myrudehand
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Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
Hi. I'm using a Tascam FW-1082 with Sonar 7.2 PE. The Tascam has an input on the back you can switch between guitar/line. It is input 8. However when I look at the available inputs in Sonar I only see the odd ones (ie 1, 3, 5, 7, and S/PDIF L). Does this make sense to anyone? Do I only have the left inputs working? I'm using ASIO and when I look under inputs it says 5 in 2 out. So it seems like I only have half my inputs available. I've seen (in the Amplitube documentation) that you shouldn't connect your guitar to a line input. You should connect it to an instrument input. However since I don't have the instrument input available I've got my guitar going into input 5. It works. Does anyone know the difference between these types of input? Thanks for your help and time! Brian
post edited by myrudehand - 2008/07/16 13:42:03
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DW_Mike
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 13:25:45
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Input #1 = Channel 1 mono, Channel 2 mono, Channel 1 & 2 Stereo.
Input #3 = Channel 3 mono, Channel 4 Mono, Channel 3 & 4 Stereo.
Ans so on.
Mike
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myrudehand
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 13:55:11
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Ohhhhh. So if I have the guitar plugged into line in 8 (on guitar setting) I should choose input 7 RIGHT... I just tried it and it works.
Thank you very much!
Brian
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:33:18
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DW_Mike
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 14:39:22
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Or you could buy a direct box and use any channel. Mike
post edited by chefmike8888 - 2008/07/16 15:02:00
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 22:25:51
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
Yes, and just so you know this is a windows driver constraint. Windows wants to see "pairs". You have to force a choice to work in mono.
best regards,
mike
Can't say for sure that this is a windows thing only because Sonar is the only daw that does this on my machine. I've used Tracktion, Energy XT, FLS, Samplitude 7, Cubase 2, Reaper, and a few others, and Sonar is the only one that uses this convoluted "Input 1 left, Input 1 right" thing. I used those other hosts for years so it was really strange to get used to the way Sonar works. And I do believe that it is sonar. Either that or every other host has figured out how to deal with this the right way. This is something I really wish they would change. They don't need to change the way it works, just the way the inputs are named. I would much rather see "Input 1, Input 2, Input 1 & 2 Stereo" and so on. This would be a good start and at least put sonar on par with the competition in this regard. If the sonar bakers wanted to jump ahead a bit they could allow us to select any of the available mono inputs and independently assign them to L and R of a stereo track.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 22:41:42
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I have already put in a feature request for this. If you guys agree you could put in official feature requests as well. Seems that's the best way to get their attention.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 22:44:22
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And here's the best way to do that: Quoted from: Bill Jackson [Cakewalk] We also provide you with ways to directly involve yourself in the design & development of our products. If you have a great idea for a feature and you’d like to see us implement it, let us know by submitting this form:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/FeatureRequest.asp
If you think you may have found a defect in a Cakewalk program, inform us so we can fix it:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter/
Using these prescribed channels will help us assist you as efficiently as possible. Thanks!
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krizrox
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/16 22:47:32
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It's not a Windows issue.
You can rename the ASIO channels with friendly names that are more meaningful to you.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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DW_Mike
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 00:22:31
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Yeah but the problem with naming it the way it is now, is that say for example I have my bass drum on channel 1 and my snare on channel 2, I can name channel 1 "bass drum" but there's no way to name channel 2 "snare" because it's part of channel 1.
Mike
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DonM
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 06:32:20
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ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
Yeah but the problem with naming it the way it is now, is that say for example I have my bass drum on channel 1 and my snare on channel 2, I can name channel 1 "bass drum" but there's no way to name channel 2 "snare" because it's part of channel 1.
Mike
Aren't you referring to track names now and not input channel names? Obviously they must be independent and naming your hardware inputs with the current instrument source would never be good practice unless you intend to mic an instrument on that channel permanently. I can't imagine a situation where that would happen. -D
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papa2004
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 09:37:17
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ORIGINAL: Superfly76
I have already put in a feature request for this. If you guys agree you could put in official feature requests as well. Seems that's the best way to get their attention.
