Phonic
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Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
Ok, as the subject says, I cannot cut a section of bars from the timeline. Previously I would select all tracks, then I would mark the bars for removal at the top of the track-selection and would select "edit, cut special, delete hole" and the bars would disappear. When I do this now, both Cut and Cut Special are greyed out. How do I cut bars?
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 01:49:05
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If there's no content in those bars, Cut and Delete have nothing to operate on. You'll have to select everything and drag it earlier. Just be sure the start of the selection is at the start of the first clip, not the start of the project, or you won't be able to drag earlier. If you have tempos or automation to move, Cut-Paste might be better a option.
Another option is to paste some dummy content into the section you want to delete.
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Blogman
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 01:49:26
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i noticed that yesterday too?.... delete hole not working
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 01:52:07
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Just speculating: I wonder if, say, active Melodyne or V-Vocal clips could cause that. No locked clips?
Or...do I remember wrong...was it once so that you couldn't cut-delete if the split points were on a MIDI-note tail?
You had to shorten/move the note so the split point was "free". Or something..:o/
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lawajava
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 02:15:31
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The content on a track somewhere in the bars you're deleting is a valid point. Do you have that?
My method for all sorts of bar movements takes advantage of the Select By Time choice under the Edit menu.
To delete bars or fractions of bars or chunks as needed:
1. Select All (double click on any track)
2. Under Edit choose Select By Time
3. In the Select By Time dialog choose your start and end points.
4. Control Alt X (that's Delete Special). Pick whether you want to delete the hole, delete the markers etc.
Same or similar process for copying and pasting blocks of bars and putting into other sections of a song.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 03:26:58
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There still needs to be data "in the hole" in order to delete the hole.
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neirbod
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 06:46:08
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You do need some data within the selected range for delete to work. I find this slightly annoying as there are times you just want to delete an empty space, and just dragging clips does not move markers, tempo changes etc. Older versions of Sonar allowed one to delete empty sections.
Workaround is not difficult fortunately. Just put something in the empty space first.
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VariousArtist
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 12:50:49
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neirbod
You do need some data within the selected range for delete to work. I find this slightly annoying as there are times you just want to delete an empty space, and just dragging clips does not move markers, tempo changes etc. Older versions of Sonar allowed one to delete empty sections.
Workaround is not difficult fortunately. Just put something in the empty space first.
^^ this is what I do. But I wish we didn't need the workaround. If I have some empty space in the middle of a song (which is perfectly valid musically, let alone there might be other reasons such as editing ideas together), then I should be able to delete that empty space methinks
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konradh
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 14:10:37
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I have not had good luck with cut and delete hole in a long time (many versions ago). I always have to delete and then slide.
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Phonic
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 15:16:33
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Ahh, ok, there is no data in the hole. I will manually move the tracks then.
Thanks!
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John T
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 20:53:47
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Hmm, weird limitation, this isn't it? You should just be able to delete empty time, I thimk.
Since we've clearly got some bold cutters and pasters in this thread, does anyone know a reliable way of selecting everything, including bus automation, in a given time range, and cutting and pasting it all? I can never get bus automation to become part of the cut, though I can get track automation to.
I've tried doing a Select All in the track window, and then manually adding each bus with a CTRL+click, but that doesn't seem to do it.
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Clint Swank
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 21:29:50
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Actually, I do this all the time, mostly to get rid of count-ins at the beginning of songs. Just to make sure I'm not hallucinating, I just checked it by deleting a bar in a song and then going back and deleting the resulting hole. Worked perfectly. You have to uncheck "Non-destructive Midi editing" in Preferences>Customization>Editing, I believe.
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John T
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/22 22:33:02
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 12:47:18
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Phonic
Ahh, ok, there is no data in the hole. I will manually move the tracks then.
Thanks!
Which will work fine PROVIDED you don't have any tempo changes, meter/key changes, markers or automation in your project. These will NOT slide when you slide your clips/tracks
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Jon Bryson
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 13:01:09
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Bristol_Jonesey
Phonic
Ahh, ok, there is no data in the hole. I will manually move the tracks then.
Thanks!
Which will work fine PROVIDED you don't have any tempo changes, meter/key changes, markers or automation in your project.
These will NOT slide when you slide your clips/tracks
Maybe a feature request is needed then. I come across this regularly enough that it's a pain to deal with. Off to the feature request page then.
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neirbod
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 14:28:06
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Jon BrysonMaybe a feature request is needed then. I come across this regularly enough that it's a pain to deal with. Off to the feature request page then.
Excellent. You could note that prior versions of Sonar did allow this, so it is more of a feature renewal request.
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Jon Bryson
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 14:46:31
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Well, I already had the request in when I saw this, but I did reference this thread.
