spacey
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Oily mess...
these are the monitors I've been using so you can see what I'm talking about. They're front loaded and the front panel is made of different material than the box. About a week ago I saw a spot that looked strange so I rubbed it with my finger and WHAT? A sticky shiny substance appeared. So what did I do? I got a hand towel and rubbed it so then I had a sticky shiny spot with cloth fibers stuck to it. So I started rubbing to get all the cloth fibers off and everywhere I touched the sticky shiny (like oil) would appear. So I rubbed the whole front so at least it would match LOL. I wondered if the other one would do it....damn. I called JBL and they put me with what they called "the sticky front panel lady"....man she had an attitude...guess folks been giving her hell because she was ready to give it back. I was nice and just asked what's to be done....she said firmly...stick 'em in a box with all your notes and send them to us! and I swear she growled. Well I told her, Bye. So far they have collected no insects and I don't rub them anymore.
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Old55
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 10:58:13
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My guess would be that a defective capacitor is leaking. That's the only thing I can think of that has oil. Had it been a few years ago, that stuff could have be a carcinogen. I think the old stuff was made illegal and newer, safer stuff is used now instead.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys? X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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spacey
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 11:13:55
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I think the composite material the fronts are made out of is breaking down. The way JBL folks talked they're getting flooded with folks calling with this problem. It's not a hard material. Reminds me of old dashboards that use to put an oily film on the windshield....but much, much worse. I deal with them and the problem when I have more time. I didn't ask any questions after I new it wasn't an isolated problem,they were willing to correct it and it's on they're records that I have reported it. They still work great...just ugly now.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 11:17:08
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It might be what is referred to as "ferro fluid". JBL can be really good about fixing stuff. I hope they do a good job for you. best regards, mike
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Old55
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 11:19:19
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Whatever it is, it sounds like you've it under control. Good luck with it.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys? X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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Crg
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 11:24:27
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How freaky is that? I came to within a button click of buying a pair of those. I take it you haven't opened them up? Could a bad fixative type goo used to hold down wires and such on the backside. Do they get sunlight at any time of day?
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spacey
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 11:24:44
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Just something to hassle with and let others know about that may have them- and if when it happens or if they're thinking about buying them- they may want to call and ask what's up with that since I don't know all the details yet. The bummer is not having them until they send them back and I don't know how long that will be and whether or not I have to pay for shipping- these things are heavy too. Time will tell. I did open one up. Clean inside. No sunlight. Whatever is happening to the material it apparently just happens...JBL sure knows-no doubt about that. lol
post edited by spacey - 2011/09/15 11:28:17
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bapu
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 13:44:49
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Did you let Mooch use them? If so, bad call. If not, I have no toughts for you.
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yorolpal
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 13:47:55
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You don't think that's why Mooch's butt itches, do ya?
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bapu
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 13:49:56
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yorolpal You don't think that's why Mooch's butt itches, do ya? You'll have to ask McQ. He's more technical than I.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 14:38:00
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It's the positive ions in the ferro fluid.
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bapu
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 14:40:28
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mike_mccue It's the positive ions in the ferro fluid. I sensed you say that. (even though I have not a clue what it means)
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ampfixer
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 14:50:01
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spacey these are the monitors I've been using so you can see what I'm talking about. They're front loaded and the front panel is made of different material than the box. About a week ago I saw a spot that looked strange so I rubbed it with my finger and WHAT? A sticky shiny substance appeared. So what did I do? I got a hand towel and rubbed it so then I had a sticky shiny spot with cloth fibers stuck to it. So I started rubbing to get all the cloth fibers off and everywhere I touched the sticky shiny (like oil) would appear. So I rubbed the whole front so at least it would match LOL. I wondered if the other one would do it....damn. I called JBL and they put me with what they called "the sticky front panel lady"....man she had an attitude...guess folks been giving her hell because she was ready to give it back. I was nice and just asked what's to be done....she said firmly...stick 'em in a box with all your notes and send them to us! and I swear she growled. Well I told her, Bye. So far they have collected no insects and I don't rub them anymore. I doubt that the liquid is from a capacitor or any other electronic component. It's likely cooling fluid seeping from the tweeter. If not that, I'd say they bonded two materials that don't react well and it's breaking down. Please let us know what it turns out to be.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 14:59:18
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I think it's the cooling fluid too... and it seems like if it did leak it would leak exactly where spacey says it's leaking. If it was some other component leaking I'd expect it to be over on the electronics package. I doubt something in this price range has oil impregnated capacitors. You might someday find a electrolytic cap that might have a pasty gel oozing out... it will look like dried up caulk... and it would be almost impossible for it to climb across the cabinet and leak of of a driver. I'd send them in or ask for a parts swap in at the earliest opportunity. best regards, mike
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 15:04:22
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from wiki: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Heat transfer An external magnetic field imposed on a ferrofluid with varying susceptibility (e.g., because of a temperature gradient) results in a nonuniform magnetic body force, which leads to a form of heat transfer called thermomagnetic convection. This form of heat transfer can be useful when conventional convection heat transfer is inadequate; e.g., in miniature microscale devices or under reduced gravity conditions. Ferrofluids are commonly used in loudspeakers to remove heat from the voice coil, and to passively damp the movement of the cone. They reside in what would normally be the air gap around the voice coil, held in place by the speaker's magnet. Since ferrofluids are paramagnetic, they obey Curie's law, thus become less magnetic at higher temperatures. A strong magnet placed near the voice coil (which produces heat) will attract cold ferrofluid more than hot ferrofluid thus forcing the heated ferrofluid away from the electric voice coil and toward a heat sink. This is an efficient cooling method which requires no additional energy input. [6]
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spacey
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 15:48:07
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I do appologize because I don't believe I made myself understood. I'll try again. The front part of the speaker (the panel) that the tweeter and woofer mount to, as you can see in the photo, is made of some type of composite material. It is not hard. Firm but one can push it much like a padded dash panel. Whatever chemicals they used to create this formed panel is having a reaction. I'm not certain if it is the same reaction as Moochs' butt but if he's coated with a sticky oily substance he may want to contact JBL. I'm sure wiping it is becoming quite a mess. I also found others on-line having the same issue with them. I'm glad I didn't get a surround package LOL. It does sound like some messed with it to much and pieces are pulling off....I'm glad I just lightly touched mine. Really is a bummer. I don't know if and when I'll send them back but I will let everybody know the details when I learn them. Really wanted to raise a flag for those considering them. They are great monitors as far as I know. I have and still enjoy them. Just a weird thing to have happen and I'd sure call and talk to them before buying. I don't know components being talked about leaking but I'd think it would be very unlikely that it would happen to both speakers at the same time and with them being internal components and this issue being on the outside only, and only on the front panel...just doesn't sound right to me.
