hi marah,

i mostly agree with your reply to my posting - yet i dont see my example as to be that extreme (30 recorded tracks with cheap gear)
when i was running my studio a few years ago we mainly recorded classical and/or accoutic stuff sometimes in orchestra size....so 30 mics was realistic...actually we had a ton of akg 414, which still were not the most suitable for the job, and we ran them trough mackie pres to some multitracker (so it wasnt really high end - but it wasnt cheap either)
and i know some commonly used piece of gear that sound harsh/noisy whatever (especially cheaper mics) so we would definitely have had a probleme with those then



cheers

ORIGINAL: Lanceindastudio

its only a golden era of "recording" (not necessarily music making) if you have something to offer. If ya got crap, all the opportunity in the world doesnt help. But, hell I have a friend that used almost all behringer pre's and a behringer lightpipe setup to record a a cd recently and it sound absolutely fantastic, performance wise and sound wise.

I just recorded almost a whole record at paramount studios in Hollywood. We had an engineer. We used an SSL board pre's and all Neuman U87's and we had distressors, preamps, all the good stuff at our disposal. Some of the vocals I recorded at my studio. Mine were just as good, and actually not having to go through another engineer, we actually got better performance because it was totally the singer and I 1 on 1 making it happen. Sound quality? Excellent. Any difference from the sound of the two was pretty much irrelevant.

My opinion isnt coming from no where. Funny thing, I started talking gear with him, and guess what he told me without me saying anything? "The mics and stuff dont really matter too much nowadays, as long as you know what your doing and if you have good material". I got a BIG smile on my face when he said that :) I didnt say much, just smiled.

hi lance . it is my habit to eventually put things to a sort of "extreme" when i am involved in a discussion- i think this is sometimes useful to get to the essence of things - if we all agreed in first place no discussion would be needed (boring)
so i am not really a promoter of "only high end" i agree that everything is possible...i also have some older tracks that have a great appeal on people annd still i diddnt know much about gear and technique when i made them...
as i said - everything is relative - we do not need sonar and 64 bits - still we like to use it...hard to draw a line what is "needed" to to a good work...one could say almost everything we use today is silly luxury (big cars/flat tv/jacuzi...)
if i could choose id obviously prefer hig end gear because if you know whta you want you´d probably get it faster....
and again: why is a urei comp a legend and a behringer compressor a waste of money? (at least sometimes truth isnt relative)
i never postulated that an idiot would be able to make good music because of good gear anyway...but nowadays the quality of production is much more in focus as some years ago - so it is also legitimate to say a production is well done - even when musically average (isnt that what happens with a lot of hits today) - i am sot saying this is good - but why deny this shift in perspective ...the "war on loudness" is just a small part of this...and i bet you to get your mix to an average of -7rms with "cheap" gear - it will ruin it very probably....

I am very impressed, first by your genuine humility, DK, and second by the relative simplicity of the concepts shared. I have always heard that you must subtract, not add and so this pretty much confirms it.

The letter from the editor in the August '08 issue of mix makes a very relevant point, in light of your experience. Bruce Swedien is quoted when asking a question to students on how they learn critical listening. A student will inevitably raise a hand and say, "I listen over and over to records I like".

Bruce replies,

"That's the worse thing you can do... The best thing you can do is go listen to music... Go listen to an orchestra in a good acoustic space. Go listen to a band in a club that you know. Learn how the instrument is supposed to sound. Then listen to how it balances with the rest of the pieces.

The point is then made by the editor of Mix,

"His point? rather than focusing on the work of others, engineers must, first and foremost, understand music."

Kudos DK!

F@KKER

Great thread, really enjoyed reading it.

I'd just like to add that when I record I don't mix as I go along and usually mute alot of whats already record when over-dubbing.(Except when absolutely necessary) I got into that habit when using an old crappy Tascam 4 Track and trying to minimalize the crossfeed from the headphones. Great days.

When people come here to record they usually complain that they don't hear all of the instruments when over-dubbing vocals and such but the end result has always proven beneficial, so far. (Touch Wood)

