OT - I've been Schooled! - Long Post!

I thought I would take the opportunity to pass on to some of us newbies and amateurs the things I learned over the last few days.

A little context is necessary: I just recently completed doing the bass tracks for a record (all online) so for the last 3 weeks I have FINALLY been able to get back to work on my original stuff. I have been thinking that the rough mixes have been O.K but they were lacking - They seemed a little "dull" and lacking that "polished" middle and sweet high end that I hear on my favorite commercial recordings.

I asked my friend who attends my church to evaluate the mixes for me - He is one of the top commercial spot and jingle mixers in town but he made his mark in the late 70's and early 80's mixing some pretty big time acts Live and in the Studio. He has worked with people like Foghat, Triumph, Cameo and others. Needless to say – The guy knows his way around a mix (and he’s a pretty fine guitar player as well). He first asked me what I wanted the mixes to sound like (examples) and then asked what I thought was wrong with them before he listened. He called me last week and said he liked the songs and that he would help me work on them; then he said this–

“I am willing to put some time into these mixes and teach you some things but I need to know this first; “How attached are you to the sounds in these mixes? – I am not talking about the instrumentation I am talking about the individual sounds of them”. Boy, what a LOADED and HUGE question that was and set the tone for what was to come! I didn’t know how to answer it but now I understand exactly what he was asking and why and this is the premise of my wordy thesis here:

Here we go:

He comes over to the house and we sit down – He says- “Are you ready? Cause there is probably going to be a lot of stuff that you’re not going to like very much”

Next thing he says “Dull mixes a lot of times are typical of console or analog mixes. Most of the time these are addressed at mastering stage - “Congested mixes are more the common problem” Amateurs often don’t know the difference

Statement #1 (and Huge) – “Dull mixes are not addressed at the high end – They are addressed at the Low Mids - Amateurs mix high and low – The big boys and girls mix Low Mid to High Mid – Because they know a great mix is built from the inside out – not instrument wise but frequency wise.”

1st blow – Wham! He took my snare (that I worked for what seemed like days) and HPF it… hard… Ookay!

2nd Blow – My guitars that I took all this time getting the mic position in just the right distance and angle – BLAM! HPF at 200K

3rd Blow – My deep lovely pulsing pads- lush smooth – BAM! HPF at 200-225K

I’m sitting there with my tongue on the floor at this point and he is not even close to done – He thins by beloved bass out with a deep notch at 225K! Now he’s getting personal! – Takes all my reverb returns and HPF them and INCREASES them. Reduces my Delay returns bumps them at 5Kand HPF’s them – You seeing the trend here?

Interesting note here that bears mentioning – He NEVER ONCE soloed an instrument saying “I wished the Solo button was off limits to all but experienced engineers”- I mention it because he went to the bathroom and I went and soloed all this stuff – Thin, crappy and weak sounding - all of them and especially the bass. And – He did this all very quietly at low monitoring levels. He did more like little notches and boost here and there over a few instruments but it was the filters that were killing me.

Now he is not doing much talking while he is doing this and I’m not either cause I’m speechless at this carnage. He does this for the next two days on 4 of these mixes – little different on others but basically the same thing. WE NEVER LISTENED AT VOLUME UNTIL Wednesday. He made me promise not to listen until he was finished.

WOW! Is all I can say – What I heard on Wednesday were mixes that were deeper, punchier, open at the top with sparkle but not even a hint of harshness – those little notches and bumps made the midrange sound smooth and controlled. Yesterday we finally had a post mix recap talk and he left me with these nuggets – A lot of the Pros on this board already know this and are probably either bored or laughing but for the rest of us I think it is good and pertinent info for getting better mixes:

1). There is no such thing as “mixing as you go along” – I used to say this all the time. Tracking is tracking, mixing is mixing and mastering is mastering. We can choose to “mingle” these if we want bit we do ourselves a disservice. Mixing is the ability to be brutal if necessary with the core sounds to best serve the mix. You can’t be married to the sounds. The goal is the mix and sometimes some core sounds are at conflict with the mix. You have to be able to judge that objectively. Wear one hat at a time.

2). Often times problems with one spectrum of the mix have their root cause in another spectrum of the mix- Dull or anemic top end = Congested or muddy low mids. Weak bottom end = Poor monitoring environment, improperly sculpted low mids and mids. Harsh Highs= improperly sculpted high mids, etc. These of course are not absolutes but can provide us with a good place to start looking.

3). DO NOT BE AFRAID TO BE BRUTAL WITH HPF/ FREQUECY CUTS to clean out the lows/low mids – There really was minimal EQing so to speak but there were tons of deep filters. This is not for the weak or faint of heart! I though I was doing the right thing with all these little 80-100-125K HPF – I was being a wimp!! Clean it up and clean it up good – Then you can start dealing with other spectrums – A well cleaned out low/low mid section of some mixes can be a little strange when you hear it at first – almost hollow – but once it’s clean things begin to pop and you can then bring back what you need but without the congestion and mud.

4). There is not an over compression problem – There is a misunderstanding of why, how and where to use compression problem among us newbies. He (and I have seen other top mixers say) that there is often NOT ENOUGH compression.. OF THE RIGHT KIND! He says compression is not about level but about dynamics – As a side effect because of certain units “Color” they can be used for the effect –IF you A).Understand what the certain compressor is doing to the signal dynamically first and B) Are aware that there are always trade-offs and damages for getting that “effect” – Do you understand them and overall is the effect critical to the mix? And finally

5). It’s a Marathon not a sprint – He said “ It’s taken me 30 years to learn how to mix and I still struggle” – That was very reassuring but at the same time I was very much taken aback.

