NYSR
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PACE again
I decided for curiosity sake to install the M- powered Pro Tools demo since I had it on CD. When installation was complete I was stunned and angered to see a dialog box informing me to reboot in order to install the TPkd driver.
I recognised the name of the driver from years past. In 2001, PACE anti piracy toasted one of my systems after changing a hard drive and another system after upgrading to Windows XP. Both systems were so damaged even after availing myself of customer support that it required a wiping clean and re install of everything. I vowed back then that never again would I ever use any software protected by the PACE method and have kept true to my word ever since.
I was deeply angered back then as were several other Cakewalk users who had installed a Cakewalk compatible plug in that used the software version of PACE. The President of PACE Anti Piracy even paid a visit to the Cakewalk forums back in 2001 and discussed with us what he had hoped would be a Public Relations damage control visit.
It did not work out quite as well as he had planned as several of us expressed a strong dislike of the PACE methodology and its history.
But for those of you who boycott the software version of PACE, (The dongle version is not subject to the same problems) if you did not already know be aware, that the Pro Tools Demo uses it. Thankfully, rather than reboot, I did a system restore. Any software company that hides root kits or protection schemes without informing you prior to installation ought to be given a great deal of flack. THose of us seeking to keep our systems running smoothly need to know what we are getting into when installing software.
I appreciate the position Cakewalk has had over the years. Many of us loyal customers refuse to load pirated software on our computers and run studios that are fully above board. We appreciate Cakewalk's commitment to a protection method that does not interfere with the user's computer at the system level.
Cakewalk customer since Apprentice version 1, PreSonus 16.4.2 ai, 3.5 gHz i7
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bbach
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/17 21:24:43
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Dave Modisette
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 09:50:47
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Atta boy, Bob.
I am also one who had to wipe a hard drive and reinstall everything until I finally found that the problem resurfaced again after installing Autotune. Since then, I have never purchased or installed software using that particular anti-piracy scheme. Challenge and response is perfectly acceptable to me but not a low level driver keeping tabs on my every move.
My trust and support goes out to companies that also show a reasonable amount of trust to their customers.
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keith
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 09:57:04
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ORIGINAL: NYSR
I appreciate the position Cakewalk has had over the years. Many of us loyal customers refuse to load pirated software on our computers and run studios that are fully above board. We appreciate Cakewalk's commitment to a protection method that does not interfere with the user's computer at the system level. Hear, hear! Well said, and I agree 101%...
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Fog
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:06:21
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NYSR, if it says "demo" on the disk.. I rarely load it up.. I have that LE disk also.. I got it with my 1010LT card is memory serves errmm it's on a number of things, if memory serves proteus vx uses it or it's the other one UVI?.. my memory is really bad. thing is the protools LE thing is nothing to do with cake, I wasn't even aware cake used it on anything they made to be honest. Although I did see the folder for it, I'm pretty sure it came later. Hasn't caused me issues so I let it be to be honest.
post edited by Fog - 2008/12/18 10:07:07
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plectrumpusher
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:07:07
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Here , Here!!,
I have to have synchrosoft dongle because I must have Wave Lab , but thats it !!! I recently decided against many products from vendors like PSP and Brainworks because I'm not going to install I-Lok also ...... I guess they will stay in buisness , but you would I magine that the lower volume of these products due to lost potential customers such as myself is why some of there stuff is a bit pricey!
I might also add that LinPlug ( makers of CronoX3 and Saxlab ) just recently reverted to s/n because so many of there cutomers complained about the issues surrounding usb keys , so it is more that possible that if we continue to avoid vendors who try to hoist these thing on us , that we can ban them from existance .
Don't punish honest customers please!
If you haven't got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart.......Then you are just an old sour fart!!
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Fog
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:10:27
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plectrumpusher, sychrosoft are owned by Yamaha , who owns Steinberg.. or they are in the middle of a deal sorting it..
I only have my dongle for cubase and THATS it. I prefer the way NI did their protection if I had to choose one, but even then it should be based solely on the system ID as if you have a dual boot ya have to authorise it twice for the same pc. (which I didn't want to do)
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jb
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:32:42
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Thanks for the heads up; glad i have a couple of iloks.
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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Storm
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:37:11
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lazarous
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 10:45:45
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Here here! I agree completely. Cake ROCKS.
Corey
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koolkeys
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 13:02:01
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PACE is much better than it used to be. The FACT remains that it is the most widely used protection scheme in professional circles. Thousands upon thousands of customers use it every day without issue. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's also not as bad as it used to be.
By the way, these days if you install the drivers PROPERLY, then you can also fully uninstall them. If you are not sure you installed them properly, download the latest installer and install it, then use the official uninstaller in the add/remove programs.
I prefer serial numbers and the Cakewalk method. I don't think anyone could say that PACE is better. But it sure does work fine for the large majority. I wouldn't be TOO worried if it gets on your system because it's fine.