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 15:00:55
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Clint Swank
Actually, I do this all the time, mostly to get rid of count-ins at the beginning of songs. Just to make sure I'm not hallucinating, I just checked it by deleting a bar in a song and then going back and deleting the resulting hole. Worked perfectly. You have to uncheck "Non-destructive Midi editing" in Preferences>Customization>Editing, I believe.
As far as I know, deleting measures where no track content exists has never worked, and is not affected by the setting of Non-destructive MIDI Editing (though this setting does have some other unusual side-effects). I think there must have been something left over somewhere in the selected time range - possibly on a hidden track - in this case.
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Clint Swank
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 16:18:33
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Yeah, well, I must have the magic Sonar, then, 'cause there was nothing there. Three tracks, one audio, two midi. Deleted bar 5. Left a 1 bar hole. With the same selection, delete special, delete hole, hole gone. (In other words, since I deleted the bar first, leaving a hole, there couldn't have been any info there when I deleted the hole.) Tried the same thing with cut and cut special, same result. However, just to check my theory, I turned non-destructive midi editing back on, and the same operations still worked. So my theory's wrong. But delete hole still works, with, guaranteed, no information in the deleted zone. Thing is, I seem to recall having a similar problem right after installing X3, and unchecking NDME solved it. So...beats me. Divine intervention?
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Jon Bryson
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 16:21:22
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Just tried this again with "non-destructive Midi editing " unchecked to be sure. Still no dice.
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 16:57:13
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Clint Swank
Three tracks, one audio, two midi. Deleted bar 5. Left a 1 bar hole. With the same selection, delete special, delete hole, hole gone.
Okay. I see what's going on here; this is an exceptional condition. If you immediately go to delete again without changing the selection, some internal flag is still set that makes Delete and Cut available. But if you re-select that same region, or try to delete a region that has never had data in it, you'll be out of luck. Since it's often the case that there was never any data in the "hole", or you're coming back to to delete a "hole" some time after having created it by dragging, sliding or deleting, it's more common that you can't get access to the Delete command.
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Jon Bryson
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 17:22:41
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Yep, that one I can replicate. Good call!
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Clint Swank
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 18:29:45
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Ok, right, but if you want to solve the problem, here's how: Bounce to Clips. (That's always the answer, isn't it?) Here's what I did this time. Same tracks, same procedure, except this time I changed the selection and did another delete, then went back to the first selection and tried to delete the hole, and, sure enough, greyed out. But then I bounced to clips, selected the same area and delete special is now available. And you can delete the hole.
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 18:47:34
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Yes, if bounce to clips fills the hole in an audio track with silent audio, that would do the trick. Seems like kind of a drastic solution though, given all the fallout that bounce to clips can have. I think I'd still choose to use Slide or insert some dummy content in the hole to delete.
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Clint Swank
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 18:58:25
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Fallout? From Bounce to Clips? Never had that, either. Enlighten me.
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Kev999
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 19:51:08
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I'm not experiencing any problems with deleting hole and I'm using X2a, so I presume that it's a new bug that needs to be reported.
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 22:13:40
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Clint Swank
Fallout? From Bounce to Clips? Never had that, either. Enlighten me.
- Take lanes flattened and individual clips merged - Groove clips de-grooved - Slip-editing and fades destuctively applied - Clip FX destructively applied - Audiosnap stretching rendered - Forced MIDI Channels destructively applied - ...
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brundlefly
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/23 23:20:12
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Kev999
I'm not experiencing any problems with deleting hole and I'm using X2a, so I presume that it's a new bug that needs to be reported.
Definitely not new, and not really a bug. Here's a thread from 2005 with input from Tech Support: http://forum.cakewalk.com...-Measures-m584611.aspx
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Kev999
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/24 00:37:49
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brundlefly
Kev999
I'm not experiencing any problems with deleting hole and I'm using X2a, so I presume that it's a new bug that needs to be reported.
Definitely not new, and not really a bug. Here's a thread from 2005...
I deleted some empty space in a project a few days ago. There were no audio clips, midi clips or envelope nodes in the section that I selected. It deleted ok. I have backups of the project so I can check it out again. I'll do that tomorrow if I have time.
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sharke
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Re: Ok, So How Do I Cut Bars - Cut Delete Hole Is Greyed Out
2014/01/24 00:54:31
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This should definitely be a lot simpler and intuitive. When I used Pro Tools I got used to being able to just delete empty holes at will without any complications and without any workaround necessary. It just did what it said on the tin, and it was a bit of a shock to realize that Sonar couldn't do the same thing without a lot of faffing about. Seems like a rudimentary action which should just work with a couple of clicks.
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