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bapu
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 15:50:40
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I do hope you get replacements and they do not suffer from the same issue down the road. I'm sure Mooch hopes for the same results.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 15:51:07
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I have the LSR6328P models... and my friend has an older version of same. My firends baffle boards have a carbon fiber finish. Mine are genuine MDF particle board. :-) Spacey, were the baffle boards always soft or are they becoming soft? Now you have me really curious. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/15 15:57:17
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Jonbouy
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 16:53:35
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Plasticiser Migration. Maybe nothing to do with this thread but I wanted to sound like I had some technical savvy. So how did I do?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Mooch4056
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:01:06
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Hey Bapu -- smell my finger!
From Now On Call Me Conquistador! Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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bapu
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:11:51
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Mooch4056 Hey Bapu -- smell my finger! Smells like teen spirit (or does it?)
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ampfixer
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:12:32
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Jonbouy Plasticiser Migration. Maybe nothing to do with this thread but I wanted to sound like I had some technical savvy. So how did I do? I can't speak for the others but I was suitably impressed with your tech jargon. I was finishing a guitar recently and used color and clear coat from 2 different manufacturers. It just never cured or completely dried. The 2 laquers didn't like each other and it finally had to be stripped and re-sprayed. Sounds like the cabinet coating is breaking down. There will be big warranty money since it got into the market before the problem was identified. It happens all the time with cars.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Mooch4056
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:13:55
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bapu Mooch4056 Hey Bapu -- smell my finger! Smells like teen spirit (or does it?) nooooooooooooo that's not it ... not even close .... smell it again (holds out finger)
From Now On Call Me Conquistador! Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:15:27
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It seems like that model JBL is described as having an ABS front baffle board. ABS is a fairly stable plastic. Now I'm even more curious. best regards, mike
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ampfixer
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 17:32:57
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OOps! We forgot the UV stabilizer. Will anyone notice? Nah.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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spacey
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 21:59:42
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Mike, I'm sorry...I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe pictures will do it. Before; After 4 years....no sunlight has ever touched them..never...ever.. You can see the front panel has gone from a gray textured pad to a weird black sticky black oil. Lower left shows where I touched and slid my finger down it with only enough pressure to lightly drag my finger. I don't know but it seems like if one got a little ruff with it that it might start breaking apart. Just some funky stuff...that ain't working.
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Rbh
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/15 23:01:07
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I bet it's just a composite plastic/vinyl , with an elastomer mix, bad mix I'd say.... hmmm don't ya love every thing sourced from " the land of several billion" and a few years later it turns to crap. Chemistry is a tricky business, when it comes to longevity. Most testing for long term stability is to thermal cycle, radiate things a bit and throw in some humidity cycling for a few weeks and call it 15 years worth. JBL is probably taking it in the shorts for outsourcing to the lowest bidder. We'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing, sorry for your misfortune.
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spacey
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/16 07:50:55
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Thanks Rbh and others for the well wishes. Whatever the stuff is is something you take notice of the first time you see and feel it. I'll be shipping them back soon and I'll see how things go and let ya'll know.
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quantumeffect
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/16 08:51:30
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Liquid phenolic antioxidants are common; they are added at about the 1% level and are probably sticky liquids. Hindered amine light stabilizers (HALS) and ultraviolet absorbers are the common UV stabilizer additives. The mechanisms by which these two classes of stabilizers protect the plastic are different so they are typically added in combination. The HALS and UV absorber are each added at about the 1% level and are probably both solids at room temperature. My first guess would be (and I’m not doing anything more than restating what has already been said above) … phase separation of one of the additives. The most likely culprit being the antioxidant … but, I could be wrong.
post edited by quantumeffect - 2011/09/16 08:54:06
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Oily mess...
2011/09/16 20:21:03
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Hi Spacey, Wow... a picture is worth a thousand words. I never could have imagined. Thanks for passing on the info and taking the time to post the photo. best regards, mike
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