Now, don't flame me too hard for having a differing opinion. But there IS some merit to my opinion. Yours may just not be the same as mine, and I'm cool with that.
Brent
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inmazevo
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 13:10:19
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No flames, but:
The tolerance (backed with purchases = money) is the reason why we have:
- intrusive copy protections schemes
- poor patching schedules
- paid fixes in the guise of "upgrade"
- etc.
It's fine that you feel the way you do, koolkeys. Everybody has an opinion, but it still shocks me how much software companies get away with over companies that sell "real" products (read: tangible, touchable products). People seem to be willing to put up with almost anything.
I actually just decided against getting the 2-for-1 Rob Papen deal because of their use of synchrosoft (which I've had issues with in the past). Emailed them and explained why. Hope they'll switch to something that doesn't install a "service" (right: a service) to continue working.
I'm way past done with copy protection schemes that could (even if unlikely) cause issues on my perfectly running machine.
There are alternatives for virtually everything that has this type of thing, and they work just fine for my needs.
Respectfully (no flames, I promise),
- zevo
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koolkeys
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/18 13:21:33
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Absolutely respectfully. I have no problem with those who disagree. I personally find there are some products I use that use copy protection that have no equal. Also, due to my jobs, I use lots of software that use these protections on multiple machines, all without issue.
It's not that I don't understand the arguments against it. I do. As a co-editor of ProRec.com, I'm aware of a very popular anti-PACE article that we have on our site. But I have just chosen to use it because for me, it's worth it. I have iLok, Syncrosoft, and WIBU Codemeter dongles currently, all with no issues so far. But I'm personally OK with them and have decided not to crusade against it because I have better use of my time.
So no problems on the disagreement. I'm 100% cool with that!
Brent
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MarlboroMan23
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 00:23:49
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ORIGINAL: koolkeys
PACE is much better than it used to be. The FACT remains that it is the most widely used protection scheme in professional circles. Thousands upon thousands of customers use it every day without issue. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's also not as bad as it used to be.
By the way, these days if you install the drivers PROPERLY, then you can also fully uninstall them. If you are not sure you installed them properly, download the latest installer and install it, then use the official uninstaller in the add/remove programs.
I prefer serial numbers and the Cakewalk method. I don't think anyone could say that PACE is better. But it sure does work fine for the large majority. I wouldn't be TOO worried if it gets on your system because it's fine.
Now, don't flame me too hard for having a differing opinion. But there IS some merit to my opinion. Yours may just not be the same as mine, and I'm cool with that.
Brent
I'm sorry I must flame you. I doubt you are who you say you are and I believe you are an agent of PACE sent to this forum to spread disinformation. Drink the Kool-Aid kids, it's yummy. ORIGINAL: plectrumpusher
Here , Here!!,
I have to have synchrosoft dongle because I must have Wave Lab , but thats it !!! I recently decided against many products from vendors like PSP and Brainworks because I'm not going to install I-Lok also ...... I guess they will stay in buisness , but you would I magine that the lower volume of these products due to lost potential customers such as myself is why some of there stuff is a bit pricey!
Same here. I passed on the Don't Crack Nomad Factory Producer Pack Sale and PACE was a part of that decision.
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dbmusic
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 02:46:01
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No PACE. No I-Lok. No dongles. Not ever!
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cliffsp8
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 07:02:33
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I'm with Koolkeys here.
iLok is necessary for SoundToys plugs (fabulous) and EWQLSO Play version and I wouldn't be without them. Also PACE drivers needed for StereoRoom reverb - again wouldn't be without it.
AFAIK I've never had any problems so I think it must be a more robust product these days.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have no protection scheme. But given that most of what we buy has some form of protection, the iLok system doesn't seem to be any more hassle than the NI or IK versions of challenge response, for instance.
Also I'm considering getting the M-Powered version of PT for compatability purposes, and I have the demo version of that loaded too. Again, no problems so far.
YMMV
Cliff
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jackn2mpu
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 07:47:44
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There are 2 types of Pace users - those that have had problems, and those that will.
It's this whole Pace/iLok type of cp that's keeping me from upgrading past the initial version of Groove Agent, keeping me from buying more PSP stuff and so on.
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jb
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 08:56:16
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ORIGINAL: jackn2mpu
There are 2 types of Pace users - those that have had problems, and those that will.
That's so true but of course you could say that about almost anything we use; "There are 2 types of Sonar users- those that have problems and those that will," "There are 2 kinds of computer users ...," 2 kinds of auto owners. homeowners, what have you, if you need a pace protected product you'll use it, if not, you won't, but the level of self-righteous indignation on this board is truly amazing.
