PLEASE!!! BRING BACK THE COLORS TO ALL AUTOMATION ENVELOPES!!!...

I miss the show/hide all envelopes. I miss being able to see what all envelopes are doing at any given time. It's tough to tweak envelopes in cases where multiple envelopes need to be tweaked relative to each other. Why do all other envelopes have to basically disappear color wise in order to highlight and bring forward the envelope being worked on? It makes no sense.
 
Example... I was trying to find the track and it's automation that was responsible for some cool delay effects so I could repeat and enhance it. The track was orignally created in 8.5, where I could "show all envelopes" and quickly find the source of the sound. In X1... I have yet to figure out how to see all the automation envelopes clearly at once. So I spent about 5-10 minutes trying to find the track and automation... only to have to give up so I could move on, and tell my musical partner I'd look for it later... because I couldn't find it among all the other tracks and the invisible automation envelopes.
 
Whomever thought of this new automation envelope scheme clearly doesn't extensively use automation envelopes. We need to be able to see all of them at once!!!
 
Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. Just bold the selected envelope for editing and bring it to the front of all the other envelopes. But don't make all the other envelopes basically invisible and mono toned!!!
 
Please, Cakewalk... make this one adjustment. Everything else about X1 I can live with or even like the new changes. This invisble automation envelope thing is almost a deal breaker... and entirely NOT USEFUL. Bring back the colors to all automation envelopes, along with the show/hide all envelopes, and even the ability to show/hide individual envelopes.
 

I can't believe that no one cares that you basically can no longer see but one automation envelope at a time in any single track, and it doesn't affect your workflow. This just seems like so much less functionality than 8.5's automation envelopes. How can only seeing one envelope at a time improve workflow? It's so ridiculous as to be unbelievable that this is deemed to be better than being able to plainly see and grab any envelope you want because each envelope has it's own color that doesn't disappear! What a novel idea!!!

EDIT: I misinterpreted the OP's problem/concern so I am replacing my original post.
 
I'm not sure I agree with going back to the old way, as it had it's own set of problems - however if that is the easiest fix then sure, it's better than what we have in X1!
 
I would much prefer automation lanes myself.

javahut - I agree with you.  I've got "display ghosted data" on and if the envelope is not selected you can hardly see it.  the background of the track needs to be lighter or the intensity of the non selected envelope line needs to be brighter.

I am in full agreement with the OP... I've tried out X1 on my secondary DAW... the changes made in the automation turned me off big time...

I'm thankful that the OP has been able to succinctly put my frustration into words...

As I've said in other threads - I like having as much access to the highest amount of information possible when working on my projects...

Plus it looks cool when seeing every bit of automation displayed in all its multi-colored glory lol

javahut

Whomever thought of this new automation envelope scheme clearly doesn't extensively use automation envelopes. We need to be able to see all of them at once!!!
 

 
 

That's what I've said in the past. It has been obvious from Sonar 2.2 that Cakewalk coders don't use synth automation and don't edit the envelopes in any great detail. If they did, the whole automation system would have been improved at Sonar 3. The bug with a selected envelope loosing focus whould have been nailed along time ago. Instead, I'm left with a buggy automation in Sonar 8.5.3 and possibly face to deal with more frustration in X1 (if I buy it).

I'm writing this critique as I use automation exensively and it is essenatial to me that it is well implemented.

Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. Just bold the selected envelope for editing and bring it to the front of all the other envelopes. But don't make all the other envelopes basically invisible and mono toned!!!

EXACTLY ! This is how it's done in Sonar 8.5.3, except we have a bug there, don't we, which renders the whole envelope/node selection process as difficult and workflow destroying as can be.

I have asked CW to revert back to the 8.5 track envelope management; this new thang is brain damage.

Another example of the "Clever Stupidity" run rampent in SX.

Color differences provide easy access and improved productivity. We have researched this for more than a hundred years. And yet, it was decided making things look "less cluttered" was more important than getting things done quickly.

10 years of slow but reasonable improvement abandoned for less clutter. And more useless space for the larger monitors that most users do not have. Especially when many users are moving to laptops.

No doubt next year will bring more of the same.

My dissapointment runs deep. Cuz instead of fixing all the bits in s8.5 the CW dudes decided to start over with the ribbon and one color and wasted space and lots of bugs and reduced prices and a clear sense of cleverness instead of usefullness.


What a world. What a world.

javahut


I miss the show/hide all envelopes. I miss being able to see what all envelopes are doing at any given time. It's tough to tweak envelopes in cases where multiple envelopes need to be tweaked relative to each other. Why do all other envelopes have to basically disappear color wise in order to highlight and bring forward the envelope being worked on? It makes no sense.
 
Example... I was trying to find the track and it's automation that was responsible for some cool delay effects so I could repeat and enhance it. The track was orignally created in 8.5, where I could "show all envelopes" and quickly find the source of the sound. In X1... I have yet to figure out how to see all the automation envelopes clearly at once. So I spent about 5-10 minutes trying to find the track and automation... only to have to give up so I could move on, and tell my musical partner I'd look for it later... because I couldn't find it among all the other tracks and the invisible automation envelopes.
 
