
I think folks around here took me very seriously when I mentioned that I was gonna take my laptop w X3 out to the range and put 2 clips of 45 ACP into it
 
The main thing that changed everything for me is I asked for Help and people did help me ...
 
It's a real funny thing about asking for help ...most folks would rather go through a half a tank of gas driving around lost. When they have finally had enough running around in circles they will finally ask for help and then Bitcchh about the traffic
 
any way good luck , it was nice rapping w you ,
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good ,  SONAR SPlat .
Gibson R 8 Les Paul VOS , American Bulldog
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



#24
mettelus
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 21:50:54 (permalink)
Cactus Music
OK I opened Sonar 8.5. 
It will not open CWP from newer versions. It tries, but nothing happens. I even saved a pure midi file as a CWP and it would not open. It warns that it will be overwriting the file and information will be lost. Probably stuff like lenses settings. 
 
Not only that, I have not opened and poked around for a long long time. There is no way we could go back to that version now. We have advanced 10 fold. 


Noel mentioned a while back that cwps created when AUX tracks were brought into play are not backwards compatible (even previous Platinum versions).

ASUS P8P67 Pro (B3), i7-2600k, 32GB RAM, SSD and HDD, ASUS GTX-970 w/dual monitors, Win 7 x64U, Sonar Platinum, X3e, X2a, X1d x64, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#25
chuckebaby
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 22:33:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M.G. 2017/04/13 23:42:11
I felt a lot like Kenny did when X1 was released. I was excited for the new look but I was very frustrated about the learning curve. I wondered where my save button went, I wondered what this Skylight thing was. It was like working backwards. But the learning went by fast. I finished projects in 8.5 and learned X1 slowly by starting test projects. then moved on to real projects.
 
You tube is your best friend man. groove 3 is another great source for sonar videos.
I bought 2 of them and they changed everything for me. So I guess what im saying is pretty much what everyone else is. use 8.5 but learn X3 in the process but for C sake, don't give up on it. Someone told me something once and I have never forgot it.... "Technology wont wait for you, so don't let technology leave you behind, because If you do, your screwed".
So don't be left behind man  For all the hassles it might be, try using Melodyne in X3 with ARA integration/As a Region FX.
When it comes right down to it and when you put it into basics... There's a record button, faders, panning knobs and editing tools. A DAW is a DAW but some have more features and options than others and in this case, X3 over powers 8.5. What ever you do I wish you the best. Good luck man.

Chuck Jones 
The Elements Of Love
 
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#26
abacab
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/03/19 22:42:37 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
 
It's a real funny thing about asking for help ...most folks would rather go through a half a tank of gas driving around lost. When they have finally had enough running around in circles they will finally ask for help and then Bitcchh about the traffic
 



Now that there is an EXCELLENT point, LOL!!! 

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-09; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1607 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
#27
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/04/13 23:22:22 (permalink)
Thanks again for everyone's comments! Work has been hectic of late so I had to put recording on hold for a few weeks... I now have a long weekend, I will try to sort through X3 again (understanding that it will take longer than I originally thought).
 
Kenny and Chuck - it sounds like you both were in the same place I am now... and seeing you both got through it (and recommend X3) is encouraging  :)
 
 
M.G.
 
P.S.  some songs I recorded in 2008 (using Sonar 6 I believe):
www.reverbnation.com/bitd
 
 
#28
Zargg
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/04/14 09:41:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2017/04/14 15:39:14
I went from SONAR 4, to X3. It was a massive jump.
But as chuckebaby said. It has a record button, faders etc. That's how I started learning X3.
I just used the basics first. Record, level, pan, routing, FX (delay, reverb ect).
Baby steps 

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, SONAR Platinum X64 (latest) ∞, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, Asus Sabertooth 990fx R2, GeForce GT 610, 2 x 120gb and 2 x 240GB SSD, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#29
M.G.
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Re: Not happy with X3 Producer.... 2017/04/14 18:07:52 (permalink)
Well... right off the bat I'm having issues with an audio interface I bought a couple years ago.  I wanted to use something other than my extremely dated sound card, so I purchased a Lexicon Alpha in 2015.  Tried it yesterday with no luck... couldn't update the drivers.  Maybe it isn't compatible with my system (Windows 7 64-bit)?
 
I started a new topic in Hardware but I thought I would mention it here... you guys have been very helpful!
#30
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