Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat?

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joden
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2018/10/20 02:40:25 (permalink)

Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat?

I am asking as I am seriously considering deleting everything Bandlab and Platinum (well Bandlab won't run - that's another issue) and I'm still not sure where it is all going. I have all the installation files plus additional software libraries, so having the resources already is no issue.
 
I just want to gauge opinions on what is the most stable and complete version Sonar pre Bandlab and Platinum (subscription model)
 
Thanks
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    sock monkey
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 03:58:14 (permalink)
    My X3 e was pretty good over all. I mostly would get random freeze ups after saving and trying to close a project. Very rare that it happened and it was always a project with a 32 bit plug in. 
    I also found that free version of Home Studio was very solid. Don't think that deal is still around, there was a link in the deals forum but that was last Dec. 
    Defiantly to avoid any before that until you get back to 8.5 which was also a very stable version. 
    The first X versions were noted as having many issues and these forms were alive with a lot of complaints back then. 

    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
    Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.   
      
    #2
    sock monkey
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 04:02:53 (permalink)
    Here found it http://forum.cakewalk.com/Free-copy-of-Home-Studio-m3718860.aspx
     
    Seems to work still but it told me I had already downloaded it, so I think it will work for anyone who didn;t grab it yet. 

    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
    Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.   
      
    #3
    mettelus
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 05:08:02 (permalink)
    If you step too far backward, some free plugins are locked to Platinum, so you will lose them. If you go before X3, you will also lose ARA and VST3 support. Another "break point" was when Aux Tracks/Patch Points were introduced... and cwps containing those cannot be opened by any SONAR prior to their introduction (and I forget which version that was).
     
    For Platinum versions, I stopped after the first year and still have Manchester 2 installed. A lot of the meat that came with Platinum was in that version and was stable for me.
     
    Out of curiosity, why consider backing out prior to SPLAT?

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #4
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 11:23:14 (permalink)
    Splat works fine for me...very few issues. For the most part, its stuff I do, like using my graphics tablet and accidentally making it scroll ad- infinitum. I couldn't actually tell you when my last proper crash was.

    Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 14:18:12 (permalink)
    8.5 if "stable" is the primary criterion, X3 if "complete" is. However, 8.5 will run many of the external components that were included with later versions, such as the SI instruments.
     
    The biggest loss vs. current features would be ARA. But ARA is more about convenience and ease of use than actually defining what you can or cannot do. I was using Melodyne long before ARA. It was just more of a hassle. 
     
    You'd also lose VST3 support, but that's trivial. Outside of the Steinberg/Yamaha microcosm, there are almost no third-party plugins that are exclusively VST3. Then there's ProChannel, but again that doesn't cost you any capabilities. Somehow, we all managed to EQ and compress stuff just fine pre-ProChannel.
     
    Personally, despite having been a longtime 8.5 holdout who skipped over the entire X series, I'd never go back. CbB has 99.999% of every past feature I've ever cared about.  I'd be curious to know why CbB doesn't work for you.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #6
    bitman
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 14:43:48 (permalink)
    8.5
    #7
    gmp
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 15:19:26 (permalink)
    8.5.3.
     
    If I were you I'd save an image file of your C drive using Macrium Free and then try reinstalling your OS from scratch using the install CD. You can create your own install Win 10 CD. CbB is the most stable version of all for me.
     
    This seems drastic. A solution may not be as far off as you think. I wish you luck
     

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
    #8
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 16:26:10 (permalink)
    I was a long holdout on 8.5 as the forum here seemed to be alive with issues when X1 and then X2 were alive.
    I bought a Roland Keyboard that came with X1 LE and never really liked it or used it, but then they sent me a upgrade deal for X3 studio for only $99 so I grabbed it and found it was now a stable version of Cakewalk and have never gone back to 8.5 since.  
    One deal leads to another and I then grabbed Professional and later Splat and now very happy with CbB.
     
    As said there are new features that I could never be without now.
    Defiantly addicted to the simplicity of using Pro Channel for basic channel strip tasks.
    Defiantly could not live without being able to convert a Audio Bass track into MIDI.
    Don't use it much but Drum Replacer was also an asset for me. 
    The new way Piano roll works and all those pretty colours too.
    I think starting around Spring this year I have never had any weirdness or crashes using what ever the latest version is. I've even returned to using a few 32 bit VST's without issue now.
    I do think the focus has been on making Cakewalk stable and they seem to be getting this right ( finally).