Whomever thought of this new automation envelope scheme clearly doesn't extensively use automation envelopes. We need to be able to see all of them at once!!!
 
Simple fix... just leave all the envelopes in their specific colors... no need to make them a near invisible black when they're not selected for editing. Just bold the selected envelope for editing and bring it to the front of all the other envelopes. But don't make all the other envelopes basically invisible and mono toned!!!
 
Please, Cakewalk... make this one adjustment. Everything else about X1 I can live with or even like the new changes. This invisble automation envelope thing is almost a deal breaker... and entirely NOT USEFUL. Bring back the colors to all automation envelopes, along with the show/hide all envelopes, and even the ability to show/hide individual envelopes.
 

I couldn't agree with you more... I really do NOT like the new implementation... It's slower for me to work with, I can't tell one envelope from another until I activate it (select).... this is all so counter productive for me I can't beleive anyone really finds this better. I can understand that people want an easier way of being able to select their envelopes for editing as it is sometimes hard to click on the correct one... But this ain't it! Previuously I simply hid all envelopes except the one I wish to grab if there was an issue such as one on top of another.... But I don't run into that very often so it's need is far less than the basic editing itself which is now a true pain!

It doesn't appear they're ready to change this behavior either.... so it makes me sad as I'm gonna have to live with this for a while... until either they change it, or I find another program..... I never thought I'd be looking for one as I've loved Sonar all these years....

Keni

Pardon my previous post where I vented about other issues with the envelopes...

But I do agree that the common use of black when not selected is very annoying.... Always guessing which is which if they happen to be similar at the moment...

I guess they thought of it as if it's freeze where they use the common color to denote freezing...

That's part of my other problem with them... I don't want them frozen... I want them all active (I know it's only7 visual, but it then takes more "work" to unfreeze them (select)...

As to lanes? that's even worse for me... One of my pet peeves with many other programs...

ProjectM


I hear ya Keni, being able to have all the envelopes active at the same time would be good considering that many Sonar users prefer to work with envelopes in that way. I don't know how hard it would be, but having it as a user option would be nice. I wouldn't mind being able to toggle between the new way and the old way, with a key command maybe. Have anyone posted a feature request on this?

Thanks Pro...

I couldn't agree more. I would love to see the current system fixed, and made an option... I personally would quickly choose the option of the all-live version... there by also removing the use of the Edit Filter so I could go back and forth from envelopes to clips with nothing in between... yet still leave the current system (fixed, of course) for those who pre4fer it and/or the times even I might find an occasional use for it...

I think I placed some sort of request regarding this issue... I don't recall it's (the post) exact nature... For me, anytime they come up with new alternatives, they should be handled as such... Alternatives... not replacements! ;-)

Keni

I remain extremely unhappy with the Edit Filter approach and it's current implimentation... I have more trouble editing in X1 than I did in Sonar 5 let alone 8.5.3

Working in X1b is still mostly a nightmare for me... and it's not a matter of stability... It's the crazy choices they made thinking to be improvements!

Keni

You can change the clips area background to something lighter and the envelopes show up nicely, makes a big difference. preferences -> colors -> Track View -> Track View Clips Pane Background. Simple fix, helps a lot. 

EDIT - and, in case anyone's missed this which it seems that some have, it really is very easy to switch between envelopes - just shift-click on the one you want to edit. I know, that's one click more than before but honestly for me the benefit outweighs the cost - I found automation really annoying to deal with before. 

That said, I'm in favor of making it an option to go back to the old way, and/or other improvements up to and including a lanes-based approach. But I think it would be unfortunate to throw out the baby with the bathwater here - for me and for a number of others, the Edit Filter is a clear improvement. BUT only after I made the background light enough to see the darkened envelopes. It really helped, I hope it might help others having trouble.

They're not the same colour, they're just darkened versions of their actual colours. Someone else (I think it was Undertow?) suggested a selectable darkening amount, the default is a bit much, I agree, close to all the same. Personally if I get a bunch of automation lines going at once the colours don't help me so much anyway, I can't remember which was which, but at least it's something to go on. 

It'd be nice if they would show the control names with a mouseover (with a half-second delay or so), as it is you have to actually shift-click to select one in order to get a readout of what it's controlling. 

...wicked


I predict we'll end up with both. Reaper has it where you can have lanes or collapse them into the track, which seems so stupidly obvious that I'm sure all DAWs will move this way.

Lanes aren't bad, but can get pretty real estate greedy quickly. Some kind of way to manage the lanes to hide stuff you need visible seems best.

Agreed. Reaper's approach is mostly excellent. Noel wasn't very positive about lanes in another thread - not that he objected to them, but in terms of the dev cost as against other things that need doing. So my hunch (hope) is that they'll shoehorn the old way back in as a selectable behaviour and then try to improve the existing Edit Filter functionality. 


However, if they've changed their minds and are working away at lanes for X2, so much the better.