OT: Canadians & Global Warming

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John
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/29 21:03:17 (permalink)
than ever previously recorded.

Just a question what did Grunt the caveman report was the highest temp he recorded. I'm not sure but I don't think he had a thermometer. He might have though.

Best
John
#31
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/29 21:49:22 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Richard Brian

The scare over global warming, and our politicians' response to it, is becoming ever more bizarre. On the one hand we have the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change coming up with yet another of its notoriously politicised reports, hyping up the scare by claiming that world surface temperatures have been higher in 11 of the past 12 years (1995-2006) than ever previously recorded.

This carefully ignores the latest US satellite figures showing temperatures having fallen since 1998, declining in 2007 to a 1983 level - not to mention the newly revised figures for US surface temperatures showing that the 1930s had four of the 10 warmest years of the past century, with the hottest year of all being not 1998, as was previously claimed, but 1934.






I heard somewhat different figures. I heard a NASA report was being discredited because they said the 10 hottest years in the last century had occurred since 1990, but apparently that wasn't entirely true because one of the hottest years was 1934. So only 9 of the hottest years of the last century were since 1990.

As far as our (USA) politician's responses to climate change...just what is their response? They all seem to have different ideas, they're all over the place...and so far they're mostly verbal responses...no real action, right?

I don't know if it's real or not. Some left-wingers go a bit far, for sure...but some right-winger's responses (i'm talkin' general public here) are kinda funny. They keep alluding to something akin to a left-wing conspiracy of some sort being behind any data on climate change...but I'm still waiting for the punchline. Just what is this conspiracy and what is hoped to be gained by it? NASA is a left-wing conspiracy? What am I missing?




#32
Richard Brian
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/29 22:10:49 (permalink)
I heard somewhat different figures.



And I think that is the very point. There is definitely an antithesis of consensus.


I heard a NASA report was being discredited


Hehe, the same NASA that predicted an Ice Age.

Ah, but maybe they were right, Antarctic temperatures disagree with climate model predictions. A new report on climate over the world's southernmost continent shows that temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as had been predicted by many global climate models.

No, wait, 10 months later, we find that Antarctic ice thawing faster than predicted. The U.N. panel said that rising temperatures due to more and more greenhouse gases from human activities led by use of fossil fuels were melting ice.


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j boy
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/29 22:15:29 (permalink)
As Depeche Mode sang, everything counts in large amounts.
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 08:44:41 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Richard Brian

I heard somewhat different figures.



And I think that is the very point. There is definitely an antithesis of consensus.







Thanks for the links. I think you make a valid point.

#35
Westside Steve
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 09:03:32 (permalink)
For good or ill we all realize that IF global warming is a grave danger and IF it is caused by humans and CO2 emmissions and IF that has caused a sgnificant change over the past decade

Then:

Since there is no possible way to halt or reverse those emissions worldwide nor even slow their growth (given the exponential population growth) we must admit the fat lady will be singing in months rather than years.

Thanks to us there will at least be some good music to listen to on the way out.


WSS
post edited by Westside Steve - 2007/11/30 09:04:14
#36
Scoot
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 09:39:30 (permalink)
We have had the same claim nwith the British and Milk. Yep Milk, they want us to store our Milk Differently to save energy. Europe you see is Drinls UHT Milk, which can then be stored a room temperatures. In Britain, we prefere Pasturised, which is pasturised at source (The Dairy that is, not the cow), and is then transported in in refroigerated tankers, and contiually stored refridgerated at both the store and home before consumption.

I can't see us changing for the payoff between the energy of pasturisation and refridgeration against the energy of Ultra Heat Treatment, as UHT tastes nasty and pointless.

Not my prolblem though, haven't had milk for 3 years, there are enough other with milk as it is

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#37
AvR
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 10:00:13 (permalink)
I modified my fridge to automatically open an air exchange outside at temps below 3 degrees C(New Brunswick,Canada). The refrigeration process auto reverses as well, too keep from getting too cold. I'm doing my part! As for beer, I guess it bottoms up and drained so fast the liquid actually drops in temperature to a very drinkable range. So no need here for chillin'.

AvR
#38
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 10:04:35 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: bobr
Canadian Beer Drinkers Threaten Planet

Blame Canada! (can't believe no-one jumped on this yet! Best song ever - and I am in fact very much Canadian)

Actually, keeping it cold only marginally improves the taste of Canadian beer, much of which is pretty bad - really not much better than American beer, which is very likely the worst in the world.