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    #9
    joden
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 16:35:07 (permalink)
    Thanks guys for all the answers...the current version, for me and my system, is glitchy takes about 189 seconds to load (and that's a totally blank project) - constantly drops audio, on occasion has "jittery" MIDI among other things, nothing catastrophic, but added together make it a bit annoying. And no the latest thing with the Bandlab Assistant refusing to operate correctly, ergo no updates - it got me thinking that I might be better off just going back to the best version prior to Bandlab taking over.
     
    I'll have a think on it again, as it would be a retrograde step but maybe, juts maybe it will be more reliable....again thanks for the input.
    #10
    bitflipper
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 18:00:05 (permalink)
    joden, I would counsel you to not rush toward such a drastic step. At least not as Plan A. If you can get CbB up and running you'll be happier in the end. If any version of SONAR has worked for you on that system, then getting CbB going is definitely do-able.
     
    Problems such as long load times and jitter are usually caused by factors outside the DAW, even if they sometimes seem to be alleviated by switching to a different DAW (which usually comes down to configuration differences rather than the software itself).
     
    Make sure, for example, that you're not rescanning plugins every time you start up. All it takes is one plugin that insists on calling home to the mothership to make sure you're not a thief, and a scan can be slowed to a crawl. 


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    Anderton
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 18:03:42 (permalink)
    Do you have the latest BandLab Assistant?
    Is CbB up to date?
     
    CbB has been way more stable for me than any previous version.
     
    A bigger question is whether Windows is up to date. Drivers and software are always "chasing" Windows. I had a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard become so erratic I assumed they were broken. Also, I was getting BSODs on a regular basis, particularly when going online. I ran a MemTest and it was fine but when I ran a Windows troubleshooter, it said there was a hardware problem and I needed to contact the manufacturer.
     
    Not so! There had been a Windows update. I went to the Intel Driver and Support Assistant, downloaded the latest Bluetooth and Wireless drivers, and everything was fine. It's a pain in the butt to keep everything updated, but when EVERYTHING is updated, stuff works. When only some stuff is updated...colorful language is in the forecast.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #12
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 18:10:11 (permalink)
    I agree, you best move is to figure out why you are having issues. Obviously most people are not, so it will not be the software but your OS or even something hardware wise.
    Maybe a good idea would be to start a new thread and ask for over all help making CbB work the way you want it to work.
     
    Don't be afraid to make a detailed list of your system and as much information as possible. We like a challenge!

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    #13
    paulo
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 19:10:33 (permalink)
    As others have said I can't see that the cakewalk software is really the problem.  More knowledgeable folks than me will be more than happy to guide you through making it work on your system. You already have Bitflipper's attention so you're in very good hands if you decide to go for it and troubleshoot the MF.
     
    WRT the versions...... I can't speak for the Bandlab version as I haven't yet felt the need to install it, but like many I was happy to sit back and watch the X-series launch crash and burn safe in my 8.5 world, but ARA in X3 finally sucked me in and once the dark theme came along in Platinum I bit on that and was a happy camper again. 8.53 is still installed and occasionally I open it just to see. I loved it at the time, but couldn't go back now.
     
    When CW was looking for all the world like a dead duck my plan was to revert to X3 if the worst had ever come to the worst (no CCC for Platinum) and suck up the acres of grey again as it still seemed preferable to the alternative DAW's that I tried
    #14
    joden
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 19:22:37 (permalink)
    In response to the latest version questions - as I have posted elsewhere, Bandlab assistant is not working on my system. It is the latest version (just d/l it three separate times, with three separate full uninstalls and re-installs, tried creating a  new user with different email , nothing. Even though I can quite easily log in to my account on the Bandlab webpage), so the answer to that question is no as I cannot d/l it to install it.
     
    I have all the Platinum versions before B day, I am still totally unconvinced by this whole Bandlab and Bandlab assistant scene....and I don't dispute you guys have no issues, but on this system I am having nowhere near the reliability of the original Cakewalk run/owned Platinum Sonar.
    #15
    Whistlekiller
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 19:32:27 (permalink)
    It must be the case that if CbB is able to run OK (which it does for me and judging by the relative paucity of complaints by people on here and the various Facebook groups, for most others also) the only logical explanation for the OP's problems have to lie with his/her system. I realise it's a bit of a pain but it's worth a clean rebuild and CbB installation (without altering any settings) to rule out anything awkward that may have crept in software wise. If it still causes problems then it's likely a hardware thing. I can't accept that CbB is flakey otherwise it would manifest itself badly for everybody which is clearly not the case.