Hello there? this is wayne, i beliele he means 222 hz instead of 225k, k is hsort for kilo means times thousans
if it were actually 225, then that is out of the frequency range of human hearing. it is 24k top, or 24,000 cycper second.
thats human being, the little snail lookin thing inside the sides of the creatures head.
hey wayne, your a creature too.
oh, yeah, thats rite,
i had a test in the USMS way back when, in this little osund booth, you wear some speacial hi feak headofnes, then sit in this little booth, then push a button when you hear osund, relase it when you dont. thats how they did it back in the mid 17's anyway. late 70's. whatever. it sounds like hiss is all. aint much musci up there. however, there are the harminics of struinged intruments which wont be true using cd specs. at 48k we have one point for positive, one point for negative to represent the wave, then we send that to the speak, where it moves the cone one direction for positive, and tho other directino for negative, that moves the little air molecules that moves the little hair things inside the little snail thing that hooks up the auditory nerve going into those creature brains, then dopamnube ub rteleased in the nucleous accumbenns then we are strung out on music for good. thats all she wrote.
so anyway, at 96Kilo (abrievated upper case K allways
normally unless john best is on the line hey man with that caps would ja.
(96,000)operations per second of the sound card, things are a little better,
we get 4 points to drawl a picture of the wave, using connect trhe dots,
the dots being the voltage at the time of meaurment,
in this case 96,000 times per second.of the wave we are recording,
thats the full sine wave, in case that it is a sine wave,
it may be a complex sound such a the ones generated by our beloved rapture or dimension in SONAR too
anyway, they are harmnics, they happan at doubling of the frerquenceny,and halving of the freak,
of the the center freq of the sting, in the case of a a 440 actaull a 220 on a guitar.
thats in the help files on SONAR too.
so what i am saying is, thats why things sound ok when we listen to cd's
not much sound up there anyway, in that hi freq range,
hi as perceived by that little auditory nerve siganl generat4or from stimulus snail lookin thing.
whadde say?
duh, i dunnon, somthing bout 192000 being 8 dots at 24 thousand cycles per second tone off the tape.
or off of dimension. i mean on raptutre output to the adc's .
oh, 8 dots, well now, thats allmost enuf to drawl a smooth sine wave form maybe even enuf to kinda drawl a saw tooth
saw wave form in this case.
opper freq levels of hearing.
interesting place if you have an oportuinity to hear it.
so anyway, the harmonics are affected the most, and they are at a very low level in comparison
to the center string freq, must be a picker tho .
im looking to route my guitar thru rarture someday.
if i can finish reading all the help files keeping my evey open.
in the old days of tape, as the same freq range is where most all of the tape hiss is heard,
they used to like to filter it out, we dont need an accuarte representaion of tape noise,
so 44.1k ll do ok besindes.
those days, man, is that alot of disk space, my
my God, a giga byte. thats alot, a billion teletype characters is what it is. wheew man thats a lot of typing.
i mean god with a capital g, see something to do with a littie gi being a flase god, or something like that.
liike a gold stature or something like that , aw i cant remember now, it has been a long time.
later on this is wayne out in sf ca usa working on SONAR today, by gone

D K.. to be clear, i thought your post was great, i read it as suggestive, and i thought they were good ones.. you got people talking and that is what this forum is all about....... keep it up man..... peace

If this is a joke, how did you find the time to type like that?

ORIGINAL: TTY TECH

Hello there? this is wayne, i beliele he means 222 hz instead of 225k, k is hsort for kilo means times thousans
if it were actually 225, then that is out of the frequency range of human hearing. it is 24k top, or 24,000 cycper second.
thats human being, the little snail lookin thing inside the sides of the creatures head.
hey wayne, your a creature too.
oh, yeah, thats rite,
i had a test in the USMS way back when, in this little osund booth, you wear some speacial hi feak headofnes, then sit in this little booth, then push a button when you hear osund, relase it when you dont. thats how they did it back in the mid 17's anyway. late 70's. whatever. it sounds like hiss is all. aint much musci up there. however, there are the harminics of struinged intruments which wont be true using cd specs. at 48k we have one point for positive, one point for negative to represent the wave, then we send that to the speak, where it moves the cone one direction for positive, and tho other directino for negative, that moves the little air molecules that moves the little hair things inside the little snail thing that hooks up the auditory nerve going into those creature brains, then dopamnube ub rteleased in the nucleous accumbenns then we are strung out on music for good. thats all she wrote.
so anyway, at 96Kilo (abrievated upper case K allways
normally unless john best is on the line hey man with that caps would ja.
(96,000)operations per second of the sound card, things are a little better,
we get 4 points to drawl a picture of the wave, using connect trhe dots,
the dots being the voltage at the time of meaurment,
in this case 96,000 times per second.of the wave we are recording,
thats the full sine wave, in case that it is a sine wave,
it may be a complex sound such a the ones generated by our beloved rapture or dimension in SONAR too
anyway, they are harmnics, they happan at doubling of the frerquenceny,and halving of the freak,
of the the center freq of the sting, in the case of a a 440 actaull a 220 on a guitar.
thats in the help files on SONAR too.
so what i am saying is, thats why things sound ok when we listen to cd's
not much sound up there anyway, in that hi freq range,
hi as perceived by that little auditory nerve siganl generat4or from stimulus snail lookin thing.
whadde say?
duh, i dunnon, somthing bout 192000 being 8 dots at 24 thousand cycles per second tone off the tape.
or off of dimension. i mean on raptutre output to the adc's .
oh, 8 dots, well now, thats allmost enuf to drawl a smooth sine wave form maybe even enuf to kinda drawl a saw tooth
saw wave form in this case.
opper freq levels of hearing.
interesting place if you have an oportuinity to hear it.
so anyway, the harmonics are affected the most, and they are at a very low level in comparison
to the center string freq, must be a picker tho .
im looking to route my guitar thru rarture someday.
if i can finish reading all the help files keeping my evey open.
in the old days of tape, as the same freq range is where most all of the tape hiss is heard,
they used to like to filter it out, we dont need an accuarte representaion of tape noise,
so 44.1k ll do ok besindes.
those days, man, is that alot of disk space, my
my God, a giga byte. thats alot, a billion teletype characters is what it is. wheew man thats a lot of typing.
i mean god with a capital g, see something to do with a littie gi being a flase god, or something like that.
liike a gold stature or something like that , aw i cant remember now, it has been a long time.
later on this is wayne out in sf ca usa working on SONAR today, by gone

ORIGINAL: vicsant

As you've noted, one of the single biggest improvements you can make to your mixes is getting comfortable with using high-pass filters.