(I live in Germany; the beer here is GOOD. Really good. Not quite as good as in the Czech Republic, but a very close second. Czech beer is so deeply wonderful that I have trouble calling the American and Canadian stuff by the same name - let alone drinking it...)


Are Molsen & Labatts the only beers sold in Canada?


... thankfully not; as in the States there are a plethora of microbreweries whose product tends to be a good deal better than the mainstream brands. It's still pretty bad by German or Belgian or Czech standards though.


Is there anything at all that humans do that is not going to destroy our planet?


It really gives me a chuckle that a major American network can actually propose that the 1/3 of Canadian households - that's perhaps 10 million, by the way - that have a second fridge for beer, is measurably responsible for global warming, when less than a year ago they were toeing the party line that Americans should by no means stop driving their gigantic SUVs around as much as possible, never mind that environmental crap...

We are not in fact going to destroy the planet, it's our own skins we should be worried about. The planet will still be here long after we've made it uninhabitable for ourselves or otherwise killed each other off, which we appear to be in a great hurry to do. For the most part, we richly deserve our fate, but the countless species of other animals that we are taking out along the way are blameless, and that's definitely a shame.
post edited by subtlearts - 2007/11/30 10:05:40

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#39
jimack
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 10:12:40 (permalink)
We are not in fact going to destroy the planet, it's our own skins we should be worried about. The planet will still be here long after we've made it uninhabitable for ourselves or otherwise killed each other off, which we appear to be in a great hurry to do. For the most part, we richly deserve our fate, but the countless species of other animals that we are taking out along the way are blameless, and that's definitely a shame.


Amen.

-- Jim

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#40
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 11:29:49 (permalink)



... thankfully not; as in the States there are a plethora of microbreweries whose product tends to be a good deal better than the mainstream brands. It's still pretty bad by German or Belgian or Czech standards though.


Don't forget British beer, it's not the same as the european Lagers of Belgium Germany and the Czech Replublic, but is just as fantasic. With Bitter, Mild, Pale Ale, Indian pale, Stout and the varieties of Hops, there is so much to choose from, we are second to Belgium for the number of differnet beers brewed

Mmmmmmmm..... Beer

Funny that France only has Kronenburg on Tap


post edited by Scoot - 2007/11/30 11:30:17

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#41
Chuck E. Jesus
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 11:44:33 (permalink)
i know my beer belches alone contribute to global warming...


sorry guys....
#42
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 12:15:42 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: John
Just a question what did Grunt the caveman report was the highest temp he recorded. I'm not sure but I don't think he had a thermometer. He might have though.

... that's why God invented ice cores!

ORIGINAL: Scoot
Don't forget British beer, it's not the same as the european Lagers of Belgium Germany and the Czech Replublic, but is just as fantasic. With Bitter, Mild, Pale Ale, Indian pale, Stout and the varieties of Hops, there is so much to choose from, we are second to Belgium for the number of differnet beers brewed

... true, indeed! I'm a big fan of the various English varieties, and their Irish cousins too. To me, each of the great brewing nations has its own character. The Czech Republic is however my personal Mecca, and I believe any true beer aficionado should make the pilgrimage. Seek out the older traditional pubs, away from the tourist centre or at least off its main drag - sometimes just a block away... heaven in a glass!

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#43
aaronk
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 13:33:50 (permalink)
as in the States there are a plethora of microbreweries whose product tends to be a good deal better than the mainstream brands. It's still pretty bad by German or Belgian or Czech standards though.


Here in the Pacific Northwest, those are fighting words, especially among those of us who consider Michael Jackson to be a great beer writer (let him RIP) rather than a bizarre gloved thing.

Having had plenty of German, Czech and Belgian beers in their native environments, and also plenty of local microbrew, here's my conclusion: the best German, Belgian, Czech, and US microbrew beers are all really, really good. The styles are so different that arguing which is "better" is like arguing over the comparative merits of Beethoven, the Beatles, and Charlie Parker.
#44
aaronk
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 13:35:07 (permalink)
Funny that France only has Kronenburg on Tap


In fairness, France does offer a wider selection of local wine than the UK.
#45
Scoot
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 14:23:17 (permalink)




In fairness, France does offer a wider selection of local wine than the UK.