Just a guess on my part but I would be willing to make a small wager that it's probably too late to suggest they "create" a new feature that hasn't already been developed for the release of SONAR 8...My guess is that for the next two months or so they will be testing and tweaking the product that the "bakers" have pretty much decided IS going to be SONAR 8... I could be wrong (perhaps one of the busy "bakers" will enlighten us on this assumption)... 
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DW_Mike
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 10:33:46
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ORIGINAL: DonM
ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
Yeah but the problem with naming it the way it is now, is that say for example I have my bass drum on channel 1 and my snare on channel 2, I can name channel 1 "bass drum" but there's no way to name channel 2 "snare" because it's part of channel 1.
Mike
Aren't you referring to track names now and not input channel names? Obviously they must be independent and naming your hardware inputs with the current instrument source would never be good practice unless you intend to mic an instrument on that channel permanently. I can't imagine a situation where that would happen.
-D
Actually Don, I have my drum mic's in channels 8 thru 16 on my Onyx 1640 and since most of the time it's just me playing I never really touch them. On occasion I have someone else come to record I just move my mic's to their set but I still leave them in the board on the same channels.. But let me put it this way. What if I had 3 channel strips plugged into channels 1, 2 and 3. I could name #1= UA LA610 and #3= Focusrite but I cant name channel #2. Maybe I'm just over thinking this but it would be nice to go choose an input and have choices 1 thru 16 instead of 1 thru 8 left, right and stereo or 1, 3, 5, 7 etc. My problem isn't so much with the way the choices appear in the track view, it's the way they appear in Options/Audio/Drivers. Let me name channels 1 thru 16 in there separately not in groups. Mike
post edited by chefmike8888 - 2008/07/17 11:12:46
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:33:31
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 12:36:37
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ORIGINAL: papa2004
ORIGINAL: Superfly76
I have already put in a feature request for this. If you guys agree you could put in official feature requests as well. Seems that's the best way to get their attention.
Just a guess on my part but I would be willing to make a small wager that it's probably too late to suggest they "create" a new feature that hasn't already been developed for the release of SONAR 8...My guess is that for the next two months or so they will be testing and tweaking the product that the "bakers" have pretty much decided IS going to be SONAR 8...
I could be wrong (perhaps one of the busy "bakers" will enlighten us on this assumption)...
Yep. I made my FR around December so here's hoping it's in. Right now it would probably be too late for this release but at least it would be in for the next one if it didn't make it into V8. It never hurts to officially ask.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 12:40:50
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
You can name the inputs anything you want (within limitations set in each application) but Windows will always (well at least until they change it) think of the drivers as representing pairs.
best regards,
mike
Sorry man, Gotta call you on that one. That's just not true. It's a Sonar issue, not a windows issue. Every other daw I've used allows independent naming of all input channels, evens and odds. DAWs that I know allow this for sure are: Tracktion Reaper Energy XT FLS Samplitude I own or have owned and used all of these.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 12:44:16
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ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
ORIGINAL: DonM
ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
Yeah but the problem with naming it the way it is now, is that say for example I have my bass drum on channel 1 and my snare on channel 2, I can name channel 1 "bass drum" but there's no way to name channel 2 "snare" because it's part of channel 1.
Mike
Aren't you referring to track names now and not input channel names? Obviously they must be independent and naming your hardware inputs with the current instrument source would never be good practice unless you intend to mic an instrument on that channel permanently. I can't imagine a situation where that would happen.
-D
Actually Don, I have my drum mic's in channels 8 thru 16 on my Onyx 1640 and since most of the time it's just me playing I never really touch them. On occasion I have someone else come to record I just move my mic's to their set but I still leave them in the board on the same channels.. But let me put it this way. What if I had 3 channel strips plugged into channels 1, 2 and 3. I could name #1= UA LA610 and #3= Focusrite but I cant name channel #2. Maybe I'm just over thinking this but it would be nice to go choose an input and have choices 1 thru 16 instead of 1 thru 8 left, right and stereo or 1, 3, 5, 7 etc. My problem isn't so much with the way the choices appear in the track view, it's the way they appear in Options/Audio/Drivers. Let me name channels 1 thru 16 in there separately not in groups.