So so true. All my mixes now has the VC64 on the master bus with HPF. It's greatly simplified and improved my mix. I now use EQ sparingly on individual tracks.

Umm the point was to use plenty of HPF on indivdual tracks to make room for the kick and bass frequencies.
HPF on master buss? Roll off a little low end maybe, but that doesnt accomplish what he was talking about.
His point was to take lots of low and mid frequencies out of every track that doesnt need them. That isn't sparingly eq'd, that is drastic.

Maybe Im just not following you correctly?

ORIGINAL: TTY TECH

Hello there? this is wayne, i beliele he means 222 hz instead of 225k, k is hsort for kilo means times thousans
if it were actually 225, then that is out of the frequency range of human hearing. it is 24k top, or 24,000 cycper second.
thats human being, the little snail lookin thing inside the sides of the creatures head.
hey wayne, your a creature too.
oh, yeah, thats rite,
i had a test in the USMS way back when, in this little osund booth, you wear some speacial hi feak headofnes, then sit in this little booth, then push a button when you hear osund, relase it when you dont. thats how they did it back in the mid 17's anyway. late 70's. whatever. it sounds like hiss is all. aint much musci up there. however, there are the harminics of struinged intruments which wont be true using cd specs. at 48k we have one point for positive, one point for negative to represent the wave, then we send that to the speak, where it moves the cone one direction for positive, and tho other directino for negative, that moves the little air molecules that moves the little hair things inside the little snail thing that hooks up the auditory nerve going into those creature brains, then dopamnube ub rteleased in the nucleous accumbenns then we are strung out on music for good. thats all she wrote.
so anyway, at 96Kilo (abrievated upper case K allways
normally unless john best is on the line hey man with that caps would ja.
(96,000)operations per second of the sound card, things are a little better,
we get 4 points to drawl a picture of the wave, using connect trhe dots,
the dots being the voltage at the time of meaurment,
in this case 96,000 times per second.of the wave we are recording,
thats the full sine wave, in case that it is a sine wave,
it may be a complex sound such a the ones generated by our beloved rapture or dimension in SONAR too
anyway, they are harmnics, they happan at doubling of the frerquenceny,and halving of the freak,
of the the center freq of the sting, in the case of a a 440 actaull a 220 on a guitar.
thats in the help files on SONAR too.
so what i am saying is, thats why things sound ok when we listen to cd's
not much sound up there anyway, in that hi freq range,
hi as perceived by that little auditory nerve siganl generat4or from stimulus snail lookin thing.
whadde say?
duh, i dunnon, somthing bout 192000 being 8 dots at 24 thousand cycles per second tone off the tape.
or off of dimension. i mean on raptutre output to the adc's .
oh, 8 dots, well now, thats allmost enuf to drawl a smooth sine wave form maybe even enuf to kinda drawl a saw tooth
saw wave form in this case.
opper freq levels of hearing.
interesting place if you have an oportuinity to hear it.
so anyway, the harmonics are affected the most, and they are at a very low level in comparison
to the center string freq, must be a picker tho .
im looking to route my guitar thru rarture someday.
if i can finish reading all the help files keeping my evey open.
in the old days of tape, as the same freq range is where most all of the tape hiss is heard,
they used to like to filter it out, we dont need an accuarte representaion of tape noise,
so 44.1k ll do ok besindes.
those days, man, is that alot of disk space, my
my God, a giga byte. thats alot, a billion teletype characters is what it is. wheew man thats a lot of typing.
i mean god with a capital g, see something to do with a littie gi being a flase god, or something like that.
liike a gold stature or something like that , aw i cant remember now, it has been a long time.
later on this is wayne out in sf ca usa working on SONAR today, by gone

I want some of what he's on!

yeah man... the good ole days...

I've tried doing this, and I had NO bottom end. Maybe I did something wrong.. lol what was left sounded clear and great but I miss my bass... what did I do wrong?

ORIGINAL: stevec

what was left sounded clear and great but I miss my bass

Did you add a HPF to the bass and/or kick tracks? If so, at what frequency? Personally, if I HPF either of these I usually set the frequency very low (varies with the source). I don't want to thin out the low lows too much since adding HPF's to all the other tracks is usually done so the kick and bass can "own" that space in the first place.

Of course, there's the whole other issue of forcing those two to get along in low-low land...

It said to back off the HPF off to get the bass without adding mud... but i basically take it down to about 20 to do that, which is where I used to do it before reading this... sooo i guess the point is that go hard on the HPF on everything except bass and kick

I guess those two boys can fight it out down there and all the rest just needs to get out of their way.

interesting thread

thnx for sharring :D