I'm gonna hear one more person try to sell me on how you can easily shift-click to select an envelope... But that's HARDER than before... I used to simply DO it...

...and now I mostly can't even see them to pick randomly and then switch to another and another until I find what I'm looking for. The color choices are horrible... and they get thinner when not active making it even HARDER to see...

I can't change the color of each track/clip everytime I set an envelope... that's crazy! It's gotta work or not... It was fine the way it was... this has become a nightmare and if it doesn't change may well be one of the reasons I leave the Sonar fold... As much as I've loved it these issues have become ridiculous and I'm tired of ranting insterad of working... I've never been thru anything like this with cakewalk before and they don't seem to be acknowledging these issues...

I don't know how anyone likes this new approach.. I hope they will get rid of the stupid edit filter which has made such a mess of envelopes... but as I'm guessing they think this is good, maybe they'll at least fix it FAST and make it somehow workable... But that may not save them from losing customers such as myself...

I'm lost as I don't know a software that comes close to 8.5.3... Especially NOT X1... so I don't know what I'll do... But this is doing noithing but make me angry and unhappy...

I'm currently working on the last piece I started in X1 and it will be the last piece I work on in X1 unless they fix this mess!!!!! ...and I will continue to have my clients stay with 8.5.3 and not upgrade.... and I will NOT upgrade to X2 unless I see/hear that these issues have been resolved... so while I might not control a noticable percentage of their' sales, those I do have sway over have refrained and will refrain... Due to my anger about all this, many are even considering changing to another software now so as not to get lost in the shuffle... I can support them anyway so it's not gonna hurt my pocket

...and NO NO NO to more attempts at making me like this! It is very bad for me and I will not continue to use this software....

I'm exhausted from all the ranting I've had to do with this release.... and exhausted from the huge number of hours of anger and frustration this program is currently giving me...

I do NOT want lanes and that will drive me away even faster!!!

I better stop now as my anger is boiling and I'm about to say many nasty things I know I'll regret....

Keni-The-Angry!

roughly


This one of the fixes i was praying for was just "DISABLE EDIT FILTERS" and un-grey the screen ...  

Wouldn't that be TOO wonderful!

One fix like that would go a long way to restoring my faith in Cakewalk (which is right now very shattered at best).

I just can't express how much this release has disturbed me.

Keni

I don't know, I think Keni's perfectly justified in relaying his opinion and trying to shed light on these issues so that everyone who's new to Sonar can see what the possibilities are; so the veterans new only to X1 (who may not have had the opportunity to test everything out yet) can see where the differences are, and so Cakewalk can see where their long-time income demographic is hoping to go.  Maybe this following statement is conjecture, but it seems to me that with X1, they (read: "Roland"?) are trying to expand their demographic (get new customers) by making Sonar more like certain other programs that operate this way (PT, for example), but really, isn't this just flooding the market with "6 one way, half a dozen the other" programs?  Keep what makes you stand out from the crowd!!!  If you want to add additional OPTIONS to be competitive, fine.  But don't throw out the old and jump off a bridge just cuz your rival software did it.  Listen to the bulk of your demographic.   ...In order for them to do that, we need to speak up.
 
I completely agree with Keni on all points.  I've been using Cakewalk since Pro Audio 6, and I LOVED the fact that from Sonar 1 up until X1 we didn't have to perform other keystrokes, mouse clicks, or any other workaround to get done what we needed to.  One of the reasons that I HATE certain competitor softwares is because of this "Edit Filter" type B.S.  It really WAS much quicker not to have any filter, and just allow all operations at any time.  I mean, c'mon - wasn't that more of a "Smart Tool" than now?  ...Shift+right click, then make adjustments, or move the mouse all the way to the left side of the screen to adjust the Edit Filter, then back over to the other side to select the envelope (after you can find which one it is), then start moving the envelope...  What the hell kind of workflow is THAT???  Workflow was one of Sonar's main selling points before, and quite frankly, a MAJOR reason I've never wanted any other program.... until now.
 