Mike
I'd encourage you to make a feature request for this. The bakers rarely frequent the forums. Submitting a FR is really easy. You could just copy and paste your text in this thread directly. I have already made an exact FR some time ago but the more people asking, the more it is likely to be taken seriously. See my previous posts for a link to the official FR form.
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DW_Mike
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 12:52:19
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:33:47
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 13:26:07
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I take your point that windows sees them as pairs. My point was that a DAW isn't limited to that paradigm just because windows is. Unless you are using a legacy driver, Sonar is practically accessing your hardware directly anyway. As to crosstalk, I have never had any issues with my Fireface 800. This interface was meant to be used this way. Sonar is the only daw I know that tries to treat everything as stereo. I am more of a traditional RE and do a lot of rock stuff. I rarely ever record a stereo source. I'll often use several mics on my acoustic but I would never want them panned hard right and left.
post edited by Superfly76 - 2008/07/17 13:51:13
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:34:01
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papa2004
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 15:38:10
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ORIGINAL: Superfly76
ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
You can name the inputs anything you want (within limitations set in each application) but Windows will always (well at least until they change it) think of the drivers as representing pairs.
best regards,
mike
Sorry man,
Gotta call you on that one. That's just not true. It's a Sonar issue, not a windows issue. Every other daw I've used allows independent naming of all input channels, evens and odds.
DAWs that I know allow this for sure are:
Tracktion
Reaper
Energy XT
FLS
Samplitude
I own or have owned and used all of these.
Funny, out of curiousity I "tested" it in Tracktion, Cubase and Adobe Audition...Basically the same as in SONAR...Outputs in "pairs"...
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 15:56:05
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It's a Sonar issue, not a windows issue. No, Its the way the drivers for your sound card were written for ASIO and WDM modes. I really dont see a big deal on choosing 1 left or 1 right or 3 left or 3 right. Its nothing but a mouse click. I know what they mean and what channel they go to. I dont see the fuss, but my way isnt everyone's way. to reiterate, its NOT a Sonar issue. Its your sound cards driver issue and a windows issue with the way WDM and ASIO modes are displayed. Thank you and piece be with you...  Cj
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 19:31:04
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ORIGINAL: CJaysMusic
It's a Sonar issue, not a windows issue.
No, Its the way the drivers for your sound card were written for ASIO and WDM modes. I really dont see a big deal on choosing 1 left or 1 right or 3 left or 3 right. Its nothing but a mouse click. I know what they mean and what channel they go to.
I dont see the fuss, but my way isnt everyone's way.
That's what most sonar users say, "Get used to it". I have gotten used to it. The OP reminded me of my early frustrations trying to find the setting to enable independent renaming of channels. I think a lot of you guys have been using sonar so long that you've forgotten what it's like to come at it fresh. For anyone coming from a hardware background or any other major DAW The inability to rename each channel independently is a real head-scratcher. It may be fine of you only have like 8 inputs or something, but it gets really messy when you have 28 inputs like I have. I have also started using the workaround of track templates too. It just seems like a huge workaround for something that is bog standard on my other daws.
to reiterate, its NOT a Sonar issue. Its your sound cards driver issue and a windows issue with the way WDM and ASIO modes are displayed. Thank you and piece be with you...
Cj
It's also not my soundcard issue either because as I said earlier, all those other daws allow independent naming of all channels. This is on the exact same computer, with the exact same audio interface. I may have only been using sonar for under a year but I have been doing audio work for a long time. Sonar is the only daw that has this behavior of all the daws I've used.
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Lay In Wait
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 20:06:28
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I made Track Templates of all 24 hardware inputs on my system, which totally avoids the 1,3,5,7...... horror show, which is exactly what it looks like with that many inputs. Once they are made templates in Sonar, it is possible to name and categorize any way you like. Ive never looked back.
Insert- Insert from Track template- Now pick one that you have named. Too easy.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 22:49:58
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ORIGINAL: papa2004
Funny, out of curiousity I "tested" it in Tracktion, Cubase and Adobe Audition...Basically the same as in SONAR...Outputs in "pairs"...