So does, Germany, Belgium and Spain and they also have more variety on tap, Just an observation that's all, I would have thought they had more, especially the area near belbuim and and the Alsace region. I'll be out tonight with about 5 French and a few Spanish friends tonight, so no worries, I have no issues with the French

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#46
Paul G
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 15:46:06 (permalink)
Apparently you guys have too much time on your hands. So here's my take on this:

They can have my beer fridge when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!


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#47
mudgel
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 16:28:14 (permalink)
I wasn't aware that other coutnries had beer already. Thought it was an Australian invention.

Nice to know that I can now get up to date and accurate information regarding, climate change, how to keep my beer cold and other places where I can get a cold beer, all at the friendly SONAR forum.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#48
Chuck E. Jesus
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 16:44:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: mudgel



Nice to know that I can now get up to date and accurate information regarding, climate change, how to keep my beer cold and other places where I can get a cold beer, all at the friendly SONAR forum.



you can also get a beer fridge from Paul G's cold dead hands...

don't forget your pry bar...
post edited by Chuck E. Jesus - 2007/11/30 16:57:01
#49
AndyW
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 16:46:30 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Richard Brian

While we're off-topic, this story caught my eye: We are set on a course of 'planet saving' madness

The scare over global warming, and our politicians' response to it, is becoming ever more bizarre. On the one hand we have the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change coming up with yet another of its notoriously politicised reports, hyping up the scare by claiming that world surface temperatures have been higher in 11 of the past 12 years (1995-2006) than ever previously recorded.

This carefully ignores the latest US satellite figures showing temperatures having fallen since 1998, declining in 2007 to a 1983 level - not to mention the newly revised figures for US surface temperatures showing that the 1930s had four of the 10 warmest years of the past century, with the hottest year of all being not 1998, as was previously claimed, but 1934.

-Fin


Hey, somebody grab me a beer.








Shhhh...the facts don't support the global warming hysteria so don't mention them! Sheez...didn't you get the memo? The "debate" is over!

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AndyW

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#50
John
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 16:52:41 (permalink)
What debate? What memo?

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John
#51
pianodano
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 17:02:13 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Westside Steve

For good or ill we all realize that IF global warming is a grave danger and IF it is caused by humans and CO2 emmissions and IF that has caused a sgnificant change over the past decade

Then:

Since there is no possible way to halt or reverse those emissions worldwide nor even slow their growth (given the exponential population growth) we must admit the fat lady will be singing in months rather than years.

Thanks to us there will at least be some good music to listen to on the way out.


WSS



You're worrying way to much. It's elementary. As we reach peak oil, and many experts are sure we already have, the fat lady will most likely lose the fat because she'll have to walk everywhere and use her own energy, along with all the rest of us, to get anything done. We will no longer be able to afford a s**tload of "slaves" working for the price of a gallon a gas. That is, of course, unless she can create energy out of nothing or some other "genius" figures out how to do that. Also, we'll all be hoping like heck it will get warm just so we won't FREEZE in the winter.

And I do notice that nobody has pointed out the huge amounts of energy that will be used in making and transporting to market that brand new refrigerator, just in the hope that it save a few kilowatts over it's lifetime.
post edited by pianodano - 2007/11/30 17:18:04

Best,

Danny

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#52
bobr
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 17:08:50 (permalink)
Shhhh...the facts don't support the global warming hysteria so don't mention them! Sheez...didn't you get the memo? The "debate" is over!


LOL Isn't that the truth!


Wait, that's not funny is it???


Oh hell.
#53
subtlearts
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 17:11:15 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: pianodano
... And I do notice that nobody has pointed out the huge amounts of energy used in making that new refrigerator, just in the hope that it save a few kilowatts over it's lifetime.


... hey, that's no fair, that's like talking about the massive input of fossil fuels, not to mention other related ecological destruction, required to mine the silver needed to make solar cells! Or, to build the factories that make giant fans for wind turbines! Or the absolute disastrous insanity that is the biofuel revolution!

Speaking of which, the subsidies given to farmers in the EU to convert to biofuel crops is beginning to affect the price of beer (I knew I could get us back on topic!), and that's a darn shame.
post edited by subtlearts - 2007/11/30 17:25:04

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#54
pianodano
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 17:25:52 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: subtlearts

Speaking of which, the subsidies given to farmers in the EU to convert to biofuel crops is beginning to affect the price of beer (I knew I could get us back on topic!), and that's a darn shame.