Guess how this ends? – How could it end any other way! – This morning he stopped by the house and we had some coffee and talked some more – Then – he casually says – “Let’s go pull the mixes up real quick” – I think he is going to show me a few more pointers – Guess what he does? Deletes the mixes!@#@$^&*(

I’m like “what did you do that for!!? – I wanted to use those for reference” and he says –

“I did my mix – now you do yours”

Schooled – I appreciate Brian’s efforts with me and the nuggets he dropped – I just posted this cause I think when your given things of much of value you should pass it on.


Peace

Nice post BUT... what is HPF 200K (Highest Possible Frequency) 200K? It can't be 200 Khz.
I tried to google but with no avail.

A perfect example of the difference between us (like me) and them (like him).

I've been spending quite a bit of time recently on room treatment, and panning methods, and eq/filtering, and compression. Since carefully (and slowly) allowing myself to separate the "part" from the "song," I can notice a definite improvement in the quality. When you're tracking and arranging, it's tempting to get very attached to each one, but at the end of the day, it's the entire thing that you're giving to others.

I'm getting better, but like he said "30 years."

I have a long way to go, but posts like this give me hope.
If I read another 500 posts and put them into practice, maybe I'll get closer.

Thanks for this,
- zevo

Of course....you DID go back and rescue the files he deleted......right?

This needs to be a sticky!

Guess what he does? Deletes the mixes!@#@$^&*(

I’m like “what did you do that for!!? – I wanted to use those for reference” and he says –

“I did my mix – now you do yours”

That was brutal. I'll bet you're sorry you didn't save them while he was away.

Not surprised at all by what he did. Let me add one more from the school of "everyone should know ths by now, but..." to the list:

ALWAYS keep a reference file ready to play:

- a reference file is a mastered song by a group who you really want your music to sound like,
- where you have their song as a track in your own song file,
- with [their] track volume DOWN by (around) 3db (because their song is mastered and yours is NOT).

HPF is your friend.
Soloing tracks to set EQ / delays / etc. is NOT your friend.
Listening to your tracks over as many different playback monitors or systems (while CONSTANTLY comparing it to your "commercially acceptable" reference tracks) is you friend.

I truly hope this comes across as helpful, as that's what is intended. We're ALL learning here (... I sure am!).

Best,
Ed

PS, great post.

Not to be a wet blanket, but in trying to follow the original post I immediately got lost at the cutting things or using a HPF at "200K" part...Is that 20kHz, 2kHz, or 200Hz? Where is 200K in the hearing spectrum? Just curious (and I'm really not being a smart-ass, I was just trying to mentally decipher exactly which frequency per instrument you were talking about).

Thanks for sharing this with us.
I laughed out loud when I read the "deleting" part.

Mike

Papa2004,

I am using improper terms above - sorry about that - obviously when I say "200K" - I am speaking about 200Hz

Of course, someone with your experience already knew that though didnt you? Don't see may HPFs at 20Khz do we?

Glad you pointed it out though - my error - Here is a frequency spectrum charts for those who need it - http://www.har-bal.com/frequency.php

D K, what eq was he using to make the frequency cuts?

ORIGINAL: D K

Guess how this ends? – How could it end any other way! – This morning he stopped by the house and we had some coffee and talked some more – Then – he casually says – “Let’s go pull the mixes up real quick” – I think he is going to show me a few more pointers – Guess what he does? Deletes the mixes!@#@$^&*(

no worries, just use an un delete program

http://www.recuva.com/

or something else.

good that you had help though.

ORIGINAL: kb420

D K, what eq was he using to make the frequency cuts?

Nothing but the Sonitus!

And I have the UAD Cambridge which I think has much better filters.

Quick note here - Brian does not use Sonar - They use Nuendo at their facility so the only EQ he used was the Sonitus because it is the per track eq and he could access with my control surface. He did use some of the UAD Compressors I had active like the LA2A, 1776, Fairchild and he also did use and very much liked the Precison Buss Compressor.

They have high end stuff at their facility but this guy is the ultimate anti-gear snob type- He is totally a know what use-use what you got type.

I do so wish I had those files to post so you guys could hear it - No way I'm posting my crappy mixes now

ORIGINAL: Fog

ORIGINAL: D K

Guess how this ends? – How could it end any other way! – This morning he stopped by the house and we had some coffee and talked some more – Then – he casually says – “Let’s go pull the mixes up real quick” – I think he is going to show me a few more pointers – Guess what he does? Deletes the mixes!@#@$^&*(

no worries, just use an un delete program

http://www.recuva.com/

or something else.

good that you had help though.

Yeah -I have it and I thought about that too

But I believe I somehow understand why he did it - He's trying to teach me to work without crutches and be bold and disciplined and most of all use my ears and not rely on things I read - I'm very guilty of that

He invested his time - the least I can do is respect it (and him) and learn the lesson(s).

I'ts his mix - not mine - Class is over - There will be a test

Great post indeed!
I still remember when I (recently) heard a mix that was done this way and getting a chance to hear things soloed. What an eye opener. There was even CRAZY gating on the drums (mainly kick and snare) that sounded like absolute crap when soloed. Bring in the mix, not only could you not hear ANY artifacts from the gates, but it opened the sound up....HUH???

There are lots of tricks to this stuff. I'm also reading Bob Katz' Mastering Audio book and wow...there is some heavy stuff in there.

Thanks for your well written and enthusiastic report!

The dog comment was golden!

Erik