I am talking about inputs not outputs. Tracktion does default to stereo pairs on the input but you have the option of separating them into mono inputs. And furthermore, the issue is not whether or not there are stereo pairs, the issue is that Sonar doesn't allow the renaming of discrete inputs, whereas Tracktion and others do. I'll spell it out for you: Say I have my Joemeek VC3 preamp running into input 1 on my FireFace and a single channel of my DBX compressor going into input 2 on the Fireface. In Tracktion I can seperate the stereo pairs and rename input 1 and input 2 independently. I could rename input 1 to 1 Joemeek and input to to DBX if I wanted to. I used Tracktion for years but switched primarily to sonar because of better quad core support. I have a lot of outboard gear and I have each individual input renamed to the preamp, comp, or other piece of gear going into that input. I have no issue with having stereo pairs. Right now the actual implementation in Sonar works. What we are asking for here is the ability to rename every input, not just the pairs, which is what Sonar is limited to. I get a headache trying to remember that input 16 on my fireface is actually called input 15 right. I struggle with left and right anyway because of my Attention Deficit Disorder. This unnecessarily breaks my creative flow when I need to lay down a track fast. I have done the workaround and saved track templates as others have asked. I understand and empathize with the OP thought that this wouldn't be necessary if the Devs agreed. I am definitely not a Sonar hater here. I love Sonar and have no need to switch. I think that this would just make Sonar that much better for those coming into it for the first time or switching from another host. It would save all those coming here trying to figure out why they only see input 1, 3, 5, 7, etc... Would also save us explaining all of our workarounds and justifying why it is not so hard once you get used to it. Would also save us from trying to blame it on Windows or soundcards (even rock solid expensive ones like RME). I know Sonar isn't perfect, no DAW is. I just want to do my part to make it that much better.
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Superfly76
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 22:52:11
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ORIGINAL: Lay In Wait
I made Track Templates of all 24 hardware inputs on my system, which totally avoids the 1,3,5,7...... horror show, which is exactly what it looks like with that many inputs. Once they are made templates in Sonar, it is possible to name and categorize any way you like. Ive never looked back.
Insert- Insert from Track template- Now pick one that you have named. Too easy.
I would also encourage you to make a FR for this as well, so that new users can avoid the "1,3,5,7...... horror show" all together.
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bitman
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/17 23:32:36
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
Yes, and just so you know this is a windows driver constraint. Windows wants to see "pairs". You have to force a choice to work in mono.
best regards,
mike
You would have thought MS and or Cakewalk would have addressed this by now. It's real ****ed.
post edited by bitman - 2008/07/18 00:00:34
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WDI
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/18 02:57:09
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I'd have to agree with Superfly76. In our studio we record with analog gear mostly but on occation for convienience we record with the DAW using Sonar. The other guy who runs the studio is mostly old school analog mixer to tape. He has the hardest time setting up inputs in Sonar because he is use to each input as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 etc not 1left 2 right 12stereo etc. Yes you can get used to it, but it really doesn't make sense. It seems like other people new to Sonar have the same problem. It seems like every so often someone is posting on this forum who is confused about setting up inputs in Sonar because of this issue. When I upgraded from Sonar 4 to 7 one feature I was excited about was input renaming. I don't even use it because they fell short by forcing you to rename in pairs. I'll put my request in for a change. Thanks for the links Superfly76, I'll have to bookmark those.
post edited by WDI - 2008/07/18 03:30:14
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DonM
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RE: Only see inputs 1, 3, 5, 7 Where are the even ones?
2008/07/18 06:22:11
(permalink)
Agreed on the Track Template approach - and it contains my original suggestion where the track names are more important than the input names. As the OP indicated if you rarely change the routing of instrument to channel input naming is less relevant than track naming. WRT pairing living in either the App or OS I think it actually could be both in that if the OS treated I/O in pairs some Apps could remap for conveniences as mentioned - it wouldn't be too hard. For me this was a problem for one week back in 2003. Not to dismiss the OP but once I figured it out it really hasn't made any difference to me in any of the reasonably complex routing situations I have faced in the studio and out on location. Again friendly names and templates eliminated the confusion for me.
-D
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