I'm not trying to convince those that like X1 better that they shouldn't (and I don't think that's really Keni's objective either)...  but I do think it's necessary that everyone's voice be heard.

newkulturstudios


I don't know, I think Keni's perfectly justified in relaying his opinion and trying to shed light on these issues so that everyone who's new to Sonar can see what the possibilities are; so the veterans new only to X1 (who may not have had the opportunity to test everything out yet) can see where the differences are, and so Cakewalk can see where their long-time income demographic is hoping to go.  Maybe this following statement is conjecture, but it seems to me that with X1, they (read: "Roland"?) are trying to expand their demographic (get new customers) by making Sonar more like certain other programs that operate this way (PT, for example), but really, isn't this just flooding the market with "6 one way, half a dozen the other" programs?  Keep what makes you stand out from the crowd!!!  If you want to add additional OPTIONS to be competitive, fine.  But don't throw out the old and jump off a bridge just cuz your rival software did it.  Listen to the bulk of your demographic.   ...In order for them to do that, we need to speak up.
 
I completely agree with Keni on all points.  I've been using Cakewalk since Pro Audio 6, and I LOVED the fact that from Sonar 1 up until X1 we didn't have to perform other keystrokes, mouse clicks, or any other workaround to get done what we needed to.  One of the reasons that I HATE certain competitor softwares is because of this "Edit Filter" type B.S.  It really WAS much quicker not to have any filter, and just allow all operations at any time.  I mean, c'mon - wasn't that more of a "Smart Tool" than now?  ...Shift+right click, then make adjustments, or move the mouse all the way to the left side of the screen to adjust the Edit Filter, then back over to the other side to select the envelope (after you can find which one it is), then start moving the envelope...  What the hell kind of workflow is THAT???  Workflow was one of Sonar's main selling points before, and quite frankly, a MAJOR reason I've never wanted any other program.... until now.
 
I'm not trying to convince those that like X1 better that they shouldn't (and I don't think that's really Keni's objective either)...  but I do think it's necessary that everyone's voice be heard.

Thanks for understanding... I too am reading too much "Roland influence" here and I hope I'm wrong...  I have nothing against Roland and I own a number of pieces of their gear... But this software became what it is by being special... I hope we don't lose that.

I'm not trying to convinve anyone which way is better... only not to give up one for the other... have both! That has always been the Cakewalk way!

Keni

Keni, well said and thanks for not taking up my somewhat hot-under-the-collar reply and turning it into a fight, which was not the intention and is certainly not necessary or helpful under the circumstances - though there's a lot of it going on it seems. 

Just to be clear, I am absolutely not in the 'shoot-the-messenger' camp or the 'leave our happy thread alone' camp - although I don't think it's particularly helpful for people to throw those accusations around either. I haven't had a lot of time to break in X1 yet and I'm sure there will be things that bother me, hopefully not as much as they do you, but we'll see. 

I do fully support your right to vent a little and add your voice to what hopefully on some level is still a constructive discussion about how the software can better serve all of our needs and workflow habits. I just find that there's a lot of negativity and antagonism and in some cases a very kneejerk sarcastic response that can come from both 'camps' and it does nothing to further that process, and much to hinder it. Not to accuse you specifically of doing that, but I do hope we can gently steer the boat back towards calmer waters and more constructive discussion. 

I get the emotional intensity of your situation and I know that it stems from a long and fruitful relationship with Sonar and Cakewalk which you now feel is going off the rails. But I do hope you can keep enough perspective on this not to let it affect your health - prolonged stress and anger have very negative effects. Speaking personally I find when I get deeply worked up over something like this it can really mess up my whole system, whereas if I can keep connected to a glass-at-least-half-full outlook everything else seems to flow much better too. Just sayin'...

double post ? edit 

subtlearts

  Speaking personally I find when I get deeply worked up over something like this it can really mess up my whole system, whereas if I can keep connected to a glass-at-least-half-full outlook everything else seems to flow much better too. Just sayin'...

I almost forgot...