Um, don't know iffin you noticed lately, but the corn used to make it (fuel) over here is also starting to affect the price of something REAL important. The price of FOOD. Last time I checked (and the information is freely available), the entire world had on hand a 59 day supply of it. And we're making ethanol out of it as fast as the farmers can get it out of the ground. lol. All praying people need to spend a lot of prayer time praying for the drought to end . . real soon. And while they're at it, also ask that we have another mild winter.
post edited by pianodano - 2007/11/30 17:42:54

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#55
Bonzos Ghost
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 17:26:39 (permalink)
Ok...this is the last straw....

Being a Canadian, I'm totally p**sed....The Global Warming Nazis just took away my beer fridge, and my beer.

SO....Are there any good freebie Beer Fridge VST's out there?
#56
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 18:18:08 (permalink)
Being a Canadian

But its all your fault don't you know! The entire GW is all your doing you and those two fridges you got! Now if you would remove just one I then could have my three plus a walk in freezer.
post edited by John - 2007/11/30 19:07:19

Best
John
#57
Blackwaters End
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 18:44:14 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: subtlearts



... hey, that's no fair, that's like talking about the massive input of fossil fuels, not to mention other related ecological destruction, required to mine the silver needed to make solar cells! Or, to build the factories that make giant fans for wind turbines! Or the absolute disastrous insanity that is the biofuel revolution!





But if you assume those fossil fuels are a finite resource and you don't use the resources that are here now to manufacture the means to tap into renewable sources...aren't you going to create a bigger lack of energy (at some point) that will be difficult to get out of (especially given the financial toll of getting to a point where energy to run industry is largely unavailable)?
#58
Blackwaters End
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 18:47:31 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: John

The entire GW is all your dong you and those two fridges you got!




That's disgusting!

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pianodano
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RE: OT: Canadians & Global Warming 2007/11/30 19:41:56 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Blackwaters End



But if you assume those fossil fuels are a finite resource and you don't use the resources that are here now to manufacture the means to tap into renewable sources...aren't you going to create a bigger lack of energy (at some point) that will be difficult to get out of (especially given the financial toll of getting to a point where energy to run industry is largely unavailable)?


We're there now. Or we will be very soon. That's why predictions are that energy costs are about to skyrocket.

40 years ago my Dad, who always had a knack for reducing everything to the bottom line, told me. "People just don't seem to understand that even if the entire world was an oil drum, it would run out". Well, we're not exactly running out of it just yet but there simply will not be enough supply to meet demand because of peak oil.

Solutions available ?

Biofuels. People are starving around the world and we're follish enough to turn food into fuel.

Electric cars. The electric utility in my state already has to reduce the line voltage to around 100 volts in the summer. What a hoot it will be when everybody runs out to plug their car in.


Hydrogen. Only in America will people fall for a miracle "energy" source that needs more energy to create it than can be extracted out of it.

Solar. Maybe some help But only if we're willing to give up all of Arizona and most of New mexico for collector farms.

In a nutshell, if our government (US) had been run by people that really knew or cared about what was ahead of us as a country, and I'm talking dems and repubs, immediately after 9-11 it would have enacted a 3 dollar a gallon excise tax on gasoline and all other oil products except heating fuel and also required cash only sales, thereby forcing us as Americans to curtail our wasteful habits. It would have been the death knell for many wasteful organizations also. Demand would have fallen to manageable levels overnight. But if they would have done that, it also would have exposed the underlying problem with our economy and it's REAL fallacy. That is, a economy which is based on unrestricted growth and it's exponential requirements for more of everything.

The smart money repeatedly say's, don't concern yorself to much with the possibility that mankind is causing global warming by the use of fossil fuels. That problem will begin recede somewhere between now and around 2012, unless drastic measures are taken.

I know this is supposed to be a FUN forum but I wish my fellow Americans would spend just a little time learning about these problems. Recently, the President's energy advisor publicly stated that not 1 American in 100 knew what was soon to occur OR, even cared about the insurmountable problems ahead. He continued that most Americans had unbridled optimism that some miracle fix was just around the corner. That's understandable I suppose because we have never lived without all the energy we wanted to use and at very economical prices.


Best,

Danny

Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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