    X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
    #16
    mettelus
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 19:32:58 (permalink)
    There was a post long ago about boot up times and Noel chimed in on how SONAR loads. What triggered on me was a 32 to 64 bit rewire bridge someone had mentioned. It works, but is poison and never used. What it did do was make load times on a 2600K go from 1.5 seconds to 40 seconds. You could easily have installed something that is triggering your situation in a similar way. Rewire is only one of the loaded items, but I forget the rest of Noel's post.

    Worst case (last resort)... When things go ballistic and is hard to find solutions is when I back up data files and reload the OS from scratch (not had to reload Win10 yet since I image monthly and will only loads things I use, not just because I have them). A lot of plugins and utilities went into the "forget you ever saw them" bin. The nicety of images is you can restore to a stable state without all the re-installing, and is a nice "rollback" strategy.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #17
    bitflipper
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 19:36:18 (permalink)
    If the problem is that you cannot download the installer, that needn't be a showstopper. It's only 50Kb in size; I'd be happy to email it to you.
    [EDIT] Never mind, I just read your thread about issues with the installer, in which you said that downloading it wasn't the problem, running it was. I've not seen the behavior you described, but my guess would be a version mismatch with some dependency, such as the C++ runtime libraries.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #18
    joden
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/20 21:25:14 (permalink)
    yeah guys, thanks. I suspect that is the issue (with Blb)...re system, hmmm not too sure as it is optimised for audio/midi work, afaik drivers are all clean, and again afaik (unless there is something hidden), everything I use is 64bit (outside the few 32bit plugins, none of which are part of the basic load template, or many projects for that matter).........about the only thing I can say is I have none of said issues with either Cubase AI (came with the MODX) or Reaper, from the little I have worked with them. Which is why I was thinking it is some weird mismatch between my system, Sonar and Bandlab.
     
    I don't really want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" but it is sooo frustrating, time and again, and usually after a long series of edits hahaha!,  it just locks up out of the blue and sometimes a Sonar restart works and others it's a PC reboot that is needed.
     
    I am happy to stick with it, if only I could find the root cause.
     
    The Bandlab issue is just the latest, sorta kinda the "straw" .
    #19
    gmp
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/21 03:46:51 (permalink)
    Joden, I think many users around here will agree that every OS install no matter how careful you are will likely get corrupted by some unknown OS glitch at time goes on.
     
     It may be a corrupted file, or corrupted setting, or something else or a faulty Win update. When that happens you can bang your head against the wall and try hours worth of troubleshooting or you can do the easy fix by reverting back to an image of your C drive when everything was working fine.
     
    When I get a new computer or install my OS from scratch. The first thing I do is make an image file, because then you can always go back to that instead of reinstalling from scratch. 
     
    In your case the first thing I'd do after a clean install is to install all current Win updates, and update main drivers like video card, install your audio interface and then CbB and see if it's behaving ok. 
     
    My guess is that it would be. Each time you add programs, hardware, FX, etc make an image file. When you run into problems you can always go back a few steps and build it back up to determine where the problem or incompatibility is. 
     
    Never save audio files, data, or sound libraries on your OS drive. Keep it lean, so when you revert back to an earlier image you don't lose any data only OS and programs.
     
    I my opinion anyone that wants a stable problem free DAW should rely on image files. They've saved my butt numerous times. Carefully build up your DAW in steps.

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
    #20
    stratman70
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/21 04:18:04 (permalink)
    The last Splat version 102017 I believe is stable for most folks afaik. So if you are having issues with something that the majority of folks aren't why would you think going back even further would help? 
    I agree about figuring out, with the help he gurus on here what the issues are and how to deal with them.
    Boy, things like rip edit I could not do without anymore.
    I have the newest CWBL installed but I use Splat 99.999% of the time...............

     
     
    #21
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Opinons sought on most complete and stable Sonar version before Splat? 2018/10/21 09:47:45 (permalink)
    It might be useful to list your entire computer spec.
     
    Sometimes it's possible to at least point you in the right direction by just looking at your hardware/software spec

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #22
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