For me the glass is neither half-empty or half-full... It's simply half a glass... I can live with that... I endeavor to neither cloud my thoughts with the negative nor blind it with the positive... Simply accept it as is...

...and there is my dilemma! I can live with extras that I don't use, but I can't work with things I can't see... Imagine working on a tune without being able to hear it. Are we Beethoven? I wish! (Tho I'm sure he wished he could still hear!) ;-)

Keni

Please! No lanes! (That's what it sounds like)... If they really believe this new method so superior, either add an "all Mode to the Filter or a bypass to it's use....

that would be a step forward for me...

More commands for selecting/adjusting? Always welcome (additions, not replacements) as well as show all/hide all

the ability to enable disable an envelope without delting it? Precious! I've wanted that for a long time!

If Lanes were to be added, please make it optional!

Keni

newkulturstudios

Keni


Please! No lanes! (That's what it sounds like)... If they really believe this new method so superior, either add an "all Mode to the Filter or a bypass to it's use....

that would be a step forward for me...

More commands for selecting/adjusting? Always welcome (additions, not replacements) as well as show all/hide all

the ability to enable disable an envelope without delting it? Precious! I've wanted that for a long time!

If Lanes were to be added, please make it optional!

Keni

I'd be down with these suggestions.

An "All" mode for the filter would most probably be the easiest to implement code-wise, as opposedto a global option that would change the layout.  Whereas now, the filter turnsoff one thing and turn on another, this "All" mode could just enable all the options.  SOUNDS like an easy implementation to the layman, and would appease all users.
 
Optional lanes for envelopes - such as a toggle button as the tracks have for clips?  Sounds good to me!  ...And the bakers should already know HOW to do this, since they do it with clips.
 
The other sugg's - cool too!

I still don't personally understand why the keybindings that have been in place for years needed to be changed for X1, but I'd be much more willing to relearn everything I've spent the past (i dunno...) 10+ yrs learning, if these options were added to X2 (or even better, though I know it wouldn't happen, to the next update to X1).

I say again tho... Please... No Lanes! (Or make it an option)... Lanes are so very difficult to do accurate editing in... Try editing the midi lanes we currently have when suing a guitar synth in mono mode... Dealing with the lane's size to enable precision? Non-existent... Usability? Horrible... Please... It's great the way it is if we could only opt for an ALL mode so that the filter is essentially bypassed and everything is visible and active at the same time...

any additional tools? A dropdown list so that you can select which to bring to the top in case of overlay difficulty? C'mon... There's plenty of solutions without making the workflow slower/harder...

Keni

I do think most of the new keybindings make more sense than the previous versions: B for Browser or Shift+B for Busses, and "key clusters" like the D variants for the multi-Dock.    But F12?   Nah, not so much.   ;)     But I'm not a big function key fan, at least not for day-to-day work.  They're not so bad for things like opening the Help.
 
 
 
PS...   Keni, I just noticed your Joined date.    :)

I agree.   It's really down to memorizing the shortcuts more than anything, though I'm not 100% there yet myself.   But I should remap a few, like Snap, because I just can't seem to use the function keys with any dexterity... they just don't "feel" right.  I guess at some point I need to spend some time figuring out what other combinations might be more intuitive for me. 
 
'Till next time bro.     ;-)
 

GlennP

javahut  It's tough to tweak envelopes in cases where multiple envelopes need to be tweaked relative to each other. Why do all other envelopes have to basically disappear color wise in order to highlight and bring forward the envelope being worked on? It makes no sense. Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. 

How can I find out if this will be fixed in X2? Because if it remains the same I’m looking for a new DAW, and I’ve been with Cake since CW-Pro-Audio 4.5
Ghosted envelopes are a bad joke! Who ever came up with this idea has never tried to use a plugin like “Ozone” with multiple envelopes


X1, X1b, X1c, X1d…. I’m tired of paying CW money to be a beta tester!  I don’t want to get R.S.I.

Looks like X2 will have automation lanes available to use.  That will be a big improvement if it is implemented well.