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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papa2004
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 09:13:51
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...if you need a pace protected product you'll use it, if not, you won't, but the level of self-righteous indignation on this board is truly amazing. Call me self-righteous if you must...I'm an experienced studio engineer...I have a plethora of outboard gear...I also have a lot of plugins that aren't PACE or i-Lok dependent...I can, with a little effort, reproduce any "sound" that the copy-protected devices achieve...Many of us (veteran engineers) were limited to begin with...We found ways to deal with the tools we had available... 
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jb
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 09:19:21
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Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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Fog
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 09:51:38
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ORIGINAL: koolkeys
By the way, these days if you install the drivers PROPERLY, then you can also fully uninstall them. If you are not sure you installed them properly, download the latest installer and install it, then use the official uninstaller in the add/remove programs.
in an ideal world that would be true.. BUT if that was the case ccleaner would be obsolete http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/ things do leave rubbish behind in the registry alas.
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Bonzos Ghost
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/19 16:05:13
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ORIGINAL: Fog
if memory serves proteus vx uses it or it's the other one UVI?.. my memory is really bad.
Proteus VX doesn't have PACE. UVI does.
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Paul Russell
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RE: PACE again
2008/12/20 01:01:00
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If you want the best sounds, you join the pros and get an iLok. It's a fact of life.
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lazarous
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 14:21:24
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If you want the best sounds, you join the pros and get an iLok. It's a fact of life. No, it's not a fact of life. I refuse to settle for some overbearing and intrusive copy protection scheme, like Pace or iLok. I vote with my dollars, and buy from companies like Cakewalk. If enough people refuse to provide additional income to companies utilizing these abusive copy protections, they wise up, or go under. Either way, it's a win for the consumer. Accepting mediocrity is just plain silly, to me. Corey
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inmazevo
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 15:00:19
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Funny little snippet (well, not really): I've been using a Focusrite Saffire for a while now, but never bothered to install the plug-in suite that came with it. Last night I figured, why not? So, I installed the plug-in suite and fired up the interface to check them out, and was immediately greeted with a screen prompt saying I didn't have a necessary prerequisite to use the plug-ins. It gave a button that said something about going to get the required bit, so I clicked it, and......................................................... IT TOOK ME TO THE PACE SITE!! Hehehe. No thanks. That's a bit strange to me. I can install the suite, and decline the PACE bit, and still use the DSP plug-ins... the PACE part is for the (interestingly named) value-added plug-ins. It would have been nice to have an installer that lets me decide to only install the non-PACE plug-ins, but that's not the deal. Disappointing. I suppose there's not harm done if I leave them installed, but not PACE'd, but who knows. I haven't tried it yet. I'm currently of the opinion that since I've been fine without the DSP plug-ins this far, so I'll likely restore a backup of the machine, and skip the whole suite. I'm not interested in taking a chance for system instability just because Focusrite uses PACE for a "value added" plug-in suite probably worth all of $50. Stupid. At least if you're going to protect something... protect something worth money. Seems like the "pros use pace stuff" argument breaks down at such low-cost situations as this. And, sadly, Focusrite is now on my list of "won't buy again" equipment. - zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2009/01/02 15:05:25
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AT
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 16:24:21
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I've never had a real problem with the iLok and I have several programs from Nomad etc. It was a **** to get it loaded and secured, but everything runs fine. I certainly don't prefer it (Cake rules) and was initially wary since I've heard all the horror stories, but after checking with people I know they didn't have any problems either.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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DonM
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 20:46:49
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Agreed.
I don't know if you saw my thread about PT paranoia regarding their install instructions .... I am very nervous about their nervousness!
-D
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zungle
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 22:14:29
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I passed on the Don't Crack Nomad Factory Producer Pack Sale and PACE was a part of that decision.
Right On.... I was severely disappointed when I found the PACE scheme in the Nomad Demos........I won't even give their products a second look.
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mose
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/02 22:58:09
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ORIGINAL: cliffsp8
iLok is necessary for SoundToys plugs (fabulous) and EWQLSO Play version That's why I didn't upgrade to the PLAY version, and I sent them a message letting them know that. It's unfortunate that they feel it is necessary to go that route. Perhaps it was the best decision for them, but it's not something I want.
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koolbass
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RE: PACE again
2009/01/03 00:33:31
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No i-lok here ... but I'm a BIG Cake fan, and that's one of the BIG reasons.
Cheers, Lance "koolbass" Martin Sonar Platinum, Sound Forge Pro 12, ADK built audio computer: Intel 8 core i7 Haswell-E overclocked 4.2GHz; 32 Gig DDR4/2666 ram; Corsair 850W power; Windows Pro 10 x64; Geforce GTX 980 video w/4 monitors (Acer 27" touch screen/primary); 3 Seagate drives - OS, audio, samples, 2 TB external USB3 bkup drive; RME MADIface XT; Ferrofish A16 MKII ADDA; Lucid GenX 6-96 clock www.BoogieHouseMusic.com
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